Canucks Management & Ownership Discussion | Part 25

[y2kcanucks]

In the short term and long term this team Is going no where if it's best player are players drafted in the 90s

Is this the one point you remain stuck on now?

Benning has been the GM of this team for just over 2 years now and has done nothing to change this fact.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Is Granlund capped as the player you think he is? What if he's as good as Markus Kruger is for the Hawks in a couple seasons?

its crazy that Corrado Forsling Shinkaruk Lack Kassian get this value status around here but Granlund Pedan Etem Baertschi are bad moves until they prove they aren't in the case of Sven.

Our scouting staff is one I'm confident in and the lists of players that the organization has walked away from is dismal. McCann is the only one i think we will regret so far amongst a lot of moving parts. What suggests that Forsling is any better than MA Gragnani or even a producer but dismal defensive player in Y.Weber Schultz or Clendening who tore apart the AHL a similar and tougher league for defenders who won't have the time and space of big rinks?

You're confident in a scouting staff that didn't realize Clendening couldn't skate?

 

[sting101]

That's what happens when your management A) relies on mediocre players to get you to the playoffs and B) doesn't build sufficient depth to allow your team to recover from the same kind of injuries that affect every single team in the league.

nobody gifts you young players you can win with?

The cap space argument is gaining momentum with players like Teravainen Crouse etc. Problem is the Vancouver marketplace isn't going to stand for that. at this point Benning has no choice but to do what ownership wants and thats a competitive team spending to or near the cap. almost half our cap space is tied up in the Sedin"s Eriksson Miller Edler and Tanev. 4/5ths of which likely have no impact on our next run of success towards a contender.

 

[y2kcanucks]

nobody gifts you young players you can win with?

The cap space argument is gaining momentum with players like Teravainen Crouse etc. Problem is the Vancouver marketplace isn't going to stand for that. at this point Benning has no choice but to do what ownership wants and thats a competitive team spending to or near the cap. almost half our cap space is tied up in the Sedin"s Eriksson Miller Edler and Tanev. 4/5ths of which likely have no impact on our next run of success towards a contender.

Source? Or is this just a blind cop out?

I think the Vancouver marketplace would be very excited to acquire a top prospect by taking on another team's cap dump.

But no, you're right. This marketplace won't stand for it. I mean, we all remember the huge uproar when we took on the Steven Reinprecht cap dump to acquire Christian Ehrhoff.

Hmm...maybe if this idiot GM didn't waste so much cap space on useless players he could afford to take on a cap dump for one useless player and bring in another team's top prospect. Sounds like a better idea than handcuffing yourself with zero incentive. Only problem is this idiot GM actually thinks the players he's handcuffing himself with are good players. That should scare you.

 

[sting101]

You're confident in a scouting staff that didn't realize Clendening couldn't skate?

Clendening at one point was a better prospect than the HF lovechild Forsling.

His transitional smoothness in his skating is a huge problem but he's still young enough he could be a very useful player with marked improvement. He has talents you can't teach and if he can ever be reliable defensively you could have a PP point producer for peanuts. 59pts in 74 games at the AHL level for a 21 yr old is nothing to scoff at. He's 5 months older than Corrado (the one that got away) 1pt in 18 playoff games and not gritty.

 

[Kickassguy]

nobody gifts you young players you can win with?

The cap space argument is gaining momentum with players like Teravainen Crouse etc. Problem is the Vancouver marketplace isn't going to stand for that. at this point Benning has no choice but to do what ownership wants and thats a competitive team spending to or near the cap. almost half our cap space is tied up in the Sedin"s Eriksson Miller Edler and Tanev. 4/5ths of which likely have no impact on our next run of success towards a contender.

What exactly won't the Vancouver marketplace stand for? It already *isn't* standing for what was supposed to be a competitive team last year.

They didn't stand for being presented with a team that was posited by management as "being competitive" last year and it showed in the attendance figures.

If the team is going to rebuild, at least there's hope that it'll start winning again in a few years and bring fans back.

Embracing mediocrity under the guise of trying to stay competitive will lead to the same type of poor attendance, but without the promise of it improving via Ws down the road.

 

[sting101]

Source? Or is this just a blind cop out?

I think the Vancouver marketplace would be very excited to acquire a top prospect by taking on another team's cap dump.

But no, you're right. This marketplace won't stand for it. I mean, we all remember the huge uproar when we took on the Steven Reinprecht cap dump to acquire Christian Ehrhoff.

Hmm...maybe if this idiot GM didn't waste so much cap space on useless players he could afford to take on a cap dump for one useless player and bring in another team's top prospect. Sounds like a better idea than handcuffing yourself with zero incentive. Only problem is this idiot GM actually thinks the players he's handcuffing himself with are good players. That should scare you.

"Cop Out" in all the time you dedicate to the hatred of this management ownership group you haven't read enough to know that Aquilini isn't ready to throw in the towel with Henrik and Daniel still here?

you know the way you descibe Benning is what makes you look bad. its a bias the minute you call a millionaire executive former professional hockey player with over 20 yrs experience a Stanley Cup and a darling of the media a complete idiot.

you just made a sound point about why wouldn't they try harder to at least every season have a buffer for such moves for the reasons mentioned but you are having a tough time deciphering between your best desires (tear down rebuild)and the retool that management is attempting.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Clendening at one point was a better prospect than the HF lovechild Forsling.

His transitional smoothness in his skating is a huge problem but he's still young enough he could be a very useful player with marked improvement. He has talents you can't teach and if he can ever be reliable defensively you could have a PP point producer for peanuts. 59pts in 74 games at the AHL level for a 21 yr old is nothing to scoff at. He's 5 months older than Corrado (the one that got away) 1pt in 18 playoff games and not gritty.

They dumped him for nothing because he couldn't skate. You would expect that would be one of the easiest things that a scout could determine. The fact they didn't is very concerning. And for some reason you trust them?

 

[y2kcanucks]

"Cop Out" in all the time you dedicate to the hatred of this management ownership group you haven't read enough to know that Aquilini isn't ready to throw in the towel with Henrik and Daniel still here?

you know the way you descibe Benning is what makes you look bad. its a bias the minute you call a millionaire executive former professional hockey player with over 20 yrs experience a Stanley Cup and a darling of the media a complete idiot.

you just made a sound point about why wouldn't they try harder to at least every season have a buffer for such moves for the reasons mentioned but you are having a tough time deciphering between your best desires (tear down rebuild)and the retool that management is attempting.

There is no bias. I have zero reason to be biased against Jim Benning. I don't know him personally, I have no personal problem with him as a human being. I hate him as the GM of this hockey team and that's based on everything he's done in that role. So again, there's no bias. Just an utter dislike for the moves he's made.

And if you look around the league and in the media, outside of Vancouver he's being mocked for the things he does. Whether it's needing help from the league to name his opening day roster because he doesn't know how to be cap compliant, to losing a young defenseman to waivers because he didn't understand the IR rules, to losing every trade he makes, to handing out awful contracts to veterans.

Jim Benning is an absolute joke of a General Manager. I couldn't care less about his tenure in the old boys club, or the fact that he is a former player. That doesn't mean he's a good General Manager. Then again, coming from someone who thinks hits and blocked shots mean you are a great defensive defenseman I'm not surprised this point is lost.

 

[RobertKron]

Clendening at one point was a better prospect than the HF lovechild Forsling.

His transitional smoothness in his skating is a huge problem but he's still young enough he could be a very useful player with marked improvement. He has talents you can't teach and if he can ever be reliable defensively you could have a PP point producer for peanuts. 59pts in 74 games at the AHL level for a 21 yr old is nothing to scoff at. He's 5 months older than Corrado (the one that got away) 1pt in 18 playoff games and not gritty.

...but in like three months he forgot how to skate?

 

[The Drop]

"Cop Out" in all the time you dedicate to the hatred of this management ownership group you haven't read enough to know that Aquilini isn't ready to throw in the towel with Henrik and Daniel still here?

you know the way you descibe Benning is what makes you look bad. its a bias the minute you call a millionaire executive former professional hockey player with over 20 yrs experience a Stanley Cup and a darling of the media a complete idiot.

you just made a sound point about why wouldn't they try harder to at least every season have a buffer for such moves for the reasons mentioned but you are having a tough time deciphering between your best desires (tear down rebuild)and the retool that management is attempting.

"Darling of the media" because he's an idiot.

That paragraph is baffling to me. I can't believe someone respects him that much. None of that makes him intelligent. Most effective GMs have some type of degree in law or some type of formal education. I don't see that with Benning.

His horrible interviews aside, his personnel and roster moves have been questionable at best.

 

[DL44]

They dumped him for nothing because he couldn't skate. You would expect that would be one of the easiest things that a scout could determine. The fact they didn't is very concerning. And for some reason you trust them?

Forsling dropped to the 5th round cuz he couldn't skate...
Traded for another who also could not skate.. logic used: filling the age gap...

 

[The Drop]

...but in like three months he forgot how to skate?

And was on waivers

 

[The Drop]

Forsling dropped to the 5th round cuz he couldn't skate...
Traded for another who also could not skate.. logic used: filling the age gap...

The troubling thing is that they moved him after he was noticed at the WJC.

 

[RobertKron]

Was Clendenning in some kind of horrible accident? Injured at war? Rapid-onset degenerative disease? The team obviously didn't go public because they wanted to respect his privacy.

Could someone clear this up for me so I can get some rubber wristbands made up for the cause? #ClendeningStrong #Pray4Clendening

 

[RobertKron]

The troubling thing is that they moved him after he was noticed at the WJC.

They needed to fill a quota of bad defensemen and Forsling had just shown himself no longer able to adequately fill the role.

 

[DL44]

The troubling thing is that they moved him after he was noticed at the WJC.

But they knew what he was.
They scouted him.. they drafted him.. they followed him..
They determined he wasn't worth keeping and used him to get a more advanced prospect that filled an immediate need...

If you remember it was after Hamhuis was injured and we couldn't transition the puck if our life depended on it...
Clendening came in and had a good honeymoon 9 game run where his passing ability shined thru, and looked like he was gonna be a decent pick up... but then his warts started to shine as well.

Forsling had a good tourney at the WJr's which got everyone excited.. but also remember in the next one where he was an year older and expected to be even more dominant than the previous year... laid an egg. (NO ONE talks about that one, eh)
Kinda supporting maybe a little too much HF hype was going his way.

Time will tell if he'll become an NHLer... odds are against him.. but he has a chance.

 

[Hit the post]

But they knew what he was.
They scouted him.. they drafted him.. they followed him..

see: Clendenning

Who was scouting him? Ray Charles?

 

[FroshaugFan2]

But they knew what he was.
They scouted him.. they drafted him.. they followed him..
They determined he wasn't worth keeping and used him to get a more advanced prospect that filled an immediate need...

If you remember it was after Hamhuis was injured and we couldn't transition the puck if our life depended on it...
Clendening came in and had a good honeymoon 9 game run where his passing ability shined thru, and looked like he was gonna be a decent pick up... but then his warts started to shine as well.

Forsling had a good tourney at the WJr's which got everyone excited.. but also remember in the next one where he was an year older and expected to be even more dominant than the previous year... laid an egg. (NO ONE talks about that one, eh)
Kinda supporting maybe a little too much HF hype was going his way.

Time will tell if he'll become an NHLer... odds are against him.. but he has a chance.

The Canucks had one of the best AHL defencemen at the time they traded for Clendening. Instead of trying Sanguinetti for even one game the Canucks traded for a comparable talent with much worse skating. It was a bizarre move short term and long term.

Forsling was first in goals amongst dmen at the WJC last year and seventh in points. Unlike most for Sweden's defence he didn't look lost in his own zone. He was named the Swedish Junior player of the year last season, so it's not just HF hyping him.

 

[iloveloov*]

I have no dog in this fight but people here have been insulting Benning because of the way he sounds in interviews from the beginning of his tenure in Vancouver. The anger started with the decision not to re-build and Benning became the scapegoat who took the brunt of that because of his job title. Then after Benning was hired every move he made that didn't align with a re-build just increased the anger until the insults became a meme in the online hockeysphere. Just be honest guys, you didn't like him from the start because he wouldn't implement a re-build.

 

[RobertKron]

The Canucks had one of the best AHL defencemen at the time they traded for Clendening. Instead of trying Sanguinetti for even one game the Canucks traded for a comparable talent with much worse skating. It was a bizarre move short term and long term.

Forsling was first in goals amongst dmen at the WJC last year and seventh in points.

Clendening was good in the NCAA in Boston while Benning was there. The idea that he was just a convenient guy they grabbed because they desperately needed a stopgap is pretty silly. It's even more silly when you look at the clear patterns in their player acquisitions at the time.

 

[Hit the post]

Clendening was good in the NCAA in Boston while Benning was there. The idea that he was just a convenient guy they grabbed because they desperately needed a stopgap is pretty silly. It's even more silly when you look at the clear patterns in their player acquisitions at the time.

I actually prefer that than taking a guy because you scouted him extensively several years ago but never bothered to follow up on his progress since then.

 

[BROCK HUGHES]

I have no dog in this fight but people here have been insulting Benning because of the way he sounds in interviews from the beginning of his tenure in Vancouver. The anger started with the decision not to re-build and Benning became the scapegoat who took the brunt of that because of his job title. Then after Benning was hired every move he made that didn't align with a re-build just increased the anger until the insults became a meme in the online hockeysphere. Just be honest guys, you didn't like him from the start because he wouldn't implement a re-build.

Na i dont like him because there is a kid running Arizona that is killing it running a team,and Benning is just killing this team in the worst way.There has not been 1 move that Benning has made,that has made me go WOW nice one.Every move he has made with this team has me shaking my head saying wth are you doing.Until this fool is removed from this team,enjoy the bottom,cause thats where we will be.

 

[Hit the post]

There has not been 1 move that Benning has made,that has made me go WOW nice one.

Come on, be fair. I dislike the three stooges as much as anyone; but you can't say that - the Bieksa trade (yeah it didn't start off great but that was hardly Benning's fault - it was the **** move by the other GM) was more than solid.

 

[sting101]

What exactly won't the Vancouver marketplace stand for? It already *isn't* standing for what was supposed to be a competitive team last year.

They didn't stand for being presented with a team that was posited by management as "being competitive" last year and it showed in the attendance figures.

If the team is going to rebuild, at least there's hope that it'll start winning again in a few years and bring fans back.

Embracing mediocrity under the guise of trying to stay competitive will lead to the same type of poor attendance, but without the promise of it improving via Ws down the road.

sound point i concede on that statement.

its the directive of ownership that won't stand for it yet Linden last season hinted more towards rebuild