Post-Game Talk: Canucks lose to Devils 2-5 (Horvat x 2)

valkynax

The LEEDAR
Sponsor
May 19, 2011
10,007
10,730
Burnaby
What happened is expectations and pressure kicked in. Any time this core group has any pressure on them they wilt and collapse. Probably from a lack of support from the organization, but this group is not it.

Gotta ask if Miller is only a "superstar" when there are no expectations for the team to be any good. In 2021 and 2023 now we have seen the same unfocused, defensive liability, grumpy turnover machine. Hes been better since moving to the wing but still not close to last year or 2020.

Agree with most of this, also I think it was partly because the new coach bump worn out. That 10 game or so winning streak set a false bar that the team naively thought they could reach. The games that showed that, this team really wasn't that great, were dismissed for...no apparent reason.

And you know what? I'm almost 100% convinced that our meddling spoiled brat of an owner thought so too.

EDIT: correct spelling, "thought" instead of "though".
 
Last edited:

AD16

Registered User
Aug 6, 2020
72
150
Lots of soul searching by the fan base to reconcile what we’ve seen to start the season given how they played to end last year. But honestly even after Bruce took over there were plenty of games where the Canucks were just completely outclassed but managed to squeak out wins or points due to goaltending or our power play. Not happening this year.

The most logical explanation is that this team is not good, not even close. We should come to accept this and realize we won’t be competitive until drastic changes to this team are made (i.e a rebuild). The end to last year was an anomaly. While on an individual level we have talent, we lack several elements that are requisite to having a good team. Our forward group was overhyped and our defense is even worse than we had initially thought. Add to that lacklustre goaltending and we’re exactly where we should be to start the season.
 

Scorvat

Registered User
Mar 17, 2015
1,570
1,185
I so happy to hear someone other than me point this out. I started to think I'm just imagining things.


Also, Myers & OEL are not near elite shutdown pair,Demko isn't prime Patrick Roy and yea.. Miller isn't a ~100p player.

add Pettersson is obviously nowhere near the Mac or Mcdavids and is closer to kuz then a backstrom like player. Hughes is a not a top 10 dman, Boeser is a complimentary player on any line he plays on, and Garland is a first liner whose play style means he can't develop chemistry with anybody
 

Regress2TheMeme

Registered User
Mar 14, 2018
1,016
1,137
The blue line has been hit with injuries after being relatively healthy last season. With so little depth they can't afford to deal with any adversity on defense. Hughes, Myers, OEL have all missed time already. Who knows what they're playing through right now. Dermott and Poolman have been entirely removed from the equation. If everything goes right they can maybe play a passable game but they've had bad luck this year and just aren't built to overcome that.
 

PuckMunchkin

Very Nice, Very Evil!
Dec 13, 2006
12,387
10,054
Lapland
add Pettersson is obviously nowhere near the Mac or Mcdavids and is closer to kuz then a backstrom like player. Hughes is a not a top 10 dman, Boeser is a complimentary player on any line he plays on, and Garland is a first liner whose play style means he can't develop chemistry with anybody
okidoki
 
  • Like
Reactions: geebaan

Johnny Canucker

Registered User
Jan 4, 2009
17,750
6,116
When it mattered the Devils just exposed the Canucks in transition. Soaked up a little pressure and then broke out and left the Canuck defense in the dust. Devils playing in 5 man units while the Canucks reduced to individual efforts. Get those situations and, try as you might, eventually the more you try, the more things break down and the more bad things happen.

Good

Horvat -maybe reaching here but at least he scored and won some faceoffs.

Bad

Pettersson - shoddy passing and playmaking on the PP. Shots were generally wild and just became blown chances. Nothing smooth about his play right now. Trying to force plays and very much contributing to the general confusion.

Hughes - another poor effort on the PP. Frankly Rathbone looked better the other night. Him and Schenn had rough night in their end and at times left the front of net wide open

Podkolzin - got a little better in the third but way too erratic in his play. Still not in sync with anyone. Pretty much the same story with Hoglander. See the Devils playing together with one another while Podkolzin and others are not working together. Lots of people getting spotted in and out of the line up and it hard to get any continuity.

Pearson - got little better late but for the most part struggled. Getting penalties b/c his lack of speed has him reaching all the time. The days of playing that game - delay the guy with the stick- are over and Pearson hurt by that.

Joshua - maybe his poorest game to date. Looked like a minor leaguer and probably is. Struggled along the boards in every zone. If he wasn't concussed, Di Guiseppe might be a better option.


Ugly

Myers -just couldn't handle the Devils speed. Got caught flat footed too much and puck watching. Head didn't look in the game - especially early on. Stick handling also an issue. Poor back check by forwards left him trying to handle too much. But whatever he did have to handle, he did it badly. Clumsy effort

OEL - looked lost at times and not ready to play. With Myers providing huge gaps defensively. Being asked to do too much at this juncture in his career.

Others

Demko - couldn't be blamed on the goals and kept score reasonable with some good saves. However, again looked shaky with the constant looking behind for pucks leaking through.

Studnicka - thought there was a lot of stop and stop hockey (like others) and not much flow in his play. Had the one good shift where his line created chances but otherwise not noticeable. About as expected and there appears to be no deliverance in this player

Stillman - more and more looks like your time a dozen replacement player. Nothing really bad but nothing really good. Just sort of there.

Bear. - ok, moved the puck at times well and played 18 mins without any of the huge gaffes we were seeing from others. (maybe helped by match ups) Did show some willingness to move up and try to create some offense.

NJD is another team that was willing to suffer in the near term to build a good team. It takes time to gather talent and then perfect your systems. Process usually take a number of years as you gradually get consistency in your systems and start to acquire the players that further develop those systems. Another contrast that illuminates the slip shod way the Canucks have done it. Always looking for the short cut, the temporary fix. Leaves us with what we got and what we have to look forward to.

You put more effort in this post than the team did.
 

Scorvat

Registered User
Mar 17, 2015
1,570
1,185
Agree with most of this, also I think it was partly because the new coach bump worn out. That 10 game or so winning streak set a false bar that the team naively though they could reach. The games that showed that, this team really wasn't that great, were dismissed for...no apparent reason.

And you know what? I'm almost 100% convinced that our meddling spoiled brat of an owner thought so too.

selective choosing over what this team is over all the data that this group has had since 2019
 

Johnny Canucker

Registered User
Jan 4, 2009
17,750
6,116
At least our former 7th overall pick wasn’t in court this summer for sexual abuse allegations,

Our owner wasn’t accused of beating his children and not paying child support

And the first woman hire in franchise history is suing the organization.

There’s lots to be pumped about off the ice as well.
 

pitseleh

Registered User
Jul 30, 2005
19,164
2,613
Vancouver
The Canucks now sit in the 23-28 range in basically every xG metric - 5v5, 5v5 score adjusted, PP xGF, PK xGF and their goaltending has been average by GSAA (Martin above, Demko below).

Guess it wasn’t just Travis Green’s fault.
 

valkynax

The LEEDAR
Sponsor
May 19, 2011
10,007
10,730
Burnaby
selective choosing over what this team is over all the data that this group has had since 2019

Yeah, never mind the fact that the team played 50/50 most of the time, but that 10 game stretch of good luck is surely the norm!
:facepalm:
 

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
28,806
16,283
honest question for anyone born in the 70s: back in the crappy mid/late-80s era, did we think about patrik sundstrom, tony tanti, doug lidster, petri skriko, yada yada in the same way we all were so excited about petey, hughes, demko, horvat, and for a while boeser?

like, in 1988, did anyone say, "omg the canucks low key have a deep forward corps where our third line is brian bradley centering jim sandlak and rich sutter"? because that's how it feels rn.

imo our guys now are way more talented than the mid-80s guys. but hard not to see the same results and culture of non-competitiveness.
 

PuckMunchkin

Very Nice, Very Evil!
Dec 13, 2006
12,387
10,054
Lapland
honest question for anyone born in the 70s: back in the crappy mid/late-80s era, did we think about patrik sundstrom, tony tanti, doug lidster, petri skriko, yada yada in the same way we all were so excited about petey, hughes, demko, horvat, and for a while boeser?

like, in 1988, did anyone say, "omg the canucks low key have a deep forward corps where our third line is brian bradley centering jim sandlak and rich sutter"? because that's how it feels rn.

imo our guys now are way more talented than the mid-80s guys. but hard not to see the same results and culture of non-competitiveness.

I doubt the thinking was anything close to that.

The Canucks were a pesky small market team then who could not compete in wages with the big boys.
 

sting101

Registered User
Feb 8, 2012
15,895
14,764
Some things that just echo in my head after watching that game last night

Bieksa calling this team "gracious losers" is still very much the case. So many individuals just giving up on plays and playing soft in your own barn because your down by a few goals. Not a good look at all. Michayev in particular was absolutely pathetic after the 4th goal. Sure you might not come back but you still have your teammates and fans to be accountable to No? I guess not when you got contract security and others are doing the same thing?

Nico Hischier in the 2nd period interview discussing that they work from the defensive zone out and that everything starts from being good in their own zone and that they are prepared to outwork their opponents. Might just seem like lip service but when is the last time you heard anyone in this organizations core discuss that this is how they formulate their game plan? And to stay on Hischier that was a masterclass in 2 way play and effort to back it up.

Team is just a fragmented mess.
Pearson lazy play stick in the hands almost 200ft from his net...8 seconds later tic tac toe goal 1-0. Sad part is shots were 7-1 and were in a hole.

Next as the Devils start to find their legs just a ghastly lost coverage by Hughes and awful rebound by Demko and a guy who hasn't scored in almost half a season gets a tap in uncovered at the side of the net.

Then it's the death nail. Static PP looks disorganized and without urgency and the 2nd unit comes over the boards and Podkolzin for the 3rd time in 3 games hands the opposition basically a 3 on 1 which Sharangovich and Mercer play to precision

The 4th goal is just poor neutral zone gaps and the Devils catch us again making mental mistakes

It's absolutely unreal that you just have to put us on the ice and wait for the mistakes. It's as if were a junior team. Lack poise with the puck, lack the speed and strength to put teams on their heels and cycle effectively in 5 man groups, execution on scoring opportunities is squandered at alarming rates and on the defensive side it's just breakdown after breakdown that almost inevitably end up in our net.

It's so bad that even Hughes and Demko are just ghastly right now. Hughes is a coke machine and is offering up 2-3 grade A scoring chances every game. At one point in the 3rd he just blew a tire without anyone even on him at centre ice and offered up a semi breakaway chance for Sharangovich.

Just make it stop!! I can't remember a team with this kind of talent look so horrible
 

M2Beezy

Objective and Neutral Hockey Commentator
Sponsor
May 25, 2014
45,606
30,742
Some of these players are gonna sink their value this year, and then we will trade them for pennies on the dollar to see them excel somewhere else. It was painful watching no offensive threats nearly at all. Like what happend to Miller, Garland, Horvat Podkolzin, Hoglander... I know Horvat and Miller picked up two garbage points but when the game was still in reach it seemed there was NOTHING from these guys

Like werent there optimistic projections for some decent points from:
Pettersson
Miller
Brock Boeser
Horvat
Garland
Kuzmenko

And to a lesser extent but still respectable in points:
Podkolzin
Mikheyev
Hoglander
Pearson

Youd figure all those guys except maybe Podz and Hoglander should at least be 0.5 ppg which would mean a lot of goals even tho the d sucked ass

Is it a bad combo of players? Is the coach bad?

That was such a painful game last night as a fan that I gave up early in the third
 

PuckMunchkin

Very Nice, Very Evil!
Dec 13, 2006
12,387
10,054
Lapland
Like werent there optimistic projections for some decent points from:
Pettersson Point per game
Miller Almost point per game
Brock Boeser Injured (forever it seems)
Horvat Point per game
Garland He does not have a spot on our team it seems...
Kuzmenko Our 2nd best creator of offence, more points will come

Is it a bad combo of players?
Yes. Yes it is.
 

Hoglander

I'm Höglander. I can do whatever I want.
Jan 4, 2019
1,589
2,629
Midtown, New York
I had mixed feelings about bringing back BB. On 1 hand, he seemed to get the most out of the players which is why I was in favor of bringing him back. On the other hand, one could tell the team D was being propped up by good netminding (even management was saying systems needed to change), and now 10 games in and it looks like BB has lost the room - and it really isn't that surprising: the Aqua stink lingers heavily.

Not a damn thing we can do about a POS child-beating owner, but obviously the team needs a shakeup; both on and off ice. If that bastard is going to meddle though, it won't make a difference. sigh

Bruce is showing his oldschool biases where certain players can make bad mistakes or show poor effort yet never miss a shift, meanwhile other players get benched or scratched for less. You have Demko playing like one of the worst goalies in the league, and instead of putting Martin in (who has looked solid) to give the team a chance while Demko figures out his shit, BB rides the cold goalie... Too stubborn in his support of certain players, BB is making bad judgement calls and icing (given their current level of play) inferior lineups with less of a chance to win. Bench Garland, but allow Pearson/Miller to make dumb mistakes and not skate hard? Scratching Burroughs when his compete level has been among the best of the group? Scratch Rathbone after winning with him in the lineup? Bruce is as "off his game" as any of the players. Thank God it's only a 1 year extension, because it seems that he has aged out, with his dinosaur approach.

Assistant coaches really need to go. Special teams are absolute crap. The PP is 1-dimensional (only effective when the other team doesn't pressure them, giving them time and space), and the PK is way too passive and blows coverage consistently - resulting in quick and easy goals. (our PP would LOVE to play against our PK). Other teams score on our PK in a matter of seconds, while we seem more concerned with establishing possession before passing it around on the perimeter, looking for the same 3-4 predictable set-plays. Urgency just isn't there, and don't even get me started about their defensive effort while on the PP or in OT... it's like they only care about 1 end of the ice - and even that is situational depending on the score and how much time is left in the game.

Defensively, nothing has changed. Until this team collectively decides to take pride in playing a 200 foot game, it's going nowhere. Same old, same old: never pressuring the zone entries (and no difference here whether you skate like Hughes or Schenn), it's just: back-up into the default passive/coverage-blowing defensive system. Way too many opposing players are left unmolested within 10-15 feet of our net. So friggen easy to play against.

The Miller deal looks awful, he has lost a serious step. Guy skates in sand now (you would think HE was the one that had the baby in the offseason, not his wife), and his extension doesn't even kick in until next year... would have been better to let him walk for nothing (although we would probably have signed Klingberg to a longterm deal with the capspace - which isn't any better). JR said we'd be competitive in 2 years - so why the **** would they spend to the cap now, anyway? (Painted themselves in a corner by over-spending in UFA) Just spent a 2nd/5th/Myrenberg to compete now, when we are not even in their own given timeframe for competing. WTF? More like Jim Rudder(less)ford.

The on ice product, and the moves made by management... Yikes. What the hell are they doing, throwing more prospects and picks out the window? The players talked a big game in the offseason, about how they wouldn't allow a start like last year - then they go out and have a worse start (worst in the league)... so management rewards them by "bolstering" the teams' depth? Instead of saving up to get solid players (or just drafting young potentials), we are spending young assets on floundering age-gappers to fill the bottom of the lineup - when they could have simply got similar-level players from waivers. Death by a thousand papercuts.

They've made a bad cap situation worse, doubled down on a losing roster by wasting more picks, and after promising changes would be made, they virtually just committed to the same Benning-made roster.

I've seen enough; this management group is bumbling and directionless.
/rant
 
  • Like
Reactions: Iron Mike Sharpe

VanJack

Registered User
Jul 11, 2014
21,254
14,435
Something's not right with this team. Horvat is looking like 'death warmed over'.....despite a two-goal effort, there seems to me to be little passion or joy in his game. It's like coming to rink is just another tough day at the office at a job you hate.

Still early in the year, but so far the regression of Demko and Hughes is alarming. Without those two guys at the top of their games, this team is doomed. Still wondering if it's not injury related.

Goalie-watchers around the league have questioned Demko's surgery history for bad hips; and Hughes looks to me to have been rushed back from whatever injury was keeping him out. Sad to say it, but right now Rathbone is a better option on the PP than Hughes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Iron Mike Sharpe

4Twenty

Registered User
Dec 18, 2018
9,987
11,831
Some things that just echo in my head after watching that game last night

Bieksa calling this team "gracious losers" is still very much the case. So many individuals just giving up on plays and playing soft in your own barn because your down by a few goals. Not a good look at all. Michayev in particular was absolutely pathetic after the 4th goal. Sure you might not come back but you still have your teammates and fans to be accountable to No? I guess not when you got contract security and others are doing the same thing?

Nico Hischier in the 2nd period interview discussing that they work from the defensive zone out and that everything starts from being good in their own zone and that they are prepared to outwork their opponents. Might just seem like lip service but when is the last time you heard anyone in this organizations core discuss that this is how they formulate their game plan? And to stay on Hischier that was a masterclass in 2 way play and effort to back it up.

Team is just a fragmented mess.
Pearson lazy play stick in the hands almost 200ft from his net...8 seconds later tic tac toe goal 1-0. Sad part is shots were 7-1 and were in a hole.

Next as the Devils start to find their legs just a ghastly lost coverage by Hughes and awful rebound by Demko and a guy who hasn't scored in almost half a season gets a tap in uncovered at the side of the net.

Then it's the death nail. Static PP looks disorganized and without urgency and the 2nd unit comes over the boards and Podkolzin for the 3rd time in 3 games hands the opposition basically a 3 on 1 which Sharangovich and Mercer play to precision

The 4th goal is just poor neutral zone gaps and the Devils catch us again making mental mistakes

It's absolutely unreal that you just have to put us on the ice and wait for the mistakes. It's as if were a junior team. Lack poise with the puck, lack the speed and strength to put teams on their heels and cycle effectively in 5 man groups, execution on scoring opportunities is squandered at alarming rates and on the defensive side it's just breakdown after breakdown that almost inevitably end up in our net.

It's so bad that even Hughes and Demko are just ghastly right now. Hughes is a coke machine and is offering up 2-3 grade A scoring chances every game. At one point in the 3rd he just blew a tire without anyone even on him at centre ice and offered up a semi breakaway chance for Sharangovich.

Just make it stop!! I can't remember a team with this kind of talent look so horrible
Yup. Hischier’s comment about “being compact in our own zone” stood out to mr too.

And that Mikey McLeod tap in goal was the opposite of being compact. Pearson lost in the corner and behind his own net (wingers should seldom be there anyways) created the huge gap in coverage.
 

Breakers

Make Mirrored Visors Legal Again
Aug 5, 2014
21,509
19,913
Denver Colorado
I like seeing this team go up against strong even strength teams.

Shows you how far off this team is from even being competitive
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

Registered User
Oct 1, 2017
26,164
16,023
Podkolzins confidence level must be in tatters right now

Only 2 assists on the season..and that was a nasty giveaway that led to a goal last night..
 
  • Like
Reactions: geebaan

geebaan

7th round busted
Oct 27, 2012
10,231
8,810
If we keep this losing up, how long will this charade of being a playoff contender last?
 

credulous

Registered User
Nov 18, 2021
3,299
4,437
If we keep this losing up, how long will this charade of being a playoff contender last?

it's in management and the media's best interests to keep it alive as long as possible. they won't concede until the trade deadline at the earliest
 

Canuckle1970

Registered User
Mar 24, 2010
6,976
6,034
Their best game so far was Friday against Pittsburgh. Spencer Martin's play inspired confidence in a team that was on shaky ground defensively. He didn't have to be spectacular - just solid and reliable.

There are 7 new players on the team since April (with Boeser and Dermott still out), and the integration of these newbies with the "vets" hasn't been too successful, so far. Coaching? Do they need more time to gel, or is this just a bad mix of skills and temperament?

The play of Miller and Demko so far has been a major disappointment. They're not solely responsible for the losses, but if they don't return to their "normal" status soon, this season is toast.
 

tantalum

Hope for the best. Expect the worst
Sponsor
Apr 2, 2002
25,122
13,960
Missouri
Yup. Hischier’s comment about “being compact in our own zone” stood out to mr too.

And that Mikey McLeod tap in goal was the opposite of being compact. Pearson lost in the corner and behind his own net (wingers should seldom be there anyways) created the huge gap in coverage.
Yep. While we can say it was a bad rebound (it was) it doesn’t mean that puck ends up in the back of the net. There were similar bad rebounds in the New Jersey end. The difference was the Devils were in position and dealt with them accordingly.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

  • Inter Milan vs Torino
    Inter Milan vs Torino
    Wagers: 4
    Staked: $1,752.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:
  • Metz vs Lille
    Metz vs Lille
    Wagers: 2
    Staked: $220.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:
  • Cádiz vs Mallorca
    Cádiz vs Mallorca
    Wagers: 2
    Staked: $240.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:
  • Bologna vs Udinese
    Bologna vs Udinese
    Wagers: 3
    Staked: $265.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:
  • Clermont Foot vs Reims
    Clermont Foot vs Reims
    Wagers: 1
    Staked: $15.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:

Ad

Ad