Post-Game Talk: Canucks lose to Blue Jackets | 3-4 in OT (Horvat, Pettersson, Horvat)

[4Twenty]

Burroughs clearly sat because NHL coaches are too rigid in LD/RD setups on every pair.

Who else did people want scratched up front? If it was Hoglander people would be freaking as well.

Garland straight up doesn’t make sense on this roster and never did.

 

[MS]

Burroughs clearly sat because NHL coaches are too rigid in LD/RD setups on every pair.

Who else did people want scratched up front? If it was Hoglander people would be freaking as well.

Garland straight up doesn’t make sense on this roster and never did.

Boudreau even played Burroughs at LD with Myers in the last preseason game to prepare for this exact situation and he did very well, and it should have been obvious to scratch Stillman to do the same thing.

The second problem is that they seem to rate Poolman over Burroughs.

Garland fit fine when he was racking up 50 ES points last year.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Not sure why Garland was a scratch..?...Was it because Mikheyev was inserted and someone in the top 9 had to sit..?...Its very unlikely that Boudreau scratches his top 3 C's (EP,Miller,Bo).

 

[sting101]

Literally every top-9 player will have multiple 3-game stretches this year where they record 1 point. None of them will be healthy scratched.

He's hardly been terrible and removing a player of his abilities from the lineup over Joshua and Aman is absurd and decreases the team's chances of winning significantly.

It's not like his 1 goal and 4 shots in 3 games solidifies him when he's paid to score, but for purposes of this contention with BB i think he's picking on the worst of the top9 wingers (obviously Michayev not included) to this point and sending a message.

I know people are calling for Miller but there is zero chance a coach with half a brain benches a 99pt player that needs to get going, Boeser needs ice time to get going, Kuzmenko and Hoglander have outplayed Garland, Perason too even though it wouldn't surprise me if he is next after some of those 3rd period turnovers. Pod and Petey have been excellent. Horvat well that aint happening unless you want to start a MASSIVE issue.

Putting Garland on the 4th line doesn't raise and eyebrow. Yes it makes us deeper but were losing because our top9 defense and goaltending not because of our 4th line

 

[EpochLink]

Can we scratch Joshua? Guy hasn’t done shit

 

[4Twenty]

Boudreau even played Burroughs at LD with Myers in the last preseason game to prepare for this exact situation and he did very well, and it should have been obvious to scratch Stillman to do the same thing.

The second problem is that they seem to rate Poolman over Burroughs.

Garland fit fine when he was racking up 50 ES points last year.

I’m glad you called it “racking up”.

A similar small winger the team already had was doing the same thing for 20% of the salary.

he had a hot start and a nice point racking final 15. Redundant players requiring a contract too expensive for the way the roster was constructed.

I know you like defending the honour of this management but not trading Garland on top of signing Brock, Ilya, and JT has absolutely screwed the forward makeup.


They also signed Kuzmenko who’s expecting to outperform Garland for $950k this season.


You add up all these winger moves, and projecting a winger as C, and you’ve got a shit mix of forwards not set up for success.

I also just looked at Garland’s stat line from Washington. A lot of zeroes. A lot of negatives in the relative categories too.

Benching a vet and giving the opportunity to Hoglander was a reasonable move. Would it matter if they benched Joshua and gave CG those 8/9 minutes….doubt it.


I wonder if the org also wants Poolman in ahead of Burroughs. I mean they gave Poolman like 6 minutes less ice time. I hope Burr goes back in and agree with you it should be in place of Cory Stillman.

 

[MS]

It's not like his 1 goal and 4 shots in 3 games solidifies him when he's paid to score, but for purposes of this contention with BB i think he's picking on the worst of the top9 wingers (obviously Michayev not included) to this point and sending a message.

I know people are calling for Miller but there is zero chance a coach with half a brain benches a 99pt player that needs to get going, Boeser needs ice time to get going, Kuzmenko and Hoglander have outplayed Garland, Perason too even though it wouldn't surprise me if he is next after some of those 3rd period turnovers. Pod and Petey have been excellent. Horvat well that aint happening unless you want to start a MASSIVE issue.

Putting Garland on the 4th line doesn't raise and eyebrow. Yes it makes us deeper but were losing because our top9 defense and goaltending not because of our 4th line

Our problems so far this season have been :

1) Blowing 3rd period leads.
2) PK
3) Top unit PP

Garland has literally nothing to do with any of these issues. Benching him is just firing a stray shot into outer space, and making the team we're icing much worse in the process.

Obviously they aren't going to scratch Miller. But if his poor play is killing you on special teams, you remove him from special teams for the time being. If his line isn't going, you don't break up the lines that are going to try and fix him.

Like, Miller has been horrific on the PK this year. Aman seems like a guy who could PK. But instead they leave Miller there ... and he gets scored on again last night as part of the 3rd period comeback.

Coaching should be identifying issues and having a plan to fix them. Identifying what's working and leveraging that as best possible. It shouldn't be making random moves just to 'raise eyebrows'.

I’m glad you called it “racking up”.

A similar small winger the team already had was doing the same thing for 20% of the salary.

he had a hot start and a nice point racking final 15. Redundant players requiring a contract too expensive for the way the roster was constructed.

I know you like defending the honour of this management but not trading Garland on top of signing Brock, Ilya, and JT has absolutely screwed the forward makeup.


They also signed Kuzmenko who’s expecting to outperform Garland for $950k this season.


You add up all these winger moves, and projecting a winger as C, and you’ve got a shit mix of forwards not set up for success.

I also just looked at Garland’s stat line from Washington. A lot of zeroes. A lot of negatives in the relative categories too.

Benching a vet and giving the opportunity to Hoglander was a reasonable move. Would it matter if they benched Joshua and gave CG those 8/9 minutes….doubt it.

JT Miller is a C and has played C very well since being a Canuck.

We should be able to ice 3 very good scoring lines and Garland should have no problem being part of that. Unfortunately several players are playing like absolute crap right now.

 

[credulous]

i'm okay with benching garland because he hasn't been producing and who knows what goes on in the room? maybe he's got a shitty attitude or something

benching burroughs to play poolman/rush myers into the lineup is really weird though. burroughs has been on average their best defender this season. they could have pulled stillman from the lineup or sat either poolman or myers an additional game

 

[4Twenty]

Our problems so far this season have been :

1) Blowing 3rd period leads.
2) PK
3) Top unit PP

Garland has literally nothing to do with any of these issues. Benching him is just firing a stray shot into outer space, and making the team we're icing much worse in the process.

Obviously they aren't going to scratch Miller. But if his poor play is killing you on special teams, you remove him from special teams for the time being. If his line isn't going, you don't break up the lines that are going to try and fix him.

Like, Miller has been horrific on the PK this year. Aman seems like a guy who could PK. But instead they leave Miller there ... and he gets scored on again last night as part of the 3rd period comeback.

Coaching should be identifying issues and having a plan to fix them. Identifying what's working and leveraging that as best possible. It shouldn't be making random moves just to 'raise eyebrows'.



JT Miller is a C and has played C very well since being a Canuck.

We should be able to ice 3 very good scoring lines and Garland should have no problem being part of that. Unfortunately several players are playing like absolute crap right now.

Very good at racking up points yes. I don’t think he’s a very disciplined or detail oriented center and his “roving” is better suited to wing.


Much better winger imo than C. Sure the 99 points came as a C, but I think he was better as a winger.

Miller-EP-Kuz would actually be fun.

Problem is then Lazar (probably a winger too) is centering expensive wingers like Mik and Garland.

With regards to Garland he did nothing against Washington and was poor but you thought the team played well so another agree to disagree I guess.

 

[sting101]

Our problems so far this season have been :

1) Blowing 3rd period leads.
2) PK
3) Top unit PP

Garland has literally nothing to do with any of these issues. Benching him is just firing a stray shot into outer space, and making the team we're icing much worse in the process.

Obviously they aren't going to scratch Miller. But if his poor play is killing you on special teams, you remove him from special teams for the time being. If his line isn't going, you don't break up the lines that are going to try and fix him.

Like, Miller has been horrific on the PK this year. Aman seems like a guy who could PK. But instead they leave Miller there ... and he gets scored on again last night as part of the 3rd period comeback.



JT Miller is a C and has played C very well since being a Canuck.

We should be able to ice 3 very good scoring lines and Garland should have no problem being part of that. Unfortunately several players are playing like absolute crap right now.

I'm not that stuck in on this but you cant point fingers at Miller Boeser and whoever over 3 games and then dismiss Garlands small sample size.

I agree it was a bit odd and we certainly could have been better with Garland on the 4th line than that plug Joshua but this is the point of having 10 good forwards. Light a fire under their asses.

It's worked for Hoglander who has been great. Yes he still makes unforced errors but he's driving people back and working like a demon and that's what's gonna get us out of this mess.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

I could see it if Garland had been making Miller-esque sloppy plays that had contributed to some of the blown leads. In that case, sure.

But the guy literally hasn't been on the ice for an ES goal by the other team this year. He's just been 'kind of quiet'. It's absolutely ridiculous he only got a 3-game leash after the way he finished last year.

What’s frustrating is that the numbers are backing up the eye test that Garland and Burroughs are playing well right now. That the puck is in the offensive end more when they are on and we are getting more chances. While players like Miller and Boeser are bleeding chances and goals right now and the ice is tilted the wrong way when they are on. But because they are bigger name guys and make more money and put up points they get to stay in the lineup.

Burroughs should 100% be in over Poolman and Stillman right now. I don’t even think Poolman has been bad, and has been much better since his terrible preseason. Burroughs should be given every opportunity right now because of his play, and we need to see what we have here and how sustainable it is.

Yes I know numbers can be flawed in a small sample size. I’m not using any definitive statements about who is better, but who is playing better right now.

 

[sting101]

i'm okay with benching garland because he hasn't been producing and who knows what goes on in the room? maybe he's got a shitty attitude or something

benching burroughs to play poolman/rush myers into the lineup is really weird though. burroughs has been on average their best defender this season. they could have pulled stillman from the lineup or sat either poolman or myers an additional game

For Burroughs he may have needed a maintenance day. Guy was pounded in that Caps game not only took multiple hits which is no big deal but got slashed in the face and then had that idiot that slew foot him in the 3rd which at the time looked like a prime ACL tear scenario. He's been a nice story and will be back

 

[MS]

I'm not that stuck in on this but you cant point fingers at Miller Boeser and whoever over 3 games and then dismiss Garlands small sample size.

I agree it was a bit odd and we certainly could have been better with Garland on the 4th line than that plug Joshua but this is the point of having 10 good forwards. Light a fire under their asses.

It's worked for Hoglander who has been great. Yes he still makes unforced errors but he's driving people back and working like a demon and that's what's gonna get us out of this mess.

I don't think the top priority is lighting fires under asses.

The big problem in the forward group right now is that JT Miller has been absolutely f***ing abysmal. He's a turnover machine on the PP. He's getting ventilated on the PK. He's turning 64% o-zone starts into a 43% shot attempt share at ES. He's been on the ice for 12 of the 18 goals we've conceded.

The rest of the team hasn't been bad but that one line/one player is absolutely killing us. The solution is to cut Miller's icetime until he starts figuring things out, but instead they seem to be playing him more and breaking up things that were working to try and fix him. It's totally backward.

 

[Vector]

For Burroughs he may have needed a maintenance day. Guy was pounded in that Caps game not only took multiple hits which is no big deal but got slashed in the face and then had that idiot that slew foot him in the 3rd which at the time looked like a prime ACL tear scenario. He's been a nice story and will be back

That was the explanation I was hoping for from the coaching staff but haven't really got that.

 

[Nucker101]

I can’t be convinced that it made sense healthy scratching a guy who was one of your best 5v5 producers last season and was middle the pack so far this year in terms of effectiveness.

Bruce wanted to send some sort of message but was too afraid of sitting a bigger name that was more deserving to be sat so he randomly chose Garland.

Also funny how Boudreau said during pre-season that he wasn’t stuck on having 3 each of LHD/RHD in the lineup but now scratches Burroughs even though he’s been one of the better dmen on the team so far.

Bruce over thought this, plain and simple.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Very good at racking up points yes. I don’t think he’s a very disciplined or detail oriented center and his “roving” is better suited to wing.


Much better winger imo than C. Sure the 99 points came as a C, but I think he was better as a winger.

Miller-EP-Kuz would actually be fun.

Problem is then Lazar (probably a winger too) is centering expensive wingers like Mik and Garland.

With regards to Garland he did nothing against Washington and was poor but you thought the team played well so another agree to disagree I guess.

I agree with you that Miller is probably better suited for wing. The problem is our team is built around having Miller, Pettersson, and Horvat down the middle. Having Miller as a winger would mean having Lazar or Aman as a third line center and would kill having 3 scoring lines. Might see Hoglander scratched more as well.

 

[credulous]

playing miller at wing is necessary to get full value from miller but playing any three of miller, kuzmenko, boeser, mikheyev, podkolzin, garland, pearson and hoglander with lazar and aman as their centers is a ridiculous waste of talent

not signing a w/c so they could flex miller/pettersson to the wing when necessary was an unacceptable miss by management

 

[sting101]

I don't think the top priority is lighting fires under asses.

The big problem in the forward group right now is that JT Miller has been absolutely f***ing abysmal. He's a turnover machine on the PP. He's getting ventilated on the PK. He's turning 64% o-zone starts into a 43% shot attempt share at ES. He's been on the ice for 12 of the 18 goals we've conceded.

The rest of the team hasn't been bad but that one line/one player is absolutely killing us. The solution is to cut Miller's icetime until he starts figuring things out, but instead they seem to be playing him more and breaking up things that were working to try and fix him. It's totally backward.

Millers 12:52 at 5v5 was 8th amongst our forwards last game. They have been chopping his ice time. He got dropped for Horvat and responded poorly

The issue with pointing fingers at Miller is he was by far and wide our best player last year. Your not gonna do well by benching your 2nd best talent at forward who is as wired as Miller is

 

[sting101]

i disagree i think Lazar could do a good enough job with Michayev and another winger Garland/Hoglander/Pearson to put Miller on the wing with Pettersson or Horvat

The problem with that is we've played 4 games and the guy were making huge changes to accomodate was a 99py player and plus 15 at ES last year playing C.

If this is what we have to do for a 7x8 million dollar player and were going full panic desperation mode after 4 games then we should have never built the roster like this (3 C heavy) to begin with nor signed him to that type of contract.

 

[MS]

Millers 12:52 at 5v5 was 8th amongst our forwards last game. They have been chopping his ice time. He got dropped for Horvat and responded poorly

The issue with pointing fingers at Miller is he was by far and wide our best player last year. Your not gonna do well by benching your 2nd best talent at forward who is as wired as Miller is

Fair enough on the icetime. He has been dropped a bit.

I'm not saying to 100% bench him. But take him off the PK where he's struggling horribly. Drop him to the 2nd PP unit for a game or two.

He's a terrific player. He'll figure it out eventually. But right now he's an absolute anchor and they have to try and limit the damage his poor play is doing.

 

[credulous]

i disagree i think Lazar could do a good enough job with Michayev and another winger Garland/Hoglander/Pearson to put Miller on the wing with Pettersson or Horvat

lazar has had nearly a decade to secure a spot on the third line and has failed repeatedly. he's just not good enough to be more than a 4th line guy you put out to kill offense -- for and against

 

[Nucker101]

lazar has had nearly a decade to secure a spot on the third line and has failed repeatedly. he's just not good enough to be more than a 4th line guy you put out to kill offense -- for and against

Wasn’t his 4th line also hemmed in their own zone for a lot of last game too? How about we first see him drive a 4th like like Motte did before throw him into the top 9.

Baby steps.

 

[Ernie]

Millers 12:52 at 5v5 was 8th amongst our forwards last game. They have been chopping his ice time. He got dropped for Horvat and responded poorly

The issue with pointing fingers at Miller is he was by far and wide our best player last year. Your not gonna do well by benching your 2nd best talent at forward who is as wired as Miller is

Yep if Miller doesn't figure it out then might as well call the season right there. They made it clear that they signed him to be a leader.

He's one of the few who didn't throw in the towel at the beginning of last season. If we're not all in on this player then blow it up.

 

[sting101]

lazar has had nearly a decade to secure a spot on the third line and has failed repeatedly. he's just not good enough to be more than a 4th line guy you put out to kill offense -- for and against

I'm not advocating for a long term solution and i'm not sold on Aman either and that would be some poor C depth in the btm 6 for sure but we need to get a couple lines that can score going and it might be less damaging to have Lazar play up right now instead of Miller bleeding more GA while he finds his legs.

I also would be aggressive on a free agent RD. I know people are against Severson and Klngberg but i woukd be open to moving Garland for either of them RIGHT NOW and even let them walk or re trade them at the deadline if playoffs are not looking good.

I would much rather that scenario than JR going all stupid and giving up another 1st for a deadline deal and then feeling pressured to resign them at a bad number and term.

 

[4Twenty]

I agree with you that Miller is probably better suited for wing. The problem is our team is built around having Miller, Pettersson, and Horvat down the middle. Having Miller as a winger would mean having Lazar or Aman as a third line center and would kill having 3 scoring lines. Might see Hoglander scratched more as well.

I don’t see a problem with that. The 3 scoring lines isn’t effective. I’d rather have two very good ones.

I’m also lamenting the way the team is built. Have been all summer too.


Hog just got promoted by that move last night and I thought he earned it. He’s been skating well.


Podkolzin-lazar-Mikheyev would be an ok 3rd line but you can make two very good first lines with what’s left imo.


Hog-Bo-Boeser was strong in the Canadian division season.

Kuz-EP-Miller has potential to be a top 10 line.

I also think Miller’s point accumulation last season clouds the fact that a lot of it comes from unstructured cavalier play that gets lots of secondary assists.


The team needs to do something. Pettersson is going. Use him to get JT going.

Bo gets his no matter who he’s with.