Post-Game Talk: Canucks Def. Penguins | 5-1 | Pearson, Horvat (2), Kuzmenko, & Miller

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Overplaying key D men never ends well..We used to watch, like clockwork, one (or both of) Edler, Tanev go down to injury every season.

Canucks depth at D is still a work in progress..If any one of OEL,Hughes or Myers goes down to injury, its going to be a bit of a shit show.

 

[DL44]

Had the lead in 7/9 games... nice to finally hold the last two for wins.
Trending..

 

[Peen]

Overplaying key D men never ends well..We used to watch, like clockwork, one (or both of) Edler, Tanev go down to injury every season.

Canucks depth at D is still a work in progress..If any one of OEL,Hughes or Myers goes down to injury, its going to be a bit of a shit show.

pom’s right

rather see the coaching staff get more out of the depth guys

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

What do you mean by suicide?

Yes, I'm intrigued.

 

[mathonwy]

do any of you actually think the canucks are going to get new ownership?

and you think someone who buys the team is going to be aby different then aqualini?

some of you live in dream world

every owner is going to be some rich douche. wake up

But there’s always gonna be a honeymoon stage and that’s the fun time.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Would you want a surgeon who has done an operation before? Or one who watched one a couple of times when he bothered to look over his phone? No difference, right?

That's why Wayne Gretzky was such a great coach.

 

[mossey3535]

So glad that I was wrong and that Pittsburgh wasn't that big of an obstacle for us.

Unfortunately looks like the hole we've dug is pretty deep. Basically have to go on an insane streak to even things out.

 

[mathonwy]

So glad that I was wrong and that Pittsburgh wasn't that big of an obstacle for us.

Unfortunately looks like the hole we've dug is pretty deep. Basically have to go on an insane streak to even things out.

Maybe we can outscore our problems if Kuzzy goes on a heater.

 

[Hit the post]

So glad that I was wrong and that Pittsburgh wasn't that big of an obstacle for us.

Unfortunately looks like the hole we've dug is pretty deep. Basically have to go on an insane streak to even things out.

 

[MS]

So glad that I was wrong and that Pittsburgh wasn't that big of an obstacle for us.

Unfortunately looks like the hole we've dug is pretty deep. Basically have to go on an insane streak to even things out.

Weirdly it isn't all that deep.

They're essentially 3 points out of the playoffs when you correct for GP. If they can win their next couple games against weakish opposition at home, they'll be right back in a decent spot. Minnesota at 3-3-1 for 7 points in 7 games is in the 8th seed right now.

 

[Vector]

Weirdly it isn't all that deep.

They're essentially 3 points out of the playoffs when you correct for GP. If they can win their next couple games against weakish opposition at home, they'll be right back in a decent spot. Minnesota at 3-3-1 for 7 points in 7 games is in the 8th seed right now.

The actual problem is whether the Canucks can steal more wins against strong teams. There’s a lot of .500 teams coming up that I’m not sure about (Senators, Predators, Capitals, Canadiens, Sabres, & Kings). Really need to win the majority of those Games, beat up the other basement dwellers, and steal a win. Having a .500 record for November (or just under) doesn’t improve anything and really only sinks the season further.

Weird to think how important this November is for setting up the entire rest of the season.

 

[MS]

The actual problem is whether the Canucks can steal more wins against strong teams. There’s a lot of .500 teams coming up that I’m not sure about (Senators, Predators, Capitals, Canadiens, Sabres, & Kings). Really need to win the majority of those Games, beat up the other basement dwellers, and steal a win. Having a .500 record for November (or just under) doesn’t improve anything and really only sinks the season further.

Weird to think how important this November is for setting up the entire rest of the season.

Oh, no argument. This is a huge month and they have to play well.

I’m just disagreeing that they’re in a huge hole at this point. They have to play 3 points better over 73 games than they would if we’d have had an average start and were in 8th.

Somehow 5 points out at game 70 is treated as more hopeful than 3 points out at game 9.

 

[quat]

It remains insane that NHL teams never practice load management on older players like OEL and instead just run them into the ground because hockey culture says you must play every game.

This is exactly what I was going to post, so well said. It's such and obvious example of diminishing returns yet it's such a constant in the theatre of sports. I can understand it from a players perspective (even though that is still short sighted), but coaches absolutely have to manage players and their health. I have to imagine that certain sports are more designed for that kind of consideration. Baseball and soccer both come to mind.

 

[Vector]

Oh, no argument. This is a huge month and they have to play well.

I’m just disagreeing that they’re in a huge hole at this point.

Somehow 5 points out at game 70 is treated as more hopeful than 3 points out at game 9.

Yeah, they set themselves up to be in a huge hole but can quickly turn it around. Really helps that none of the other teams (apart from the Jets) have had a strong start.

The big issue with last month was blowing completely winnable games. The Blue Jackets game is particularly egregious. One thing to lose three in a row against good competition (there’s an Knights, Avs, Knights sequence at the end of November) and another to lose to bad and middling teams.

 

[canuckking1]

Don't wanna get my hopes up but peaked at the schedule, and it's extremely favourably up until the Toronto game who are off to a slow start by their standards as well.

 

[Aphid Attraction]

look at me guys i was born into a life where my parents were able to afford the most expensive sport

thus my adult opinions are better than yours check matey

You are exposing yourself too much with this post

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

That's why Wayne Gretzky was such a great coach.

Is the plural of anecdote 'data'?

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Of course doing something is relative to understanding it. And if we're talking about the actual *playing* of hockey, I'd rather have someone who played in the NHL explain to me how to improve my slapshot over someone who's never laced up skates and watched some videos on the internet.

But managing hockey and coaching hockey are just not the same as playing hockey. It's understanding people, understanding performance, understanding math. And having critical thinking ability and common sense. And people who haven't played hockey but understand these things and have experienced them in other areas of life *absolutely* may have a better grasp of hockey than some blockhead who was coached well enough and had the physical ability to play the sport at a high level.

JFresh charts are the realm of people who don't understand hockey AND don't understand math.

But again, if we solve for person A having an understanding of people, performance, math, having critical thinking ability and common sense, then it's an absolute boon to have vast experience in the craft as well, I'm sure you agree with me on this one, right?

Believe me, I know there are many people out there who had the physical gifts to play and were essentially 'programmable' enough to be successful, and no, their opinions on team building (or many other things) are not necessarily reinforced by their experience.

I liked your last sentence a lot for the record.

 

[quat]

No, of course actually doing something has nothing to do with understanding it, right?

Back to JFresh's charts, I guess.

If I understood your comment correctly, you'd still be asking OEL to play significant minutes on this team if he were making 1 million a year? After playing some of the worst hockey we've witnessed?

Whatever claim you're making with your years of playing experience just left the building.

 

[Dala]

<snip> After playing some of the worst hockey we've witnessed?

Whatever claim you're making with your years of playing experience just left the building.

Worst hockey you've witnessed, common now...

OEL with any NHL-level coach, including Bruce obviously, would have played the same amount of minutes he has so far this season even if he made $1M. Probably more minutes given many would have benched/rested Hughes earlier after injury.

No, this doesn't say OEL has been great, he hasn't. But so many D have been worse, or would have been a disaster with more minutes...

Burroughs the only D playing above expectations so far really.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

If I understood your comment correctly, you'd still be asking OEL to play significant minutes on this team if he were making 1 million a year? After playing some of the worst hockey we've witnessed?

Whatever claim you're making with your years of playing experience just left the building.

You realize I'm comparing him to what we currently have available, right?
Is everyone here really unaware of the impact of playing against top lines versus middle 6 or 4th liners?

OEL is in way over his head right now and isn't playing well. Part of why he is over his head is because our other 2 LD are basically not trusted NHlers and I mean that in the most basic way. Like Rathbone's instincts defensively have been appalling in most of his games, but were better last game.

Brisebois is not an NHLer. He got absolutely posterized for 5 alarm chances twice against Seattle.

OEL is not worse than they are, and playing without him would make things worse.

We need Hughes and Dermott to return and to dial back his minutes, but until they return we have no choice but to keep leaning on him.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

You realize I'm comparing him to what we currently have available, right?
Is everyone here really unaware of the impact of playing against top lines versus middle 6 or 4th liners?

OEL is in way over his head right now and isn't playing well. Part of why he is over his head is because our other 2 LD are basically not trusted NHlers and I mean that in the most basic way. Like Rathbone's instincts defensively have been appalling in most of his games, but were better last game.

Brisebois is not an NHLer. He got absolutely posterized for 5 alarm chances twice against Seattle.

OEL is not worse than they are, and playing without him would make things worse.

We need Hughes and Dermott to return and to dial back his minutes, but until they return we have no choice but to keep leaning on him.

I dont know how.. But I dont think you quite grasp how poorly OEL has played, no matter the competition he has faced. The difference to last year is night and day. Myers is outperforming him having to cover for his bad reads and slow foot speed in the D zone when last year it was the other way around.

 

[arttk]

You realize I'm comparing him to what we currently have available, right?
Is everyone here really unaware of the impact of playing against top lines versus middle 6 or 4th liners?

OEL is in way over his head right now and isn't playing well. Part of why he is over his head is because our other 2 LD are basically not trusted NHlers and I mean that in the most basic way. Like Rathbone's instincts defensively have been appalling in most of his games, but were better last game.

Brisebois is not an NHLer. He got absolutely posterized for 5 alarm chances twice against Seattle.

OEL is not worse than they are, and playing without him would make things worse.

We need Hughes and Dermott to return and to dial back his minutes, but until they return we have no choice but to keep leaning on him.

Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? It’s expected for 2nd paring guys to be able to fill in for the top pair when injuries happen. The reason 2nd paring guys are 2nd paring guys is because they can’t do play as the top pair for a prolong period of time and they can only do it for a short amount of time, which is exactly what OEL is being asked to do now.
You have to remember that he makes freaking 7+M. There needs to be expectation for that kind of contract and right now you are essentially arguing we should expect OEL to play only against middle 6 competition and anything more is simply unfair and asking too much.

Never mind the rest of your argument is shit because all the other parings are doing relatively ok. It’s not like every paring is sinking and we are expecting OEL to come in and save them all. Reality is that for the majority of the time he is on the ice, the paring gets stuck in their own end. It’s not like oh my he gets worn down by the 3rd period after playing 25+ min. He’s struggling regardless of what period it is.

 

[Get North]

2012 was 10 years ago. And that's the last time OEL was in the playoffs. He has 2012 speed, OEL was considered fast when Sedins were running the league. Sedins were among the slowest when they retired in 2017.

So, it's about time for OEL to decline and he'll be at 2017 Sedin pace in about 2-3 years if not there yet.

Guys like Jack Hughes, Liam Foudy, Alex Formenton, Mangiapane are setting the pace.

 

[strattonius]

2012 was 10 years ago. And that's the last time OEL was in the playoffs. He has 2012 speed, OEL was considered fast when Sedins were running the league. Sedins were among the slowest when they retired in 2017.

So, it's about time for OEL to decline and he'll be at 2017 Sedin pace in about 2-3 years if not there yet.

Guys like Jack Hughes, Liam Foudy, Alex Formenton, Mangiapane are setting the pace.

He has a very high skill level. If OEL was insulated on a good team he would still be considered a very good player- problem is, like has been said, he's used in a role here that he's not suited for. We've basically made OEL a liability because of our lack of depth and awful pro scouting with Benning.