Canucks at the Trade Deadline - Part II

[MikeK]

I'd only trade Raymond at the deadline if we're getting something like this:

Luongo
Raymond

for

Grabovski
Bozak

Oh my god that is a terrible deal for Vancouver. I actually feel sick to my stomach from reading it.

 

[King of the ES*]

Boston, New Jersey, Detroit, Carolina, Florida, Winnipeg, Nashville, Columbus, Ottawa to name a few.

You're kidding, right? You think these are serious candidates for Luongo?

Of this list, maybe Florida, maybe Detroit. Probably neither. Certainly none of the others.

EDIT: NVM, I see you were talking about Gaborik. My apologies.

 

[Dado]

Oh my god that is a terrible deal for Vancouver. I actually feel sick to my stomach from reading it.

You're talking about the Bozak/Frattin + 2nd idea?

If that's all we're getting, I think we have to investigate what Schneider would fetch.

EDIT: Ah, I see you've updated your post, nvm. Post still stands though - these are low returns - if there is a possibility Schneider fetches "much more", it should be looked at.

 

[deadinthewater]

You're kidding, right? You think these are serious candidates for Luongo?

Of this list, maybe Florida, maybe Detroit. Probably neither. Certainly none of the others.

I think he was referring to candidates for Gaborik.

 

[MikeK]

You're talking about the Bozak/Frattin + 2nd idea?

If that's all we're getting, I think we have to investigate what Schneider would fetch.

EDIT: Ah, I see you've updated your post, nvm. Post still stands though - these are low returns - if there is a possibility Schneider fetches "much more", it should be looked at.

Yeah I was replying to the Luongo,Raymond for Grabovski, Bozak proposal. My stomach is still upset over reading it.

 

[y2kcanucks]

If we were looking for a goalie, because we had goalie problems, do you REALLY think we wouldn't be laughed off the boards if we suggested moving Hansen, Lapierre and a 2nd for someone like Henrik Lundqvist?

 

[King of the ES*]

If we were looking for a goalie, because we had goalie problems, do you REALLY think we wouldn't be laughed off the boards if we suggested moving Hansen, Lapierre and a 2nd for someone like Henrik Lundqvist?

Lundqvist isn't sitting on New York's bench after requesting a trade because the younger, cheaper guy has won the job over him.

Context.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Lundqvist isn't sitting on New York's bench after requesting a trade because the younger, cheaper guy has won the job over him.

Context.

I don't see how that changes a player's value considering the Canucks have proven they're willing to hold him while other teams miss the playoffs due to not addressing their goaltending position.

 

[ItsAllPartOfThePlan]

Honestly, if it is Toronto, I want their first coming back with Gardiner. Doesn't help us to much now, but it would allow us to trade our first for someone like Gaborik

 

[Pseudonymous*]

we not getting Gabriok......insult to Daniel and henrik for someone who have a bigger cap hit.......

no it isn't. they want to win and would love to up their stats

plus i believe our GM has said in the past that they will bring in players with a higher cap hit than the sedins. i just dont think he'll be signing anyone himself for more than that

example, sundin

gaborik is much MUCH better

 

[keslerburrows]

I'd only trade Raymond at the deadline if we're getting something like this:

Luongo
Raymond

for

Grabovski
Bozak

Oh no. Getting 2 3rd line centers when Schroeder is already doing a fine job- with Raymond. If we are acquiring 1 3C then our only need is scoring wingers, and Raymond is one of our only scoring wingers!!

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

You're talking about the Bozak/Frattin + 2nd idea?

If that's all we're getting, I think we have to investigate what Schneider would fetch.

EDIT: Ah, I see you've updated your post, nvm. Post still stands though - these are low returns - if there is a possibility Schneider fetches "much more", it should be looked at.

For frame of reference, Philly fans were divided on dealing Courtier; one suggesting Schneider + 1st for Courtier + Gustafsson.

That is leaps and bounds above what the Leafs want to give up for Luongo.

 

[Proto]

You really think he's that much better than Reimer and/or Scrivens? He's got a better resume, but, for goaltenders, what does that really mean anymore? Not much.

Totally agree. I imagine LA is probably thinking about trading Quick for one of Reimer or Scrivens right now, because we all know that the best way to judge goaltenders is using exceptionally small samples of games. It's just true. As long as you state something strongly enough, it just becomes true, no matter how ridiculous it is.

 

[Proto]

Also, if the Rags dealt Gaborik, I imagine it would cost the Canucks something like 1st + roster player + good prospect. Not sure why people would expect it to be any different than every other year.

Gaborik is shooting 5-6% below his career average. He's a good bet to bounce back.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Also, if the Rags dealt Gaborik, I imagine it would cost the Canucks something like 1st + roster player + good prospect. Not sure why people would expect it to be any different than every other year.

Gaborik is shooting 5-6% below his career average. He's a good bet to bounce back.

Well someone earlier suggested giving away Luongo for scraps, and then dealing a 2nd plus a bad prospect for Gaborik. I agree with you though, the price would be high.

 

[King of the ES*]

I don't see how that changes a player's value considering the Canucks have proven they're willing to hold him while other teams miss the playoffs due to not addressing their goaltending position.

OK, but there are two problems with that:

1) They can only hold him for so long. He's not coming back next year.
2) "Holding" Luongo does not benefit the Canucks at all. You've still got all that cap space rotting away on the bench and patting people on the back.

 

[y2kcanucks]

OK, but there are two problems with that:

1) They can only hold him for so long. He's not coming back next year.
2) "Holding" Luongo does not benefit the Canucks at all. You've still got all that cap space rotting away on the bench and patting people on the back.

Cap space only has value if you use it on a player that helps us. Someone like Bozak, or re-signing the same team that has proven it can't get it done does not help us.

Luongo could come back next year, or I suggest moving Schneider if the offers for him are extremely better than for Luongo.

 

[NFITO]

When the Luongo issues first came up after the playoffs last year, I said I'd do a trade with Toronto for Colborne and Ashton alone for Luongo. Don't think many Canucks fans were okay with that (especially y2k who still continues to overrate his value), and most Leaf fans were fine with that.

For me, I saw the benefit of adding two prospects and no big contract $$ coming back... simply drop Luongo and his cap hit and add a couple prospects in return.

Right now, I don't think the Leafs even do that. Luongo's value has not increased at this point, and if that trade was an option even now, I'd still do it.

And I don't believe that either of those two prospects have much value, and Ashton especially has probably seen his stock drop from last season (while Colborne seems to be developing well), but if the Canucks could actually get a deal done clearing all of Luongo's cap space and salary and get even a couple of mid-level prospects back at this stage, it's probably a good deal for them.

I was hoping that Luongo's value would rise through the season as other teams have bigger goalie problems and Luongo's play proves his high worth. We're less than a week from the deadline and that doesn't seem to be the case.

My guess is that that Luongo is dealt in the offseason for pennies on the dollar. Likely forcing the Canucks to take back a bad contract in return.

 

[King of the ES*]

Totally agree. I imagine LA is probably thinking about trading Quick for one of Reimer or Scrivens right now, because we all know that the best way to judge goaltenders is using exceptionally small samples of games. It's just true. As long as you state something strongly enough, it just becomes true, no matter how ridiculous it is.

Why is Bryzgalov all-world on Phoenix, and all-average on Philly?

Why is Bobrovsky all-average on Philly, and all-world on Columbus?

Why is Mike Smith waived as a member of the Lightning, and all-world on Phoenix?

Why does an "unproven" guy like Corey Crawford have a .922 SVP on Chicago? Why does a journeyman like Ray Emery have a .920 SVP, while having a record of 12-0-0?

Times have changed. Gone are the days of Brodeur, Hasek, and Roy being far and away the best goaltenders in the NHL. There's simply not a lot of difference between the best and the worst goalie in today's NHL. It's all about opportunity and the team that's playing in front of you.

 

[struckmatch]

Honestly, if it is Toronto, I want their first coming back with Gardiner. Doesn't help us to much now, but it would allow us to trade our first for someone like Gaborik

The only time when Luongo could fetch a 1st round pick would have been in the summer, he's a diminishing asset and I think teams know the Canucks NEED to move him.

It's an unnecessary situation for the Canucks right now and they have no one to blame but themselves. I'm in agreement with most of the experts that the best deal the Canucks could have gotten for Luongo is behind them, and not yet to come.

If Gillis can move him for Bozak or Lupul I think he needs to pull the trigger. I think the Canucks are trying for a roster player and a pick - so they can keep the roster player and add the pick as part of a package for another acquisition, to avoid spending picks of their own at the deadline, which has burnt this organization badly in the past few years.

 

[King of the ES*]

Cap space only has value if you use it on a player that helps us. Someone like Bozak, or re-signing the same team that has proven it can't get it done does not help us.

Luongo could come back next year, or I suggest moving Schneider if the offers for him are extremely better than for Luongo.

Come on. You're not seriously suggesting that Luongo sitting on our bench adds more value than Tyler Bozak would, are you?

And yeah, I agree that trading Schneider would've been the smart thing to do, but it should've been done in 2011...or deadline day 2012, whatever. That ship has now sailed. Even Schneider would not yield what he would've 1.5 - 2 years ago.

 

[King of the ES*]

If Gillis can move him for Bozak or Lupul I think he needs to pull the trigger. I think the Canucks are trying for a roster player and a pick - so they can keep the roster player and add the pick as part of a package for another acquisition, to avoid spending picks of their own at the deadline, which has burnt this organization badly in the past few years.

Not sure where these Lupul rumors came from, but I can't imagine the Leafs trading him. Just one of those guys, like Ehrhoff was to us, who sort of inexplicably fit in with the team to complete perfection. Lupul's got 94 points in 102 games as a Leaf, tons of SOG, throws his body around, etc. Why on earth would they trade him?

 

[canucksfan]

I don't see how that changes a player's value considering the Canucks have proven they're willing to hold him while other teams miss the playoffs due to not addressing their goaltending position.

Luongo has very little value because of his salary, play in the playoffs, age, NMC not many teams need a goalie and the fact that the Nucks can't go into next season with $10 million cap hit with two goalies.

I realize you are a big Luongo fan. I like Luongo too. Gillis should have solved this problem a long time ago but he didn't.

Personally, I would trade Cory instead of Luongo.

 

[Proto]

Why is Bryzgalov all-world on Phoenix, and all-average on Philly?

Why is Bobrovsky all-average on Philly, and all-world on Columbus?

Why is Mike Smith waived as a member of the Lightning, and all-world on Phoenix?

Why does an "unproven" guy like Corey Crawford have a .922 SVP on Chicago? Why does a journeyman like Ray Emery have a .920 SVP, while having a record of 12-0-0?

Times have changed. Gone are the days of Brodeur, Hasek, and Roy being far and away the best goaltenders in the NHL. There's simply not a lot of difference between the best and the worst goalie in today's NHL. It's all about opportunity and the team that's playing in front of you.

This is a vast over-simplification. Why is Mike Smith terrible this year? If your point is that it's easier to be a goaltender on a good possession team than a bad possession team, I would say... well, yeah? But otherwise all you've really suggested (using some very small sample sizes) is that goaltending can be wildly inconsistent from year to year unless you're talking about elite netminders.

Hey, that Luongo guy has been pretty consistent, hasn't he? Huh... wonder if that would have value to anyone?

 

[Proto]

Come on. You're not seriously suggesting that Luongo sitting on our bench adds more value than Tyler Bozak would, are you?

And yeah, I agree that trading Schneider would've been the smart thing to do, but it should've been done in 2011...or deadline day 2012, whatever. That ship has now sailed. Even Schneider would not yield what he would've 1.5 - 2 years ago.

Having Luongo back-up in case of injuries provides more values than Tyler Bozak would, sure. Bozak is a wasted roster spot. There have been better players on waivers.