Confirmed with Link: Canucks Acquire Derek Dorsett

[Skriko]

This is what happens when most of your teammates play large chunks of the season with Crosby and Malkin and you don't. Completely useless/pointless stat.

I know that. Because the adjustment is done by comparing players with their teammates, most of the worst rankings on those list come from strong teams. It is easier to look bad when compared to strong teammates. Glass played with the Pittsburgh Penguins, who were a good team. But it still says something when he was worst in the entire NHL last season.

Last season Glass played mainly with Adams, Sutter, Vitale and Pyatt. Adams and Vitale bring nothing to the team. But Glass also failed to do anything with Sutter, despite Sutter being better than Adams and Vitale. The biggest indictment of Glass play, however, is that among the skaters who shared at least 100 minutes of ice time with him, every single one of them did better in terms of CF% away from Glass. And Adams, Vitale, Sutter and Pyatt were bottom-6 players. Maybe they saw some seconds with Crosby and Malkin, but those seconds didn't make their numbers.

At even strength, Glass had the third-lowest points/60 among regular forwards. He had the second-worst goals/60 among the same group. And he had the second-worst GF% on his team last year. His Corsi differential / 60 minutes of play and his fenwick differential / 60 were last among regular forwards on the team. His performance on the PK was ugly too. He was second-worst on the Penguins at limiting shots against while shorthanded.

In 2012-13 Glass played 48 games. He did 1+1 points and he has very poor possension numbers. Over the past seven seasons, Glass has a combined 41.4% Corsi Percentage for four different NHL teams. Tanner Glass numbers don't lie. I like his work ethic and toughness, but i don't like his overall game. Last word on sport listed this summer The top 10 WORST NHL Contracts Tanner Glass was in one of them.

But i have anything more to say about Tanner Glass in this Derek Dorsett topic.

 

[BobbyJazzLegs]

That's my issues with a handful of Benning moves thus far. I understand the need for an incoming GM to bring in "his" guys even if we don't feel they are tangibly better than the old guys. It's something every GM does. But I'm not sure I see the value asset wise or salary wise and not sure I understand the rush decision and lack of value received in moving bodies out.

In the end I do not believe the team is better on paper than what it ended the year at, which isn't comforting when I evaluate the new regime. I also don't believe tanking is a wise thing to do. Then again I'm also one of the misguided that believes the teams for the last 30-40 games massively underperformed and that won't happen again. We wait and see the results....does the coaching change, bounce back overcompensate for what I believe is the loss in quality on the roster.

Quite honestly, the play of Miller will either make Benning a genius or idiot. If Miller supplies his last 8 year average to below average starter quality of work it's going to be a long long year. Dorsett doesn't make or break the team any which way. Neither does Sestito or any other 4th line player in the league. Unless that 4th line player is someone like Kuznetsov or some other high potential youngster.

I think it's base to just say "his guys". Why not just guys he thinks will help this team?

 

[701]

Dorsett is a guy who you don't really want in your top-9, but if he has to play a few games there on the 3rd line it's not going to be a disaster. He's also exactly the sort of player you do want on your 4th line. Physical "character guy" role player, "team first" guy who will drop the gloves if needed...who can actually skate and play some hockey.

Dorsett as a 3rd line fixture would be a bit like Higgins as a 2nd line fixture. It probably means your team lacks depth and it's going to be a "weakness" for your team, but it's plenty "serviceable" for a stint here and there.

I recall Benning in an interview saying he brought Dorsett to the Canucks to "make them braver." It might be just as simple as that. He's a guy who is for sure *not* a fringe fourth-liner. He's a good player within that energy / team / character / payback role. The young guys and rookies won't be bullied quite so easily. Everyone plays a little bigger, so the team makes a small gain by playing a little better. He sure isn't Lucic, but you could say the concept is a viable part of the "Boston model."

 

[Scurr]

I recall Benning in an interview saying he brought Dorsett to the Canucks to "make them braver." It might be just as simple as that. He's a guy who is for sure *not* a fringe fourth-liner. He's a good player within that energy / team / character / payback role. The young guys and rookies won't be bullied quite so easily. Everyone plays a little bigger, so the team makes a small gain by playing a little better. He sure isn't Lucic, but you could say the concept is a viable part of the "Boston model."

Fear and intimidation do not exist. People on this board would not be scared of anyone in the NHL and neither would an NHL rookie. And if he is, he wasn't going to amount to anything, anyway.

I don't agree with that... but it's the general sense I get from the board. Brave bunch.

 

[Canucker]

Fear and intimidation do not exist. People on this board would not be scared of anyone in the NHL and neither would an NHL rookie. And if he is, he wasn't going to amount to anything, anyway.

I don't agree with that... but it's the general sense I get from the board. Brave bunch.

What is there to be afraid of? When you play hockey are you afraid of anyone who might be bigger and come across as a "goonish" type player?

If Phil Kessel isn't intimidated by the likes of John Scott, then I'm not sure intimidation is much of a factor in the NHL.

 

[BobbyJazzLegs]

It's not even about fighting, fear or intimidation.

It's about having confidence in the guys around you. Knowing you're playing with guys who have your back, will battle every night, and can get you out of a tough situation if it ever happens.

 

[biturbo19]

I recall Benning in an interview saying he brought Dorsett to the Canucks to "make them braver." It might be just as simple as that. He's a guy who is for sure *not* a fringe fourth-liner. He's a good player within that energy / team / character / payback role. The young guys and rookies won't be bullied quite so easily. Everyone plays a little bigger, so the team makes a small gain by playing a little better. He sure isn't Lucic, but you could say the concept is a viable part of the "Boston model."

Yeah. I think that's almost certainly the intent of bringing in Dorsett.

I think it's in large part, about the "attitude" that he brings to the room. He's a guy who seems to know his role, and embraces it. He's there to set a tone, provide "energy" when the team is flat, etc. And he can actually play some hockey in the meantime. He's a slightly better version what Dale Weise was supposed to be and occasionally showed that he could be when he didn't have delusions of personal grandeur in his head thinking he was more than he was.

I don't know that i would've dealt for Dorsett personally, but getting a player of that sort was important to Benning building a "new culture" here...and obviously Dorsett was the specific guy he wanted for that job. We'll see if it has the desired impact...and it'll be fun to watch if he can stay healthy and lay out some of his customary big hits.

 

[Scurr]

What is there to be afraid of?

Getting your clock cleaned. Everyone that's played contact hockey has seen someone laying unconscious on the ice. Having these guys tell you they're going to put your lights out and then chase you around the ice might have you thinking about something other then scoring.

When you play hockey are you afraid of anyone who might be bigger and come across as a "goonish" type player?

Yeah. I'm 6' and I played around 200lbs. I fought anyone that I thought I had to... there have been a few guys that I really hoped I didn't have to. I always liked having a goon on my team.

If Phil Kessel isn't intimidated by the likes of John Scott, then I'm not sure intimidation is much of a factor in the NHL.

John Scott is pretty easy to deal with. He's not a good enough skater to play physical in any meaningful way. When some of these guys start running around, the players want someone that can answer the bell. At least that's how it's worked on every team I've been on.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

What is there to be afraid of? When you play hockey are you afraid of anyone who might be bigger and come across as a "goonish" type player?

If Phil Kessel isn't intimidated by the likes of John Scott, then I'm not sure intimidation is much of a factor in the NHL.

Kessel was afraid why do you think he was backing up at full speed using his stick. i think the possibiliy of assault is a reason to have some fear. i imagine if a person you knew could kick you ass came up to you and told you he was going to kick you ass you would be afraid. NHL players do not scare easily but they are human.

 

[Canucker]

Getting your clock cleaned. Everyone that's played contact hockey has seen someone laying unconscious on the ice. Having these guys tell you they're going to put your lights out and then chase you around the ice might have you thinking about something other then scoring.



Yeah. I'm 6' and I played around 200lbs. I fought anyone that I thought I had to... there have been a few guys that I really hoped I didn't have to. I always liked having a goon on my team.



John Scott is pretty easy to deal with. He's not a good enough skater to play physical in any meaningful way. When some of these guys start running around, the players want someone that can answer the bell. At least that's how it's worked on every team I've been on.

I guess all I can say is that from my own perspective I don't worry about people making threats on the ice and I've never worried about getting laid out...If I feel threatened I'll warn the ref that someone may try to get stupid and take a cheap shot, and if that happens I'll respond in kind..he can either deal with it, or let me deal with it...if I have to deal with it suspensions will likely need to be handed out...and I'm not saying that because I think I'm a badass and I'll beat anyone and everyone up, it's because I'll use my stick as a weapon and do as much damage as I can with it. When it comes to cheap shots and my safety, Homey don't play. If its just your typical physical play, meh...it's fine, just have to keep your head on a swivel and know who is on the ice at all times. If you play scared you might as well not even be playing.

 

[Canucker]

Kessel was afraid why do you think he was backing up at full speed using his stick. i think the possibiliy of assault is a reason to have some fear. i imagine if a person you knew could kick you ass came up to you and told you he was going to kick you ass you would be afraid. NHL players do not scare easily but they are human.

He was backing up and using his stick because he's not an idiot...doesn't mean he's afraid of him. You can call it fear, I call it a smart reaction to an oncoming moron.

 

[biturbo19]

Fear and Intimidation are the wrong words for it. Ain't nobody in the league "afraid" of Derek Dorsett.

Call it "swagger" or "confidence" and it makes a lot more sense.

 

[ddawg1950]

Fear and Intimidation are the wrong words for it. Ain't nobody in the league "afraid" of Derek Dorsett.

Call it "swagger" or "confidence" and it makes a lot more sense.

The best team we ever had was when Kesler and Burrows had that kind of swagger.

Lots to flame them on maybe, but they drive the opposition to distraction...and scored some pretty big goals as well.

Of course Dorsett is not in their league scoring wise, but I am glad that we are going to have some of those qualities on this team again.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

just have to keep your head on a swivel and know who is on the ice at all times. If you play scared you might as well not even be playing.

You just missed a pass in your feet because your head was on a swivel a bit too much. You just missed another one because you saw Dorsett flying at you out of the corner of your eye. Turns out it was just Richardson, but it's too late, the pass is gone.

When physical, aggressive players are on the ice, it affects opposition players ability to focus on the puck. You probably wouldn't notice it as much because of how slow the game is you're plying in. Everything happens much quicker in the NHL - it's not as easy to pull your head up to see who's around you without it costing you some possession.

Think back to the Canucks against the Hawks in the playoffs in '10-11. The Hawks were pulling up at every turn in the first couple games of that series when the Canucks were running around. Patrick Kane pulled up 4 times in one shift IIRC.

 

[me2]

I recall Benning in an interview saying he brought Dorsett to the Canucks to "make them braver." It might be just as simple as that. He's a guy who is for sure *not* a fringe fourth-liner. He's a good player within that energy / team / character / payback role. The young guys and rookies won't be bullied quite so easily. Everyone plays a little bigger, so the team makes a small gain by playing a little better. He sure isn't Lucic, but you could say the concept is a viable part of the "Boston model."

So basically Weise. Why exactly is replacing Weise with Weise mkII going to make the team suddenly turn from "kittens" to "lions" if Weise mk1 didn't? Likewise if Sestito couldn't get it done I doubt replacing him with Dorsett is going to toughen up the team. It is just a nonsense. Dorsett is what he is, a solid 4th liner and nothing more, he is no magic ingredient to improve toughness, he's not even a hitting wonderkind.

Up front we added Bonino and Vey are softer than butter, they rarely hit Vey had 2 hits in 18 games and Bonino just 1/5 of Kesler's hits. Neither of them will fight, nor will Vrbata but at least he hits a little bit.

 

[biturbo19]

So basically Weise. Why exactly is replacing Weise with Weise mkII going to make the team suddenly turn from "kittens" to "lions" if Weise mk1 didn't? Likewise if Sestito couldn't get it done I doubt replacing him with Dorsett is going to toughen up the team. It is just a nonsense. Dorsett is what he is, a solid 4th liner and nothing more, he is no magic ingredient to improve toughness, he's not even a hitting wonderkind.

Up front we added Bonino and Vey are softer than butter, they rarely hit Vey had 2 hits in 18 games and Bonino just 1/5 of Kesler's hits. Neither of them will fight, nor will Vrbata but at least he hits a little bit.

It's certainly no "magic ingredient", but it's a step in the direction Benning wants to take this team. Teams don't typically get "tougher" overnight. It's a building process, and Dorsett helps, rather than hinders that.

And as i said earlier...Dorsett is a guy who seems far more willing to embrace that "role" than Weise was. Dorsett isn't a guy who is likely to have his head in the clouds thinking he's a scoring superstar and forget that his job is first and foremost, to go out there and forecheck, get in a guys face, and play responsible defensive hockey.

As far as registered "hits" as a measure of toughness, it's a completely bogus stat that means almost nothing, especially given how inconsistently it is tracked from building to building.

 

[701]

So basically Weise. Why exactly is replacing Weise with Weise mkII going to make the team suddenly turn from "kittens" to "lions" if Weise mk1 didn't? Likewise if Sestito couldn't get it done I doubt replacing him with Dorsett is going to toughen up the team. It is just a nonsense. Dorsett is what he is, a solid 4th liner and nothing more, he is no magic ingredient to improve toughness, he's not even a hitting wonderkind.

Up front we added Bonino and Vey are softer than butter, they rarely hit Vey had 2 hits in 18 games and Bonino just 1/5 of Kesler's hits. Neither of them will fight, nor will Vrbata but at least he hits a little bit.

Probably helpful to calm down and read my post again. I mentioned "small gains," but nothing about "magic ingredient," or "kittens to lions," which is just your own blustering. You build teams by improving a little bit in a lot of areas. In any case, I quoted Benning, so basically you're saying his moves and reasoning are "just a nonsense." No doubt you are much better at his job than he is. And even more awesome, you're better at it before his team has had a chance to succeed or fail.

Also I think the consensus on this board is that Dorsett is better and certainly more consistent in his role that Dale Weise is. A small gain, but a solid one. As far as Sestito goes, Dorsett is a guy you can play every night on the fourth line and be comfortable with his performances. That's the Holy Grail for fourth-liners, and it's never really applied to Sestito. In any case, I suppose they'll start off next season as the wingers on the fourth line, so we'll get to compare their work pretty soon.

 

[me2]

Probably helpful to calm down and read my post again. I mentioned "small gains," but nothing about "magic ingredient," or "kittens to lions," which is just your own blustering. You build teams by improving a little bit in a lot of areas.

Except the forwards got softer.

In any case, I quoted Benning, so basically you're saying his moves and reasoning are "just a nonsense."

Pretty much. The team got softer.

No doubt you are much better at his job than he is. And even more awesome, you're better at it before his team has had a chance to succeed or fail.

You seem butt hurt someone called out the BS.

Also I think the consensus on this board is that Dorsett is better and certainly more consistent in his role that Dale Weise is. A small gain, but a solid one.

Marginal gain more than offset by the loss of toughness losses elsewhere. Small gains, bigger losses.

As far as Sestito goes, Dorsett is a guy you can play every night on the fourth line and be comfortable with his performances. That's the Holy Grail for fourth-liners, and it's never really applied to Sestito. In any case, I suppose they'll start off next season as the wingers on the fourth line, so we'll get to compare their work pretty soon.

Not going to argue that he isn't a decent 4th, he is. To say he'll make a difference to the mentality of the team play is straight up BS.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

Pretty much. The team got softer.

How much softer? They replaced Mike 'the Beast' Santorelli with soft players, Kesler with soft players and a soft Garrison with a very physical Luca Sbisa.

Benning had no choice but to move Kesler. Where Benning had options, he didn't make the team softer.

But you outlined exactly why Dorsett was targeted. Benning added 3 skilled forwards to the top 9 to address the putrid offense. Those players aren't tough, hence the need for some sandpaper in Dorsett.

 

[Scurr]

I guess all I can say is that from my own perspective I don't worry about people making threats on the ice and I've never worried about getting laid out...If I feel threatened I'll warn the ref that someone may try to get stupid and take a cheap shot, and if that happens I'll respond in kind..he can either deal with it, or let me deal with it...if I have to deal with it suspensions will likely need to be handed out...and I'm not saying that because I think I'm a badass and I'll beat anyone and everyone up, it's because I'll use my stick as a weapon and do as much damage as I can with it. When it comes to cheap shots and my safety, Homey don't play. If its just your typical physical play, meh...it's fine, just have to keep your head on a swivel and know who is on the ice at all times. If you play scared you might as well not even be playing.

Domi told him he was going to do this. I don't think you really appreciate exactly what it feels like to have a psycho like that chase you around. Every guy in the NHL has seen something like this at some point. Every "goon" in the NHL has done something like this at some point. It doesn't sound like the hockey you play is quite the same thing.

I'm not talking about the kind of fear where you piss your pants and don't want to go out on the ice. I'm talking about the kind of fear you can't control. Maybe just a loss of concentration or a little more panic with the puck. IMO it helps to have a team that can stand up. You know it doesn't stop these things... but it helps put your mind at ease.

 

[Scurr]

Fear and Intimidation are the wrong words for it. Ain't nobody in the league "afraid" of Derek Dorsett.

Call it "swagger" or "confidence" and it makes a lot more sense.

You don't think he can make a guy fear going into the corner first? Good Canadian kid Scott Hannan answers the bell, Klein feels like his team has his back, he keeps going into the corner first. How do you ***** out in the corner when Hannan was willing to step up and fight the plug? It's a beautiful thing imo.

 

[VanJack]

We all need to remember that if the aim is to become a legitimate four-line team, you need fourth liners that can actually play! Hopefully the days of Torts' five minutes of ice-time for the fourth line are over....played his top players like rented mules and once the ice-time and injuries piled up after Christmas they were done. ..can't believe Dorsett won't bring more to the table than the previous cast of fourth-line castoffs who split their time between the press box and a seat on the pine next to the back-up goaltender.

 

[BobbyJazzLegs]

Except the forwards got softer.

Pretty much. The team got softer.

You seem butt hurt someone called out the BS.

Also I think the consensus on this board is that Dorsett is better and certainly more consistent in his role that Dale Weise is. A small gain, but a solid one.

Marginal gain more than offset by the loss of toughness losses elsewhere. Small gains, bigger losses.

Not going to argue that he isn't a decent 4th, he is. To say he'll make a difference to the mentality of the team play is straight up BS.

So if the team got softer and Benning didn't get Dorsett, what would your argument be then?

 

[Barney Gumble]

So if the team got softer and Benning didn't get Dorsett, what would your argument be then?

Still the same whether we have Dorsett or not; big question marks down the middle.

 

[701]

How much softer? They replaced Mike 'the Beast' Santorelli with soft players, Kesler with soft players and a soft Garrison with a very physical Luca Sbisa.

Benning had no choice but to move Kesler. Where Benning had options, he didn't make the team softer.

But you outlined exactly why Dorsett was targeted. Benning added 3 skilled forwards to the top 9 to address the putrid offense. Those players aren't tough, hence the need for some sandpaper in Dorsett.

You nailed it. It's funny how the ability to reason actually makes for good posts.