Post-Game Talk: Canucks 5 Oilers 2 - My kids are better than your kids!

[Ziostilon]

we just went through Pat McNally.

Boeser can't be another one.

 

[Seattle Totems]

It is not that difficult for a mature student to obtain a degree. If anything, it's probably easier because they take condensed courses and their professors are a lot more likely to push them through.

 

[alternate]

My opening night lineup, if I'm making it today.

Twins-Vrbata
Baertschi-Horvat-Virtanen (you have go back to this line after last night)
Burrows-Sutter-Hansen
Prust-McCann-Dorsett
Cracknell

Edler-Tanev
Hamhuis-Hutton
Biega-Bartkowski
Weber-Sbisa

I'd carry 8 dmen.

I think both Vey and Corrado get down to Utica.

Biega simply isn't an everyday NHL blueliner. Good piece for the farm and decent enough depth guy in the 8-10 slots, but no way he's a top 6 guy.

And Weber, while I don't love him as a 5 on 5 defender, he has improved since he first got here and as long as he's here it's tough not putting his rhs on the PP. Anyone take the over for this season on his 11 goals from last year?

 

[DarrenX]

Maybe because they realize that playing a sport for a living has inherent risk with injuries, so your career may get cut short. .....Not saying they can't go to school when they retire, but there is plenty of evidence to suggest younger minds learn easier than older ones, so why not? Sets you up for life.

"Young minds learn easier than old ones?" LOL. Give me a break. Your potential as a pro athlete declines a lot more rapidly than your potential as a student, which in most subjects peaks in your 30s and 40s and continues well into your 60s. From an investment point of view, shortening the overall length of your pro career by even a single year in order to get a degree is *insane*. That's a decision that could cost you millions. If you're intellectually curious about stuff while you're playing, read a book.

The injury factor just makes it more lopsided in favour of turning pro as soon as possible. If you break your leg and your career is over, do you want to do that in the NHL in the third year of your ELC, with a million dollars in the bank, or in the 3rd year of your NCAA career, with nothing?

Is it easier to get a degree at 18-21 than at 40? Yes.
Is it easier to play in the NHL at 18-21 than at 40? Equally yes.

I think we agree but I have to call you out here. "Equally" yes? Speaking as someone who went back and got a tough quantitative master's degree at age 35, this is not even remotely true. Yes, it was slightly more difficult in some ways, but in other ways I got a lot more out of the experience. If you can get a degree at 21 you can get one at 40. The same is not true of playing in the NHL.

 

[Peen]

I too would carry 8 D and dump Vey until Higgins is back.

 

[MS]

Biega simply isn't an everyday NHL blueliner. Good piece for the farm and decent enough depth guy in the 8-10 slots, but no way he's a top 6 guy.

Why?

Why wouldn't he be ahead of Corrado and Sbisa based on performance?

What makes Matt Bartkowski a better player?

Biega isn't good enough to be on the 2011 Canucks but on this lousy group, yeah, he should be. He's probably pegged as 'career minor leaguer' on Benning's white board, though, so it doesn't matter.

 

[ahmon]

Biega simply isn't an everyday NHL blueliner. Good piece for the farm and decent enough depth guy in the 8-10 slots, but no way he's a top 6 guy.

And Weber, while I don't love him as a 5 on 5 defender, he has improved since he first got here and as long as he's here it's tough not putting his rhs on the PP. Anyone take the over for this season on his 11 goals from last year?

Why?

what makes Bartkowski more of a top 6 guy?

 

[CanaFan]

I think we agree but I have to call you out here. "Equally" yes? Speaking as someone who went back and got a tough quantitative master's degree at age 35, this is not even remotely true. Yes, it was slightly more difficult in some ways, but in other ways I got a lot more out of the experience. If you can get a degree at 21 you can get one at 40. The same is not true of playing in the NHL.

Ya maybe I worded it poorly. Was trying to say you can get a degree as easily at 18 as you can at 40 (and maybe even easier at 40 as you say).

It is definitely harder to play pro sports from your mid-30s and beyond. If Boeser is offered a contract after 2 years at UND and turns pro at 20, he can have 15 earning years by the time he is 35. If he completes his degree and turns pro at 22 he only gets 13 earning years by the same age. In other words he loses roughly 14% of his career earnings through that decision, all things being equal. Financially not the correct decision. And tbh, you don't need a degree to get personal benefit out of the studies you take. He'll complete his freshman and sophmore seasons and enjoy campus life and whatever subjects he takes. If he likes it that much there is a world of learning he can do at 35 and with millions of dollars in his bank account to ensure he doesn't have to worry about earning a big salary in whatever he chooses to do next.

 

[alternate]

Why?

what makes Bartkowski more of a top 6 guy?

When you start playing regular season games with line matching Biega will be exposed in his own zone.

Bartkowski and Sbisa bring size and physical play to the table. Both are better skaters. And despite the echo chamber's claims otherwise, both are better at doing defensive things vs NHLers than Biega is.

I don't want to come across as hating on Biega, he's a valuable piece for the farm and a decent emergency fill in. But if he's in your top 6 you're competing for top lottery odds.

 

[arsmaster*]

When you start playing regular season games with line matching Biega will be exposed in his own zone.

Bartkowski and Sbisa bring size and physical play to the table. Both are better skaters. And despite the echo chamber's claims otherwise, both are better at doing defensive things vs NHLers than Biega is.

I don't want to come across as hating on Biega, he's a valuable piece for the farm and a decent emergency fill in. But if he's in your top 6 you're competing for top lottery odds.

Bartkowski isn't big.

Line matching has exposed Sbisa already, Ryan Stanton outproduced, outpossessed and got scored on less.....he had to sign a two-way league min contract, because the NHL old boys club says if you were a first round pick you get more chances than anyone else.

Nevertheless, I'm getting tired of reading your passive aggressive remarks like "echo chamber".

Wanna hear something else funny, in Sbisa's career season, he was a top 4 dman on a lottery team.

 

[JA]

When you start playing regular season games with line matching Biega will be exposed in his own zone.

Bartkowski and Sbisa bring size and physical play to the table. Both are better skaters. And despite the echo chamber's claims otherwise, both are better at doing defensive things vs NHLers than Biega is.

I don't want to come across as hating on Biega, he's a valuable piece for the farm and a decent emergency fill in. But if he's in your top 6 you're competing for top lottery odds.

I really like the way Biega skates. I think he's one of the most mobile defensemen I've seen with the Canucks in a while. He has speed and poise when he carries the puck; he skates effortlessly, and looked especially good last night. On a few occasions he wound up in the defensive zone and then breezed through the neutral zone with ease. I have been extremely impressed with his puck-moving ability and his mobility.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

I will be surprised if Boeser signs in two years. Kid seemed pretty committed to getting his degree before jumping to the pros.

He is going to school at North Dakota not Harvard. His choice of school shows he is going there to play hockey not focus getting a degree. He would have had his choice of universities. He chose ND. Tell me if I am wrong but I think ND university is known for one thing. It is like college football Miami U or basketball UNLV. The only way he would stay is if he regressed or got hurt and wasn't offered a contract.

 

[ahmon]

When you start playing regular season games with line matching Biega will be exposed in his own zone.

Bartkowski and Sbisa bring size and physical play to the table. Both are better skaters. And despite the echo chamber's claims otherwise, both are better at doing defensive things vs NHLers than Biega is.

I don't want to come across as hating on Biega, he's a valuable piece for the farm and a decent emergency fill in. But if he's in your top 6 you're competing for top lottery odds.

I watched last year and Sbisa was exposed.....

Biega is a very good skater himself. You don't come across as hating Biega, just underrating him.

Biega in the preseason has outperformed Sbisa and thats pretty clear.

 

[MS]

When you start playing regular season games with line matching Biega will be exposed in his own zone.

Bartkowski and Sbisa bring size and physical play to the table. Both are better skaters. And despite the echo chamber's claims otherwise, both are better at doing defensive things vs NHLers than Biega is.

I don't want to come across as hating on Biega, he's a valuable piece for the farm and a decent emergency fill in. But if he's in your top 6 you're competing for top lottery odds.

Biega is actually bigger than Bartkowski. Weight is much more important than height. Bartkowski is undersized.

Biega and Bartkowski play the exact same style of game. Excellent skaters who can carry the puck out of the zone, have a decent first pass, and try to play physical for their size. Except Biega is a smarter player with better fundamentals and gap control, and is more consistently physical. And has a better shot. And better character/leadership attributes.

As for Sbisa, he's just garbage and worse than Biega at both ends of the rink. Probably the worst regular defender in the NHL last year. He's not an argument for anything except the scouting incompetence of Jim Benning.

 

[Virtanen2Horvat]

Sedin - Sedin - Vrbata
Baertschi - Horvat - Virtanen
Burrows - McCann - Sutter
Prust - Cracknell - Hansen
Dorsett

Edler - Tanev
Hamhuis - Weber
Hutton - Bartkowski(Maybe Biega)

Markstrom
Miller

 

[Horse McHindu]

Sedin - Sedin - Vrbata
Baertschi - Horvat - Virtanen
Burrows - McCann - Sutter
Prust - Cracknell - Hansen
Dorsett

Edler - Tanev
Hamhuis - Weber
Hutton - Bartkowski(Maybe Biega)

Markstrom
Miller

I like these lines a lot actually. Only thing I'd do differently is add Dorsett and remove Prust (even if Dorsett or Hansen has to play LW).

On that McCann/Burr/Sutter line, you can even re-arrange it if the coaching staff feels that Sutter is better suited to C (i.e. McCann-Sutter-Burrows).

Not bad at all.

 

[Virtanen2Horvat]

I like these lines a lot actually. Only thing I'd do differently is add Dorsett and remove Prust (even if Dorsett or Hansen has to play LW).

On that McCann/Burr/Sutter line, you can even re-arrange it if the coaching staff feels that Sutter is better suited to C (i.e. McCann-Sutter-Burrows).

Not bad at all.

Yeah its kind of hard to know who to put in the bottom six. I am not a big fan of McCann on the wing because I remember him not being comfortable there and better at center.

 

[CP]

Tactically speaking, if I were GM, I'd waive Vey because he is not real good. I'd put Higgins on LTIR and send Hutton to the Comets until the next injury occurred. I'd call him up and put him in the top six once that happened. This would allow the Canucks to keep maximum depth. It is a long season, so as a cold calculating GM, retaining depth is a very high priority. Losing Corrado or anyone else is a high price to pay to allow Hutton to start the season with the big club. Having Hutton, Kenins and Guance in Utica is a huge bonus as injury replacements because they can all play in the NHL.

 

[CherryToke]

Biega is actually bigger than Bartkowski. Weight is much more important than height. Bartkowski is undersized.

Biega and Bartkowski play the exact same style of game. Excellent skaters who can carry the puck out of the zone, have a decent first pass, and try to play physical for their size. Except Biega is a smarter player with better fundamentals and gap control, and is more consistently physical. And has a better shot. And better character/leadership attributes.

As for Sbisa, he's just garbage and worse than Biega at both ends of the rink. Probably the worst regular defender in the NHL last year. He's not an argument for anything except the scouting incompetence of Jim Benning.

Biega is also good in front of his own net for a small guy. his defensive awareness is far greater than Sbisa.(not saying much I know)

 

[quat]

I really like the way Biega skates. I think he's one of the most mobile defensemen I've seen with the Canucks in a while. He has speed and poise when he carries the puck; he skates effortlessly, and looked especially good last night. On a few occasions he wound up in the defensive zone and then breezed through the neutral zone with ease. I have been extremely impressed with his puck-moving ability and his mobility.

He also has a decent amount of physicality and uses his lower center of gravity (due to height) extremely well. When he rolled into the defensive end during the Sharks game and knocked Marleau on his butt without using his stick on his him, well that takes an a great deal of skill and timing to say nothing of the speed to catch the guy in the first place.

He's not looked out of place on any of the pairings I've seen him on, and that's a great thing for this team. We've all been worried about depth, and Biega has shown he has a least the promise of being able to play a decent number of minutes in the NHL.

The biggest reason the Sharks game was close was in a large part the play of the defence.

 

[alternate]

Bartkowski isn't big.

Line matching has exposed Sbisa already, Ryan Stanton outproduced, outpossessed and got scored on less.....he had to sign a two-way league min contract, because the NHL old boys club says if you were a first round pick you get more chances than anyone else.

Nevertheless, I'm getting tired of reading your passive aggressive remarks like "echo chamber".

Wanna hear something else funny, in Sbisa's career season, he was a top 4 dman on a lottery team.

Ryan Stanton? Shouldn't he actually be the ideal old boys club defender? Has the glare and the chiselled chin.

And there's nothing passive aggressive about "echo chamber". This place is an echo chamber, all internet forums tend to be. Want to do an interesting experiment? Mid season, pick a couple of different sites for the same team, any sport it doesn't matter. Guaranteed there will be at least a couple of players that one board absolutely loves, while the other board can't stand. Echo chamber.

Biega is actually bigger than Bartkowski. Weight is much more important than height. Bartkowski is undersized.

Is this accurate? I'm surprised. Biega looks like Weber sized, Bark while not big, looks average at least. Ok, scratch the bigger part.

Still haven't seen an NHLer when I watch Biega. Looked pretty decent with Weber vs SJS, probably the best I've seen him. But I haven't been impressed from my viewings so far. Oh well, I've been wrong before, I'll be wrong again. If Biega surprises me, that'd be great for the franchise.

 

[Verviticus]

Biega is actually bigger than Bartkowski. Weight is much more important than height. Bartkowski is undersized.

Biega and Bartkowski play the exact same style of game. Excellent skaters who can carry the puck out of the zone, have a decent first pass, and try to play physical for their size. Except Biega is a smarter player with better fundamentals and gap control, and is more consistently physical. And has a better shot. And better character/leadership attributes.

As for Sbisa, he's just garbage and worse than Biega at both ends of the rink. Probably the worst regular defender in the NHL last year. He's not an argument for anything except the scouting incompetence of Jim Benning.

it owns when people assume that bartkowski or sutter are gritty and physical. i remember being chastised for assuming that all benning does is try to acquire no-talent idiots and grinders and of all of those people that did that are now trying to assume bartkowski and sutter have even half an alex burrows' worth of grittiness between them and are very very wrong

dont get ME wrong, i like bart. i think he and biega have both proven their worth this pre-season

all that said, i do feel like biega must have made changes to his game this off-season. while he wasnt a disaster last year during his callups, he definitely wasnt longterm nhl material

Garrison for Linden-Vey? Meh

lol

 

[bsjezz]

As for Sbisa, he's just garbage and worse than Biega at both ends of the rink. Probably the worst regular defender in the NHL last year. He's not an argument for anything except the scouting incompetence of Jim Benning.

worst in the NHL? i understand that this is a time of great hyperbole around here but even still, no. that's not right.

point the first


point the second:

[NHL]682983[/NHL]

 

[Disappointed EP40]

Watching Hutton make confident moves coming out of his own end and not just firing the puck out off the glass to get out of trouble has won me over. Not one of our other dmen has the ability to do that.

This was actually a grossly under appreciated Bieksa trait! It's diminished, but KB was good at getting it to center.

I also think this is why Canucks record is really good with KB than without. Hutton's ability coming at the right time.

 

[WTG]

worst in the NHL? i understand that this is a time of great hyperbole around here but even still, no. that's not right.

Yeah he is not the worst player in the NHL.

Is he the worst defenseman on the canucks team? One could argue.

Would you take Sbisa or Hutton right now? Bartkowski or Sbisa? Corrado or Sbisa?

I'd probably take Hutton, Bart, Corrado.