Post-Game Talk: Canucks 4 @ Wings 3 SO || We Got The Vey We Asked For But Not The One We Deserve.

[Smokey McCanucks]

McCann, Baertschi, Vrbata and Vey? It mus be opposite day or something knowmsayn.

 

[John Belushi]

I don't often disagree with you but Miller was terrible this entire game and is lucky they didn't put the game out of reach in the third. All of the goals were easily saveable if he had just correctly executed the simple fundamentals.

Glad I'm not the only one who saw this. Miller was fighting the puck all game long. Wasn't square to the shooter on the tying goal and it cost him.

 

[chis]

The Good

Miller - made some just outstanding saves and that tying goal was inch perfect and I don't see how you don't simply congratulate the shooter on that one.

I realize the shootout covered up his flaws but he cost us 1 point and it could have easily been 3 if it wasn't for Biega.

Also, Burrows was bad - failed doing an easy clear which led to a goal among other things

 

[Ozone]

I don't often disagree with you but Miller was terrible this entire game and is lucky they didn't put the game out of reach in the third. All of the goals were easily saveable if he had just correctly executed the simple fundamentals.

I'm not trying to pick apart your post...but although Miller was not great the whole night, he was far from terrible.

 

[KeninsFan]

After the Higgins SO attempt I was ready to kill Willie. Then he puts out Linden Vey

Oh well I enjoyed the 2 pts, still hoping we sneak in as the wildcard and fluke our way to a Cup.

 

[me2]

What are the 'Nucks going to do with Burrows and Higgins?....still a year left on their contacts, but they're so far below the bar of NHL players earning the kind of the money they're making, that I just can't see how they can bring them back....Shinkaruk with a four point night and Gaunce with another two goals in the minors......maybe they can put the veterans on waivers and see what happens.

Tanking teams need cap filler to reach the floor. Not an issue unless you are hunting the cup.

 

[Ozone]

No. Because his style just doesn't work unless you have an entire team on board. Even his old coach in Buffalo was trying to modernize his game.

The reason goalies have been so successful is because with the help of good coaches they have been able to change their games in response to changes to the game and to themselves.

If you look at Osgood, the reason he was able to win those last couple cups after almost being out of the league was because he completely changed his game to a more modern style.

Or Luongo, his game has grown leaps and bounds after working with Melanson here.

Again, I like your posts but disagree here. His 'style' doesn't work because he overcompensates at times, and occasionally cheats. He also becomes overly aggressive when he seems frustrated. Lets not forget that he's not a big guy nor a young man.

It's as simple as that.

 

[m9]

What are the 'Nucks going to do with Burrows and Higgins?....still a year left on their contacts, but they're so far below the bar of NHL players earning the kind of the money they're making, that I just can't see how they can bring them back....Shinkaruk with a four point night and Gaunce with another two goals in the minors......maybe they can put the veterans on waivers and see what happens.

I think both pass through waivers at this point, unfortunately. If Benning can move them for any value without taking a bad contract back it will be a success.

 

[mossey3535]

Again, I like your posts but disagree here. His 'style' doesn't work because he overcompensates at times, and occasionally cheats. He also becomes overly aggressive when he seems frustrated. Lets not forget that he's not a big guy nor a young man.

It's as simple as that.

Except this overcompensation has been happening for the better part of 3-4 years. At some point you have to ask yourself where the weak link is.

And he's not 'sometimes overcompensating'. He's doing it most of the time. It indicates a serious lack of thought in his game, which he is purportedly very thoughtful about.

 

[Ozone]

I think both pass through waivers at this point, unfortunately. If Benning can move them for any value without taking a bad contract back it will be a success.

I think you have to hold on to The Burr.

If, for nothing else, taking such a selfless, incredibly team-centric view on his previous contract.
One could argue (aside from his game 7 OT goal) that this low, selfless, contract gave us that little edge to put together our crazy cap-tight 2011 run.

Burr deserves to retire a Canuck.

 

[Ozone]

Except this overcompensation has been happening for the better part of 3-4 years. At some point you have to ask yourself where the weak link is.

And he's not 'sometimes overcompensating'. He's doing it most of the time. It indicates a serious lack of thought in his game, which he is purportedly very thoughtful about.

All true. Yet, the leap to the 'weak link' is, arguably, up for debate.

I simply seem to have less faith in modernity and systems, and look at the simple physical and mental aspects of the player.

Tomato, tomato.

 

[Pip]

Luckily Miller stepped it up in the shootout, cause he was awful tonight.

Bo has strung together a few good games now. Things are looking up for him. Daniel seems a bit lost out there and the PP was predictably a mess without Hank. Such a shame because it was looking so good recently.

 

[m9]

I think you have to hold on to The Burr.

If, for nothing else, taking such a selfless, incredibly team-centric view on his previous contract.
One could argue (aside from his game 7 OT goal) that this low, selfless, contract gave us that little edge to put together our crazy cap-tight 2011 run.

Burr deserves to retire a Canuck.

If he prefers that, sure. But he might also prefer playing for a cup contender. If we get creative and retain some salary maybe there's a good fit all-around and we can get a piece back.

 

[vancityluongo]

I take Burrows and his still solid penalty killing at 4M every time over Dorsett at 2.5M. Given his history with the team, no way in hell is he a buyout candidate. At most, you quietly do what they did to Bieksa; only problem is, his reputation league wide is the opposite so there's no way in hell you get any sort of value back. Not worth it.

This game was Ryan Miller's tenure as a Canuck in a nut shell. Fighting the puck all game, makes a couple big saves on some weird defending only to let in a back breaker late. Ends up shutting things down a bit (dramatically) in OT and pulls out a W. .893 sv% so by any reasonable statistical analysis, not a very good game at all, but according to the eye test of someone like Willie he made some key saves late and held on for the win.

 

[I am toxic]

Except this overcompensation has been happening for the better part of 3-4 years. At some point you have to ask yourself where the weak link is.

And he's not 'sometimes overcompensating'. He's doing it most of the time. It indicates a serious lack of thought in his game, which he is purportedly very thoughtful about.

I understand why he might be considered a student of the game (position). I think Ranford would work the best with him. Not Korn nor BAllaire.

 

[Peen]

Only slept four hours last night because I've been busy. Saw the team we were playing and Henrik was out. Saw that the raptors were playing the heat on a b2b. We win both games.

Can't really complain when youth wins you the game.

 

[VanJack]

I take Burrows and his still solid penalty killing at 4M every time over Dorsett at 2.5M. Given his history with the team, no way in hell is he a buyout candidate. At most, you quietly do what they did to Bieksa; only problem is, his reputation league wide is the opposite so there's no way in hell you get any sort of value back. Not worth it.

This game was Ryan Miller's tenure as a Canuck in a nut shell. Fighting the puck all game, makes a couple big saves on some weird defending only to let in a back breaker late. Ends up shutting things down a bit (dramatically) in OT and pulls out a W. .893 sv% so by any reasonable statistical analysis, not a very good game at all, but according to the eye test of someone like Willie he made some key saves late and held on for the win.

Canucks were dominant through two periods and Miller had almost nothing to do, but you knew the Wings were going to push back in the third, with the 'Nucks playing back to back and on their third game in four nights.....that's where your goalie has to bail you out...didn't like two of the goals tonight, but that's about you're going to get out of Miller right now.....still dominant in shoot-outs, but mostly average during regulation......another contract totally out of whack with the on-ice production.

 

[Ozone]

If he prefers that, sure. But he might also prefer playing for a cup contender. If we get creative and retain some salary maybe there's a good fit all-around and we can get a piece back.

Totally agree! Personally, I would love this - if this was something he really wanted.
Besides the yapping, he has been a great great guy for us, and I'd try to do whatever he wished.

 

[Soups On]

Really liking what I'm seeing from Bo. You can tell he's busting his ass to get out of that slump, soon something will give and I can see him putting up some more points. He and Baertschi (who's better along the boards and driving the net more) both showed what they're made of and it's good to see.

I've been an avid supporter of Baertschi so it's good to see he's getting rewarded more ice time. He's committed more to defense and good neutral zone play, he's developing.

Also liked what I saw from Vey tonight. Can't blame him at all for the 1st goal, that was on Burrows. Vey made some good passes and drove the play a bit, hopefully he keeps it up.

Hutton showed his poise again tonight, just a good player. It's obvious that the NHL schedule is taking a toll on him but he's sticking to his game and it works. Developing well.

Biega is a beast. Let's get him on the power play Willie. Biega and Hutton together would be great but that would leave the two tire-fires together.

4th line was alright. Dorsett the worst as per usual. Higgins is sadly completely irrelevant. He used to be tenacious on the forechecking but he seems completely out of it. Injured? Based on merit, he should be sitting (call up Jensen/Grenier/Gaunce/Shinkaruk.

Weber wasn't crap tonight, which is all I ask. Bartkowski was kind of crap, kind if not. Looked like the pass was open for McCann on the 3v3 but he was intent on scoring. Too bad.

Miller... Enough has been said. He makes great saves but often gets way out of position or makes baaaad reads. His shoutout performance made up for the 1st + 3rd goals and got the team the two points.

 

[Ozone]

Except this overcompensation has been happening for the better part of 3-4 years. At some point you have to ask yourself where the weak link is.

And he's not 'sometimes overcompensating'. He's doing it most of the time. It indicates a serious lack of thought in his game, which he is purportedly very thoughtful about.

I just reread this part, and I am now wondering what you are actually saying here...
Hmmm...

Are you saying he is 'very thoughtful' and incredibly mindful about his in-game thought process, and others (coaches) are messing with his head? In other words, he is smart enough to know better, but not smart enough to address this?

Or, are the 'purported' stories exaggerated about his in-game mental prowess?

Either way, it's interesting to think about. Who really knows?

 

[Ozone]

No. Because his style just doesn't work unless you have an entire team on board. Even his old coach in Buffalo was trying to modernize his game.

The reason goalies have been so successful is because with the help of good coaches they have been able to change their games in response to changes to the game and to themselves.

If you look at Osgood, the reason he was able to win those last couple cups after almost being out of the league was because he completely changed his game to a more modern style.

Or Luongo, his game has grown leaps and bounds after working with Melanson here.

Again, and again! Mossey, I really do like your posts and the thought you put into them! I am only debating you on a few minor points....

C'mon! 'after' ???

Have we forgotten the goalie Nonis traded for? It can be argued that Melanson put Luongo back on track, but lets not forget his incredibly amazing first year here, and what he did earlier in Florida.

What was Lu's biggest weakness here? Between the ears.

Coaches and systems cannot change that forever. Ever.

 

[thepoeticgoblin]

Glad I'm not the only one who saw this. Miller was fighting the puck all game long. Wasn't square to the shooter on the tying goal and it cost him.

And still he'll go against FLA

 

[Ozone]

Really liking what I'm seeing from Bo. You can tell he's busting his ass to get out of that slump, soon something will give and I can see him putting up some more points. He and Baertschi (who's better along the boards and driving the net more) both showed what they're made of and it's good to see.

I've been an avid supporter of Baertschi so it's good to see he's getting rewarded more ice time. He's committed more to defense and good neutral zone play, he's developing.

Also liked what I saw from Vey tonight. Can't blame him at all for the 1st goal, that was on Burrows. Vey made some good passes and drove the play a bit, hopefully he keeps it up.

Hutton showed his poise again tonight, just a good player. It's obvious that the NHL schedule is taking a toll on him but he's sticking to his game and it works. Developing well.

Biega is a beast. Let's get him on the power play Willie. Biega and Hutton together would be great but that would leave the two tire-fires together.

4th line was alright. Dorsett the worst as per usual. Higgins is sadly completely irrelevant. He used to be tenacious on the forechecking but he seems completely out of it. Injured? Based on merit, he should be sitting (call up Jensen/Grenier/Gaunce/Shinkaruk.

Weber wasn't crap tonight, which is all I ask. Bartkowski was kind of crap, kind if not. Looked like the pass was open for McCann on the 3v3 but he was intent on scoring. Too bad.

Miller... Enough has been said. He makes great saves but often gets way out of position or makes baaaad reads. His shoutout performance made up for the 1st + 3rd goals and got the team the two points.

I feel like a McDonalds commercial after reading this: I'm lovin' it! I'll show myself out...(that was terrible).

Good post. Except I felt Vey made a pass a bit too hard to Burr..and I didn't like his scramble afterwards..

After that good post, let's hope the young guns continue to find confidence and battle hard - no matter the outcome.

Edit: Man, was it nice to see Bo finding his confidence again tonight....

Let's hope they have a second date planned...

 

[Oliewud]

definitely think we should put burrows with the twins and roll

sedin sedin burrows
baertschi horvat vrbata
higgins mccann hansen
prust crackerjack dorsett

 

[biturbo19]

I would love nothing more than to tune in and watch Miller put up .920+ in every start. But I don't have much sympathy for him because his decisions are frankly stupid. As I posted in the other thread he is basically going against the grain of play for every other goalie in the NHL by choosing to gain depth all the time. There is a reason nobody does it blindly like he is doing it now - it's the simple evolution of the way the position is played.

Right now Miller is basically saying well screw you guys I know what is best ... which would be fine except his stats show he is playing like crap. And this team is not constructed to help him play a more aggressive style so he is also basically forcing the team to adapt to him instead of the other way around.

So yeah, not much sympathy from this corner but he's our goalie so I try to support him.

I know we don't see eye to eye on this, and probably never will. But i really think it boils down to you wanting to see Miller play "the right way", and "the modern way", or at least incorporate major elements of that into his game. It's akin to you suggesting with regards to Miller, "screw you guy, i know what is best".

Whereas for me, i see a 35 year old man who has been playing a fundamentally different style of game with a very different approach for all his life. There's a saying about old dogs, and new tricks. And no matter how many "new tricks" Miller can incorporate into his game...no matter how deep a reinvention of his game you think he could achieve...he's got a year left after this as a real starter, at best. After that it's either retirement or bouncing around as a veteran backup who does his own thing for a while. This isn't going to be an Osgood story where he wins a Cup behind a world class defence and impeccably structured team like the Wings, and can attribute it to "playing all modern like".

I think you take Miller for what he is...where when he's on, he can be really on...and when he's off, he can be really off. And where there are going to be moments where his risk/reward style of play gets him burned badly. Just kind of have to swallow that and move on...and remember we're talking about an old man in his twighlight. The clock is ticking down on his "time left to adapt"...and is almost sure to run out before he really "gets it".

He's been through a handful of years of trying to change now, to some degree - and there are some details and elements that can be pasted into his game easily enough and have some small benefit, but by and large...as you're suggesting yourself, change to the natural core of his game just isn't happening. To endeavour to fundamentally alter something as ingrained as his desire to gain depth, challenge aggressively, and actively anticipate plays at this stage in his life and career...just seems like a way of ensuring he spends the twighlight of his NHL career in an awkward limbo.


I mean, some of those goals tonight are extremely frustrating to watch. But there are also saves mixed in there which are extremely impressive to watch. I think at this point, it is what it is...Miller is gonna play like Miller. And the best hockey he seems to play, is when he's seeming most comfortable in playing his way. Just so happens that some of the worst hockey he seems to play, also occurs when he's playing his way and trying to do too much.