Post-Game Talk: Canucks 3 Oilers 2 - McDavid meets McCann (again)

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sting101

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Feb 8, 2012
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The forwards look faster more skilled and deeper. Youth is coming to fruition. Horvat looks like he could be one of the best all around centers in the league one day. Goaltending looks ready. The defense has a few things to sort out but are a fast group that can handle the increasing need for speed and quick transition.

But all I hear is Griping about Vey, Prust and Sbisa......what a bunch of tiresome whining.
 

vanuck

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Dec 28, 2009
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Continually pleasantly surprised with the amount of poise Hutton has showed with the puck when under pressure. Him not making the team would be a farce. Likewise with Biega who's outplayed Corrado and Sbisa at the very least.

I'd give McCann the 9 games, but I don't see him being fully ready for the NHL this season. Good signs though.

As for the two goals by the Oilers I thought Miller didn't have much chance on either one - the first was on Sbisa and the second was off a bad bounce off the linesman (though Bartkowski's swimming didn't help). Ironic since I usually rag on 6Miller, but hopefully he shows enough to have some sort of trade value at the deadline which is pretty much my pie in the sky fantasy (lol who am I kidding).
 

quat

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The forwards look faster more skilled and deeper. Youth is coming to fruition. Horvat looks like he could be one of the best all around centers in the league one day. Goaltending looks ready. The defense has a few things to sort out but are a fast group that can handle the increasing need for speed and quick transition.

But all I hear is Griping about Vey, Prust and Sbisa......what a bunch of tiresome whining.

Well, why not write all those positive things instead of complaining about the stuff you don't want to read? I'd rather read the good stuff.

I'll admit I've caught myself complaining about complainers as well. It still strikes me as odd though.
 

IComeInPeace

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Jun 16, 2009
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ET = man, Edler literally cannot get a single good shot through, can he? It's just laughable. Also he's looking slow and passive again.

If Edler looks the way he did tonight every night we are pretty darn fortunate.

Maybe the best player on the ice, but 'he's too slow, passive, and can't get his shots through'???
 

JA

Guest
I would do this

Sedin - Sedin - Vrbata
Baertschi - Horvat - Virtanen
Burrows - Sutter - Hansen
Higgins - McCann - Dorsett

Prust

Edler - Tanev
Hamhuis - Biega
Hutton - Bartkowski/Sbisa/Weber

Bartkowski/Sbisa/Weber
Bartkowski/Sbisa/Weber

Markstrom
Miller

I like this lineup, although I would have Bartkowski take the sixth spot on defense over Sbisa and Weber. He is more mobile than Sbisa or Weber and has impressed me with his ability to not only carry the puck up the ice, but also to recover from his mistakes using his speed. Biega has been impressive; he demonstrates poise with the puck and is the most effortless skater of the defensemen I've seen this preseason. He has made some strong offensive plays with the puck as well. Both Bartkowski and Biega would add much needed speed and puck movement ability to the defense corps.
 
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Ainec

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Jun 20, 2009
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don't care if McCann gets sent down

he is capable of playing in the NHL but I firmly believe he should go back to the CHL and not be rushed
 

VanJack

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Game the Canucks had little business wining. Thought they were vastly out-played for large parts for the game and Miller had to be superb to hold them in. Defense had real problems and the deficiencies of some were clearly evident. Also, unlike last game Canucks couldn't feast on players like Nikitin and Ference.

Liked

Horvat - has been the MVP of the pre-season. Another good effort here.

Edler - plays like this all season and he goes to the elite level.

Miller - lights out. Just looked great and had no chance on the goals. Hopefully keeps up play like this and, at least, increases his trade value. I know Benning doesn't think like this but maybe the best thing Miller can do for the Canuck's future is bring an eite prospect (especially for the defense)

Burrows - whatever line they put him on he helped. Fear that he might lose a step seems unfounded

Baertschi - nice game. Skating is much better and he seems to team well with Horvat. Worked the boards fairly well and ended up creating chances. Really starting to show the elite passing skills he has.

Did Not Like

Sedins - Yes they scored an outstanding OT goal but for much of the game they didn't seem able to keep up to the pace of the game. Lots of turnovers and sloppy passes (way too many back hand passes). In addition, got hemmed in their end far too often. Whole pre-season they haven't been able to get their passing game going.

Bartkowski - becoming more apparent that he has issues handling people around the net. Lots of thrashing around and chasing. Needs to better in traffic. Also getting beat at the blueline too much. Has some offensive tools but have to be concerned with him handling some the bigger forwards in this division. Him and Weber seem to look like the same player.

Sbisa - seems to follow a familiar pattern. Starts Ok but then seems to get gassed and skating lags. Begins to stop moving up with the play and starts make more desperate plays. Can see his pinches getting worse and starts to hook and hold to compensate for his lack of speed. Made some bad turnovers as the game went on.

Others

McCann - for much of the game looked in over his head - especially in his own end. Can see the game is going a little fast for him. When he gets the puck people are on him much quicker than he is use to and are a lot stronger on their sticks. Played better in the third but to me he is simply not ready. It might be good to give him some time so he can pushed to increase his quickness and reaction time but probably best for his development that he goes back to Junior.

Virtanen - thought he did a lot little things right. His puck movement was intelligent and showed touch. Seemed to do a good job of getting the puck out of his zone. Also he looked like a constant danger. Looked to be just a bounce away from breaking away at center on numerous occasions. Might be the fastest player on the team.

Vrbata - non-factor all the way around. You wonder if he is that great a fit with Horvat.

Hutton - seems to start the game with some problems but then he starts getting his feet going and begins to play with confidence. Maybe this was his least effective game but still looked like an NHL defenseman. Canucks need his size on the back end and IMO he has clearly out-played others on defense.

Sutter - not effective with the Sedins (outside of few shift in the third) and that looked like a failed experiment. Did, however again show flashes of upper level speed and vision. He has some game but the team is still searching for where he fits in.

Other points

To me Biega has outplayed, by a large margin, some of the other d-men. He has been a ton better than Corrado and IMO better than Bart, Sbisa and Weber. He should be on the team (who knows maybe he is cut already as I haven't really kept up with that) .

For those who want Corrado, I think you have to realize that his developement has plateaued for while now. That is bad sign. People seems to assume that as you get older you naturally get better but that assumption is not warranted. Lots of players reach a certain point and then never get better. The waiver wires are littered with these players. Also thinking Corrado will automatically get picked up is IMO over-rating your own players. There are plenty of players as good or better than Corrado that have already gone through waivers. Right now Biega is better and whether Corrado ever reaches Biega level is open to question. Will be interesting to see what the team does here but I see a mistake on the horizon.

Getting clear that Weber needs Hamhuis to play well

Not sure what game you were watching....McCann was bounced back and forth between lines....set up stone-hands Hansen with a sitter he couldn't finish and demonstrated lots of speed and skill through the neutral zone....struggled at times in his own zone...but everyone struggled, including the Sedins who were turnover machines in the second period......whether McCann is ready or not, unfortunately the alternative to McCann is Vey or Cracknall....are you kidding?
 

Peen

Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
Oct 6, 2013
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The forwards look faster more skilled and deeper. Youth is coming to fruition. Horvat looks like he could be one of the best all around centers in the league one day. Goaltending looks ready. The defense has a few things to sort out but are a fast group that can handle the increasing need for speed and quick transition.

But all I hear is Griping about Vey, Prust and Sbisa......what a bunch of tiresome whining.

I don't get why people don't want to criticize.

I criticize what I see, not based off of an agenda I want to push.

Vey is not a fit on this team, I doubt he's a fit anywhere in the NHL right now, no matter what team.

Prust is slow. He looks slow. He's by far the slowest player on the team.

Sbisa is just stupid. There is really no sugar coating it.

Miller is not a 6m goaltender based on last season. He played really well tonight though. Excellent in fact.

Now, positives.

I'm fine with Edler's blocked shots, because he's been so good with everything else. I think he does need to stop shooting those wristers from the point, but you live with these sorts of errors because he's very good.

Tanev is magic. Hamhuis is still awesome from my perspective. Hutton has been fantastic.

Virtanen has caught up to the speed of the NHL the past two games. He looks like he can stay, but he'll definitely struggle to make an impact as a fourth liner. Needs someone to push pace with him.

Dorsett is fine, WD overplays him, and his contract term is questionable, but he himself is fine if used properly.

McCann is fantastic. Bo is godly. Markstrom has been awesome. Vrbata scores goals.

Hansen fits the team mold and mindset for me.

Sedins will produce at an acceptable rate this season, I believe.

50/50

Burrows looks past it for me. If he gets 25-30 points, it's a successful season, but should not be re-signed for more than 2.5x2y honestly.

Higgins is whatever. He's there, he does what is expected over the season. His contract is good. His term is good. But he's just there. I think he's a good trade chip to a contender.

Svenbae is a wild card.

Weber is small, should be on the bottom pairing or press box. Fine 6. Bartkowski seems like a good 7 to me, that you can throw in certain situations. Both of them are fine for their salaries in the positions that I've suggested.

Jury is really out on Sutter. If he gives us three good years, I'm okay with him.

Those are my honest opinions. You can't just throw out this stupid narrative of "tiresome whining". If the player is bad, he's bad. It's not difficult. If he's good, he's good. It's not difficult.
 

biturbo19

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Jul 13, 2010
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Some thoughts as the preseason wraps up here...


Forwards:

Sedins: Definitely assuaged concerns i may have had about their ability to win us games in OT with the 3-on-3 format. When they have the puck, they make it look too easy.

Sutter: Looked utterly and completely lost on the wing most of the game. I kind of understand the idea, and maybe if Sutter can re-acclimate himself to the wing position, it could have some success eventually. But tonight, i completely disagree with WillieD on that combo...it looked completely disjointed to me all night. Slightly improved later on, but just doesn't seem to take advantage of anyone's strengths as a player.

Baertschi: Has improved as the preseason has gone on. That Bae-Bo duo looks like a great fit...Horvat seems to be the exact sort of center Baertschi could thrive with. Always looking for the guy in a dangerous scoring area...and Bo is a guy who is always Ox-ing his way to those dangerous scoring areas, to actually be a recipient for Bae's passes. Baertschi looking quicker as the preseason goes on as well, which is promising.

Vrbata: Still kind of sleepwalking through the preseason it seems. Putting him with the Bae-Bo duo kind of seemed to put him in an uncomfortable role. With that trio, Bo is really the only one who forechecks effectively...and as the center, that makes things a bit awkward. Vrbata got in and made some hits and it's not horrible as a fit with Bo necessarily, but as a trio i don't think that's really where you get the most out of Vrby the sniper leaking into open space.

Burrows-Hansen: I'll lump these two together, as i'd describe their games as pretty much exactly what you'd expect. Hansen had a few kind of uncharacteristic "ooops" moments with puck management, but i think we know what we've got here.

McCann: Didn't exactly stand out, but i thought he played overall, a good decent game. He did a good job generally putting himself in the right positions, and he doesn't look like a real liability out there...still really working to making things happen. I think he should at least get a look in the "real season" to see if he can maintain this. Seeming to "lose steam" in the final preseason game is a bit of a concern...but as far as carrying through to the regular season...there really is only one way to find out. :dunno:

Cracknell: Noticeably physical and he does his job. Absolutely looked the part of an NHL 4th liner, and i would have no qualms with him in the opening night lineup.

Virtanen: Really don't like seeing him in this sort of role; think it pretty clearly changes Jake's approach to the game and what he sets out to do. But tonight he did seem a bit more assertive in controlling and playing with the puck. Played the sort of game that reaffirms the idea he could very easily play the season with the Canucks in a 4th line role and do just fine. Just not convinced that's the best for him in the long-run. For me, it'd be "top-9 or WHL" with Virtanen...despite him looking "ready" to just muck and grind in the NHL all year.

Prust: Cannot skate. At all. This is looking like Hodgson-level mobility. Whatever happened to him this offseason, it's completely removed his ability to be effective as a role player. You can see flashes of his ability when the play lands in his lap and he doesn't have to move much to be a part of it...but he just spends so much time trying to move himself to where he needs to be. And it's so hard to watch too...he makes it look soooooooo hard to move around the ice. If he can't improve his mobility, this looks like a guy who is going to need a lot of nights off. May not hurt us if he has to come in here or there...but wow, he's just fallen off an absolute cliff since last season even.


Defence:

Tanev: Uncharacteristically sloppy game. Still clearly a cut above even still, but made plenty of mistakes tonight which you don't expect to see. Not really worried about it though.

Hutton: Got totally walked on the Nuge play, almost walked himself into trouble a few times...but he really does seem to have a bit of the unflappable Tanev-gene. Really impressive. Wasn't initially convinced, but he's just continued to churn out good results with a puck-moving skillset that's badly needed here. Deserves to be on the opening night roster.

Sbisa: Blamed far too much on the goal where Hutton got exploited...but on the whole, had one of those games where at least some of the Sbisa hate is genuinely well founded. Had plenty of good shifts, but the bad ones were just cringeworthy. Noteworthy...seemed a lot of those worst shifts came away from Hutton.

Bartkowski: Obviously very mobile...but had a game tonight where most of the mobility seemed to be used to move himself to where he didn't actually need to be. Outside of the wild careening out of control bad decision on the linesman goal, all night he seemed to be skating himself to weird spots for no particular reason. Indecisive off the rush at times as well defensively. Little offensive contribution. Has had some strong games in the preseason, but this was not one of them.

Weber: Looked like he was afraid to get hit tonight. Infuriating to watch for me. Very little actual "puck movement" of any kind...beyond dumping it off to someone else to avoid a checker. Didn't get a chance tonight to show off his one redeeming asset as a RH PP shot on the point...and consequently didn't look like a regular NHL defenceman.

Goaltender:

Miller: Looked dialed in tonight. Was seeing pucks, anticipating plays, calm and composed, moving well. This is the Miller we're gonna need this year. Hope this continues.



As far as a lineup based on this wrap-up of the preseason, i'd go with something like:

Sedin-Sedin-Vrbata <---this works, and everyone's happy.
Bae-Bo-Virtanen <---shame we didn't get a chance to see if it was a fluke, but this worked.
Burrows-McCann-Hansen <---wasn't a world-beater tonight, but it still works.
Cracknell-Sutter-Dorsett <---let Sutter just do his thing and "carry" a line.

When Higgy comes back...either you send down one of Virtanen/McCann if they're lagging behind...or you slot him in on the Sutter line in place of Cracknell for an amazing "forechecking defensive line".

Edler-Tanev <---duh.
Hamhuis-Bartkowski <---don't really like the chemistry, but kind of how it shakes out.
Hutton-Sbisa <---Hutton's ability to move the puck seems to help Sbisa a lot, and Sbisa's ability to physically compete seems to help around the net.
 

valkynax

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The forwards look faster more skilled and deeper. Youth is coming to fruition. Horvat looks like he could be one of the best all around centers in the league one day. Goaltending looks ready. The defense has a few things to sort out but are a fast group that can handle the increasing need for speed and quick transition.

But all I hear is Griping about Vey, Prust and Sbisa......what a bunch of tiresome whining.

To me the problem comes in two parts: 1) the price we paid to get these guys, 2) they are taking up spots that would otherwise give our prospects a good chance to demonstrate their capabilities.
 

fancouver

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Jan 15, 2009
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Post game comments in. No surprise, but like Virtanen said, it'd be nice to have more than 1 young guy make this roster.

I think Hutton and Virtanen have a really good shot. McCann I am still 50/50.
 

sting101

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Feb 8, 2012
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don't care if McCann gets sent down

he is capable of playing in the NHL but I firmly believe he should go back to the CHL and not be rushed
Agree with this.

While selfishly I want to watch him as a Canuck now. And I will add he's ready. I don't think there's any problem with him going to The Greyhounds.

Another year for his body to mature adding more strength and continuing as a go to elite offensive player isn't a bad thing IMO.
 

VanJack

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Jul 11, 2014
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The litmus test for Hutton was being paired with that tire-fire d-man Sbisa....Hutton not only survived but thrived imo.....that Sbisa contract just boggles the mind....so many brain-cramps every game, but I guess we're stuck with him.:shakehead
 

Disappointed EP40

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Jan 13, 2015
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1-2-3-4 justdoitWillieStache

Sedin - Sedin - Dorsett 15min
Baertschi - Horvat - Virtanen 15min
Burrows - McCann - Vrbata 15min
Prust - Sutter - Hansen 15min

every1wins

Switch Hansen and Dorsett, then pop Higgins on there for Prust when he's back and I fully endorse this.

Extra minutes to the line that's playing well each night.
 

Disappointed EP40

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don't care if McCann gets sent down

he is capable of playing in the NHL but I firmly believe he should go back to the CHL and not be rushed

I would understand if he got sent down and wouldn't be upset.

But I'd counter that anything beneficial he's going to get from the CHL, would be made up for by growing chemistry with the other young players. (I believe chemistry is better grown better two players if they're both finding their game together.)
 

Jack Tripper

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Dec 15, 2009
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generally don't pay much attention to wd's post game comments, but i agree with botchford and some of the previous posts that it was completely bizarre for wd to go out of his way to praise the sedin-sedin-sutter combo when it was the worst line on the ice for 40 mins

really having trouble seeing where sutter slots in, and just throwing him with the sedins in lieu of figuring out a better fit isn't the answer
 

Tryamkin

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May 18, 2015
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don't care if McCann gets sent down

he is capable of playing in the NHL but I firmly believe he should go back to the CHL and not be rushed

If he gets sent down, it's a mistake (I know even with Oi Vey and the cap hit, waivers, trade, over-expectations and everything). McCann will come back next year developed and ready as a 3C as long as he works on a few key things. Wrist shot and release is killer. Been compared to Boeser in shooting but I think McCann has a faster release and somewhat alike accuracy.
 

Peen

Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
Oct 6, 2013
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I understand McCann being sent down as well, but not at the expense of Vey. Vey is just really, really bad.

He definitely needs to put on some weight.
 

Tryamkin

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May 18, 2015
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I would understand if he got sent down and wouldn't be upset.

But I'd counter that anything beneficial he's going to get from the CHL, would be made up for by growing chemistry with the other young players. (I believe chemistry is better grown better two players if they're both finding their game together.)

I wouldn't be upset, more like disapointed.
 

MS

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Not a good performance - sloppy and disorganized. Miller was excellent and the Sedins finally cranked it on late.

- Sedins-Sutter looked atrocious for 2 periods and then a little better in the 3rd. Good to see the Sedins wake up just when their non-existent preseason was getting worrisome.

- Horvat line good again. Horvat was the best Canuck forward and carried the line. Baertschi is a frustrating perimeter player but his passing skill works with Horvat. Vrbata a bit of a passenger.

- McCann didn't have a great first 40 minutes but was excellent in the 3rd. Outdid Vey's performance with this linemate set. Burrows and Hansen both had their best preseason games.

- Virtanen tried his best but was on an island with 2 linemates as slow as Cracknell and Prust.

- Edler-Tanev were terrific. Big step forward from Edler from previous games. Watching him shoot the puck is still painful - can time his release with a sundial, and of course because it takes so long to get off, it's always into a shin.

- Hutton tried his best but was chained to an anchor in the atrocious Sbisa. Make a little mistake and Sbisa basically throws gasoline on it - just an abysmal player. Utterly clueless, processes the game at an ECHL speed. Hutton still showed some moments of real class tonight and all you can hope is that they don't ruin this player by continuing to play him with Sbisa.

- Bartkowski was brutal tonight. Can see why he was scratched 35 times last year. Down-low coverage just completely non-existent. Totally flailing on the 2-2 goal. Weber not much better.

- Miller was outstanding. Has a game like this once in a while to remind you how good he once was.
 

MS

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Honestly, I think I care even more about Biega making the team than Virtanen or McCann. There are NO developmental or physical question-marks with Biega. There's no excuse not to have him on the team. He's not just ready, he's fully ripe, physically and mentally complete, and criminally unused. And in my opinion, we have a far greater desperation for what he brings than what I think McCann/Virtanen will be able to bring in their first years.

Same.

On merit, Biega just completely destroyed all of Sbisa/Bartkowsi/Weber/Corrado this season. Simply a better player than all except maybe Weber.

But you know he's 'too small career minor-leaguer' on Benning's whiteboard so he'll be cut tomorrow.

Painful to see the chemistry and communication he had with Hutton ... and then see Hutton now saddled with Sbisa. :(
 

biturbo19

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Jul 13, 2010
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generally don't pay much attention to wd's post game comments, but i agree with botchford and some of the previous posts that it was completely bizarre for wd to go out of his way to praise the sedin-sedin-sutter combo when it was the worst line on the ice for 40 mins

really having trouble seeing where sutter slots in, and just throwing him with the sedins in lieu of figuring out a better fit isn't the answer

Yeah.

That was definitely bizarre. That WillieD watched that trio all night and liked it...idk.

I think there's a pretty clear fit for Sutter as the "3a/b/c" center with some real smash-mouth grinder types. I think he's shown he can do a lot more with those sort of linemates relative to anyone else we have. That's where he's looked most comfortable through the preseason.

I think it's pretty clear that Sutter can anchor a less-than-talented checking line and maybe even excel in that. While i think it was also pretty clear that he's an odd fit with the Sedins.


But then again, you have to remember Sutter is not comfortable playing the wing and hasn't in a very long time (and it showed so much, through the first two periods in particular). Maybe if he actually starts to adjust to the wing...it gets better? I'm not holding my breath though. Even in the few "good moments" of Sutter+Twins tonight...he kind of looked like the worst parts of Kesler and the worst parts of Vrbata combined, as a linemate for the Sedins.
 

greasy goals

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Mar 7, 2014
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I understand McCann being sent down as well, but not at the expense of Vey. Vey is just really, really bad.

He definitely needs to put on some weight.

Again, McCann is 6'0, 185. Stamkos is 6'0, 190. I don't see size/weight as a compelling reason to send down McCann. His game is a skill game, but even when it comes to physicality, we've seen him throwing hits throughout the preseason. He's ready.

The only thing junior would help with is projecting his ceiling. Like, if he got 50 goals and 70 assists, we'd know, alright, kid's going to blow up. Or if it was more of a repeat of last year, we'd know he probably tops out at 2C. But that's just academic. Put him in the bigs!
 

MS

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Mar 18, 2002
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Yeah.

That was definitely bizarre. That WillieD watched that trio all night and liked it...idk.

I think there's a pretty clear fit for Sutter as the "3a/b/c" center with some real smash-mouth grinder types. I think he's shown he can do a lot more with those sort of linemates relative to anyone else we have. That's where he's looked most comfortable through the preseason.

I think it's pretty clear that Sutter can anchor a less-than-talented checking line and maybe even excel in that. While i think it was also pretty clear that he's an odd fit with the Sedins.


But then again, you have to remember Sutter is not comfortable playing the wing and hasn't in a very long time (and it showed so much, through the first two periods in particular). Maybe if he actually starts to adjust to the wing...it gets better? I'm not holding my breath though. Even in the few "good moments" of Sutter+Twins tonight...he kind of looked like the worst parts of Kesler and the worst parts of Vrbata combined, as a linemate for the Sedins.

Obviously Higgins got hurt, but did they play Sutter even once this preseason with Hansen or Burrows? I'm pretty sure he got 3 games with skill guys, one with Dorsett and Prust, and one with the Sedins.

As you say, he's tailor-made to center a checking line with similar-type players in Higgins/Hansen/Burrows, but we didn't see him with his most logical linemates once. Bizarre.
 

Verviticus

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Jul 23, 2010
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its ****ing incredible that hansen with the sedins is an outstanding line even if people key into hansen whiffing tap ins and sutter with the sedins against the oilers is a ****ing tire fire

- Hutton tried his best but was chained to an anchor in the atrocious Sbisa. Make a little mistake and Sbisa basically throws gasoline on it

i love this so much, its such a good image, sbisas trying so hard to help, he's watched so many videos but no luca thats a tank of gasoline not a fire extinguisher oh man not again :(
 
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