Post-Game Talk: Canucks 3 @ Habs 4 (OT) || *unintelligble yelling*
- Thread starter thepuckmonster
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Expectations are way too high for this D-core. The team has three top four D-men (and one seems to be aging very quickly), a rookie with top 4 potential learning on the fly, and three 6/7 D-men. It's not as if Sbisa or Weber are magically going to get better. At their age, they are what they're going to be and they are giving what they have.
Pip
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I also didn't mind the Higgins-McCann-Vrbata line. Would be worth a shot maybe. On the one hand, Horvat clearly isn't working with his current linemates, but on the other hand maybe he needs time to gain chemistry and we shouldn't go looking for a Kenins-like linemate where they hit it off right away. All I know is that Baertschi and Horvat do not seem to compliment each other well and that both have looked better when separated.
VanillaCoke
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agreed that adam cracknell is a way better scorer than sidney crosby and jakub voracek
VanillaCoke
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Except Weber isn't Crosby to Sbisa's Cracknell. Weber has a marginally better career PPG of .28 vs Sbisa's at .20. Career high's are both in the low 20's as well despite what I would assume is a bigger dose of PP time for Weber over his career.
Seems fair to say both can contribute "a bit" offensively and any gap is too small to distinguish them relative to the rest of their play (which has been AHL quality for both this season).
Say what you want about Sbisa but the Canucks are 2-6 without him. I'd rather have him than Weber at this point.
I'm thinking him and prust are good for team confidence, which is what I think this team is lacking rt now
TheWanderer
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The problem with our defense goes beyond Weber/Sbisa... and you can add Barfkowski to them. Hamhuis has shown decline, Tanev has been okay, and Edler has been honestly pretty damn bad. And outright awful on the PP.
Hutton has been great, but is still a rookie and it shows at times - but he has been the only shining light on the back end compared to what should be back there.
Miller had the same good start as last season, and has tailed off just the same. He's back to being pretty awful. I listened to this game on the radio, so I didn't really see Markstrom play, but I hope we have some hope here.
Our rookies played better when they weren't sure if they belonged here. Now they are mostly invisible. Horvat is slumping. Vrbata is absolute garbage on all portions of the ice. Sedins are okay, but definitely slower. Hansen has been their best linemate, but I am a skeptic to call that a positive. Veteran forwards are already showing signs of not being 100%.
What can I say? Things were looking good up until this road trip. The whole team, as a collective, has collapsed. This screams to me bad preparation as well.
All Willie can do when something doesn't go his way is shrug his shoulders and twitch his stupid mustache.
I hope we manage to keep the value of our veterans up for when trade deadline rolls around...
Hutton has been great, but is still a rookie and it shows at times - but he has been the only shining light on the back end compared to what should be back there.
Miller had the same good start as last season, and has tailed off just the same. He's back to being pretty awful. I listened to this game on the radio, so I didn't really see Markstrom play, but I hope we have some hope here.
Our rookies played better when they weren't sure if they belonged here. Now they are mostly invisible. Horvat is slumping. Vrbata is absolute garbage on all portions of the ice. Sedins are okay, but definitely slower. Hansen has been their best linemate, but I am a skeptic to call that a positive. Veteran forwards are already showing signs of not being 100%.
What can I say? Things were looking good up until this road trip. The whole team, as a collective, has collapsed. This screams to me bad preparation as well.
All Willie can do when something doesn't go his way is shrug his shoulders and twitch his stupid mustache.
I hope we manage to keep the value of our veterans up for when trade deadline rolls around...
VanillaCoke
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Sbisa and prust. A replacement level D and 4th liner are what give this team confidence!?!?!?
TheWanderer
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Contrast?
I think even I would feel like a good hockey player with those two on my team
StrictlyCommercial
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Bad road trip is bad. Write it off, start fresh.
Change special teams and 3 on 3 strategy. Hope someone wakes up.
Change special teams and 3 on 3 strategy. Hope someone wakes up.
StrictlyCommercial
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Prust >>>>> Dorsett at least.
We really need a competent D partner for Hamhuis though.
biturbo19
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The thing with Sbisa, is that he can be to the PK, what Weber should be to the PP (but hasn't been, and probably just isn't outside of that isolated stretch).
And when it comes to defensive play, Sbisa is someone who can actually engage in what's going on around him. Weber can't, and willfully doesn't do so. Weber avoids puck battles like the plague, pawning them off on teammates left right and center, and when he does get isolated in those situations where he has to engage in them...he loses, almost every time.
Now Sbisa has his obvious glaring weaknesses when it comes to doing the right thing with the puck on his stick, but i've said it before...the biggest reason this is so glaring, is the amount of times he's on the "front lines" so to speak, actually getting possession back. First into the corners, pressuring the puck carrier, cordoning them off in an area and dictating their movement with his stick and body.
Now, that doesn't mean Sbisa is a great player or anything. But there are things he does do well. And that Hutton-Sbisa pairing seemed to be helping mitigate his shortcomings as a puck-handling defenceman.
And quite frankly...when Sbisa ****s up...it's because he's trying to do something.
When Weber ****s up...it's usually because he isn't doing anything at all. In addition to his **** ups where he turns the puck over or botches his attempt at avoiding a physical play by throwing the puck away, and because he's not actually a very talented "puck mover" at all. He's an "offensive zone defenceman". That's where he's good...and he hasn't even been that this year.
Just makes watching Weber so immensely frustrating. People give Sven a hard time for being a "perimeter player" and "soft"...my goodness what does that make Weber.
And when it comes to defensive play, Sbisa is someone who can actually engage in what's going on around him. Weber can't, and willfully doesn't do so. Weber avoids puck battles like the plague, pawning them off on teammates left right and center, and when he does get isolated in those situations where he has to engage in them...he loses, almost every time.
Now Sbisa has his obvious glaring weaknesses when it comes to doing the right thing with the puck on his stick, but i've said it before...the biggest reason this is so glaring, is the amount of times he's on the "front lines" so to speak, actually getting possession back. First into the corners, pressuring the puck carrier, cordoning them off in an area and dictating their movement with his stick and body.
Now, that doesn't mean Sbisa is a great player or anything. But there are things he does do well. And that Hutton-Sbisa pairing seemed to be helping mitigate his shortcomings as a puck-handling defenceman.
And quite frankly...when Sbisa ****s up...it's because he's trying to do something.
When Weber ****s up...it's usually because he isn't doing anything at all. In addition to his **** ups where he turns the puck over or botches his attempt at avoiding a physical play by throwing the puck away, and because he's not actually a very talented "puck mover" at all. He's an "offensive zone defenceman". That's where he's good...and he hasn't even been that this year.
Just makes watching Weber so immensely frustrating. People give Sven a hard time for being a "perimeter player" and "soft"...my goodness what does that make Weber.
TheWanderer
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biturbo19
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It's absolutely showed at times.
Hutton the last few games especially, has been a lot like McCann. He's had some very high highs, and some very low lows. Some lows that just really can't be happening to an NHL defenceman.
He's still a rookie and he's still growing...there are going to be a ton of ups and downs. That's how it goes, and that's going to be the way this team rolls for the foreseeable future. But i think you've gotta do more to help "insulate" Hutton early, as much as you can. And pairing him with guys like Weber and Bartkowski who do approximately none of the spadework for a pairing, absolutely is not helping him and putting him in a good situation to excel.
Seems to me, the more Hutton has been asked to handle work in the corners and the net front, and cover for partners who go AWOL at the other end of the ice, the worse he's looked.
Need to get him some support ASAP. Though i really don't know how. Sbisa's obviously a no-go due to injury. Hamhuis is a no-go because of the whole not playing his off-side thing. Tanev would do the trick, but this team can hardly afford to "waste" Tanev's ability on the sort of matchups you want Hutton handling. Maybe Biega really is the answer there for now at least, until Sbisa is back. He at least works his ass off and doesn't shy away from the physical play.
They're vocal and confident guys. I'm pretty sure the team doesn't say "oh sbisa and prust your a 4th liner and a bottom pairing Dman so we won't value your contribution to the team". It's a personality thing not a talent thing, tanev and edler the sedins are all pretty quiet guys having some bravado helps.
Ya, I think the key difference is Sbisa's biggest issues come when he has the puck, which can be mitigated somewhat by having him paired with a strong handler like Hutton.
Weber's problems arise most when the opposition has the puck and they target him or his side of the ice. There isn't much that can be done to limit that exposure because the other teams all recognize his weakness and target him heavily.
TL;dr Both are bad but Sbisa can be protected somewhat while Weber can't.
Weber's problems arise most when the opposition has the puck and they target him or his side of the ice. There isn't much that can be done to limit that exposure because the other teams all recognize his weakness and target him heavily.
TL;dr Both are bad but Sbisa can be protected somewhat while Weber can't.
TheWanderer
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It's absolutely showed at times.
Hutton the last few games especially, has been a lot like McCann. He's had some very high highs, and some very low lows. Some lows that just really can't be happening to an NHL defenceman.
He's still a rookie and he's still growing...there are going to be a ton of ups and downs. That's how it goes, and that's going to be the way this team rolls for the foreseeable future. But i think you've gotta do more to help "insulate" Hutton early, as much as you can. And pairing him with guys like Weber and Bartkowski who do approximately none of the spadework for a pairing, absolutely is not helping him and putting him in a good situation to excel.
Seems to me, the more Hutton has been asked to handle work in the corners and the net front, and cover for partners who go AWOL at the other end of the ice, the worse he's looked.
Need to get him some support ASAP. Though i really don't know how. Sbisa's obviously a no-go due to injury. Hamhuis is a no-go because of the whole not playing his off-side thing. Tanev would do the trick, but this team can hardly afford to "waste" Tanev's ability on the sort of matchups you want Hutton handling. Maybe Biega really is the answer there for now at least, until Sbisa is back. He at least works his ass off and doesn't shy away from the physical play.
I don't know how he was so good beside Sbisa. He's the most prone to going AWOL of the bunch!
Tanev still needs to babysit Edler, who has quietly been hot garbage recently.
TheWanderer
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Sbisa and Hutton have great chemistry, when those two are together they're the second pairing in my opinion
NoShowWilly
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Yup Hutton is in no place to be carrying a defensive pair and being together with bartkowski or weber is just asking for problems. He should be paired with a solid vet. Sadly, our only vet RHD that is being used is Tanev. Apparently our vet LHD needs to be babysat though so Hutton gets one of these two.
