Post-Game Talk: Canucks 2 @ Lightning 1 | 22/12/15 | 4:30 PM SNP (MOD Warning: Post #250)

[timorousme]

if your scouting is good enough (which vancouver's isnt) and your gm is good enough (which vancouver's isn't) draft position shouldn't matter.

which is to say no matter what we're ****ed.

 

[Soups On]

Feel like we are ideally situated at the Christmas break. We're through the hardest part of our schedule and in a playoff spot...but we're far enough behind the top teams in the conference that we should still be selling at the deadline.

Our second half shapes up to be better than our first. Markstrom healthy should keep Miller more rested = better overall goaltending. Horvat seems to be waking from his slumber. Baer is earning his "r". Have to eventually start getting some bodies back from injury, and those injuries have given opportunities, which bodes well for line up options. Schedule is easier.

Not a team I'd be looking to add to, but a team that should be playing meaningful games down the stretch, which imo is what's best for development.

My ideal 2nd half is
1 - hover around where we are now in the standings up to the deadline
2 - at deadline, dump vets for picks/prospects
2a - promote prospects to replace vets
3 - make playoffs
4 - gravy

The absolute perfect scenario includes getting an unconditional first rounder from a team that falters down the stretch and then wins the lottery. Playoff experience with the youth taking over and adding a Chychrun/Matthews. That's ideal. Not gonna happen.

Somehow this team is gonna get 10th overall or something. If they do, it'll be reconciled by drafting Fabbro.

 

[Lindgren]

Feel like we are ideally situated at the Christmas break. We're through the hardest part of our schedule and in a playoff spot...but we're far enough behind the top teams in the conference that we should still be selling at the deadline.

Our second half shapes up to be better than our first. Markstrom healthy should keep Miller more rested = better overall goaltending. Horvat seems to be waking from his slumber. Baer is earning his "r". Have to eventually start getting some bodies back from injury, and those injuries have given opportunities, which bodes well for line up options. Schedule is easier.

Not a team I'd be looking to add to, but a team that should be playing meaningful games down the stretch, which imo is what's best for development.

My ideal 2nd half is
1 - hover around where we are now in the standings up to the deadline
2 - at deadline, dump vets for picks/prospects
2a - promote prospects to replace vets
3 - make playoffs
4 - gravy

I'm with you. Call me foolishly optimistic, but I think it's possible that the Canucks could make those deadline deals and actually improve, if a few key guys on the Comets continue to progress (Gaunce, Shinkaruk).

 

[arttk]

I'm with you. Call me foolishly optimistic, but I think it's possible that the Canucks could make those deadline deals and actually improve, if a few key guys on the Comets continue to progress (Gaunce, Shinkaruk).

Also teams team tends to play better when the pressure is off.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Second season in his tenure and the player who is providing the most value for his contract is Adam Cracknell.

Enough said.

 

[alternate]

Second season in his tenure and the player who is providing the most value for his contract is Adam Cracknell.

Enough said.

Vrbata? Tanev?

 

[Wilch]

Vrbata? Tanev?

How can you credit Benning with Tanev when he chose not to give Tanev a sweet heart deal and instead made Tanev sing for his supper, an audition Tanev killed and thus earned a relatively less cap friendly contract?

Also, it's funny you mention Vrbata because he's Benning's best acquisition, yet Benning doesn't seem to think highly of it as he ragged on Vrbata last season.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Vrbata? Tanev?

lol, now Benning is getting credit for Tanev.

 

[Zarpan]

Second season in his tenure and the player who is providing the most value for his contract is Adam Cracknell.

Enough said.

While I think many of the moves that Benning has made are poor, this isn't a good measuring stick.

Cracknell would probably provide the best value compared to contract of non-ELC players acquired during the last two seasons for quite a few teams.

 

[DL44]

Love how we act like the Tanev camp had zero faith in their boy and were forced into a one yr deal.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Second season in his tenure and the player who is providing the most value for his contract is Adam Cracknell.

Enough said.

Cracknell has been pretty damn good lol.

 

[PG Canuck]

I'm with you. Call me foolishly optimistic, but I think it's possible that the Canucks could make those deadline deals and actually improve, if a few key guys on the Comets continue to progress (Gaunce, Shinkaruk).

We've been saying this for what, 3 years and counting now? The dream is dead...we are 6 points from 30th overall with with every team except the Oilers with games in hand.

I just can't wrap my head around people watching this team game in and game out, and still legitimately thinking it's worth selling off assets for a shot in the dark. This team needs way more than depth players at the deadline - that has been evident for 3 plus seasons now.

I'd love to make the playoffs as much as anyone, but this team doesn't stand a chance if they make it. We got beat by ****ing Calgary last year - ****ing Calgary.

 

[PG Canuck]

Vrbata? Tanev?

I need some more alcohol in my eggnog....

 

[VanJack]

I'm with you. Call me foolishly optimistic, but I think it's possible that the Canucks could make those deadline deals and actually improve, if a few key guys on the Comets continue to progress (Gaunce, Shinkaruk).

Totally agree with you....if the 'Nucks can stay in playoff contention without Hamhuis (injured) and Vrbata (a streaky scorer but erratic) then it stands to reason they could trade them both and get assets back that could actually help in the short-term and long-term.

 

[alternate]

How can you credit Benning with Tanev when he chose not to give Tanev a sweet heart deal and instead made Tanev sing for his supper, an audition Tanev killed and thus earned a relatively less cap friendly contract?

Also, it's funny you mention Vrbata because he's Benning's best acquisition, yet Benning doesn't seem to think highly of it as he ragged on Vrbata last season.

lol, now Benning is getting credit for Tanev.

So now we just arbitrarily assign credit for signings when it fits our narrative? Or are you guys suggesting Benning didn't sign Tanev to a good extension?

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

So now we just arbitrarily assign credit for signings when it fits our narrative? Or are you guys suggesting Benning didn't sign Tanev to a good extension?

Sure yeah, Benning is a genius. What a discovery.

 

[thekernel]

Sure yeah, Benning is a genius. What a discovery.

A sarcastic air of superiority doesn't just make the argument wrong.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

A sarcastic air of superiority doesn't just make the argument wrong.

We were very obviously and specifically talking about Benning acquisitions. Chris Tanev was not an acquisition. He was signed to a good extension, but as an RFA was pretty much guaranteed to be on the team unless Benning traded him. I am not about to give Benning much credit for not trading Tanev's rights as an RFA. Talk about setting the lowest of possible bars.

 

[WTG]

So now we just arbitrarily assign credit for signings when it fits our narrative? Or are you guys suggesting Benning didn't sign Tanev to a good extension?

Tanev's contract without context is fine.

But adding context too it's pretty bad. We could have signed him for longer and cheaper if Benning knew what he was doing. Instead he decided to give Tanev a "show me deal". Well Tanev showed him and got his contract. If Benning was smart, which he isn't, he would have known Tanev is a terrific player and should get a big term contract right away.

Now adding that context to Tanev's contract it is bad.


However, we do not know what goes on behind closed doors so all we can do is speculate. What we do know is that Benning is a absolute idiot when it comes to contracts. So the most probable thing that happened it that Benning did not know/understand Tanev's game. He doesn't believe in advanced stats (pretty damn obvious because he signed Sbisa and Dorsett) and he did not value Tanev's game.


Which is more likely? The idiot being a idiot or the idiot being cautious?

 

[alternate]

Tanev's contract without context is fine.

But adding context too it's pretty bad. We could have signed him for longer and cheaper if Benning knew what he was doing. Instead he decided to give Tanev a "show me deal". Well Tanev showed him and got his contract. If Benning was smart, which he isn't, he would have known Tanev is a terrific player and should get a big term contract right away.

Now adding that context to Tanev's contract it is bad.


However, we do not know what goes on behind closed doors so all we can do is speculate. What we do know ise that Benning is a absolute idiot when it comes to contracts. So the most probable thing that happened it that Benning did not know/understand Tanev's game. He doesn't believe in advanced stats (pretty damn obvious because he signed Sbisa and Dorsett) and he did not value Tanev's game.


Which is more likely? The idiot being a idiot or the idiot being cautious?

You have a link confirming Tanev would have signed for cheaper and longer? Or are we just to assume that because some fan on a fan site says he would, that it's fact? Cuz I don't buy it.

As for RJL, if you meant acquisition then say so. Don't expect me to interpret what you mean when you don't say what you intended. Sure Cracknell has been a great signing...but any time a GM signs someone for the farm and he surprises and becomes a contributor to the big club he's going to be one of the best value signings in the GMs tenure. I guess we'll be seeing complaints soon that Benning didn't possess the foresight to sign Cracknell to a multi year deal.

But really your whole point is useless. By your criteria --having to sign someone to acquire them--we've got Vrbata, Cracknell, Miller, Bartkowski and .... ??? Or do the goalposts move so we don't count Tanev's and Webers deals, just the ones you don't like?

 

[WTG]

You have a link confirming Tanev would have signed for cheaper and longer? Or are we just to assume that because some fan on a fan site says he would, that it's fact? Cuz I don't buy it.

As for RJL, if you meant acquisition then say so. Don't expect me to interpret what you mean when you don't say what you intended. Sure Cracknell has been a great signing...but any time a GM signs someone for the farm and he surprises and becomes a contributor to the big club he's going to be one of the best value signings in the GMs tenure. I guess we'll be seeing complaints soon that Benning didn't possess the foresight to sign Cracknell to a multi year deal.

But really your whole point is useless. By your criteria --having to sign someone to acquire them--we've got Vrbata, Cracknell, Miller, Bartkowski and .... ??? Or do the goalposts move so we don't count Tanev's and Webers deals, just the ones you don't like?

Why wouldn't he sign for less?

 

[Huggy]

Blaming a gm for not signing imaginary ufa.

Lel

 

[WTG]

blaming a gm for not signing imaginary ufa.

Lel

rfa.

 

[Hit the post]

Blaming a gm for not signing imaginary ufa.

Lel

rfa.

Yeah...Pizza & Vey.

 

[Lindgren]

We've been saying this for what, 3 years and counting now? The dream is dead...we are 6 points from 30th overall with with every team except the Oilers with games in hand.

I just can't wrap my head around people watching this team game in and game out, and still legitimately thinking it's worth selling off assets for a shot in the dark. This team needs way more than depth players at the deadline - that has been evident for 3 plus seasons now.

I'd love to make the playoffs as much as anyone, but this team doesn't stand a chance if they make it. We got beat by ****ing Calgary last year - ****ing Calgary.

I'm advocating selling off veterans to acquire youth and prospects. You're saying that the dream of doing so is dead? That doesn't make sense.

The optimistic part of my post is that the Canucks can sell and still do well, because the youth brought up from Utica will be ready to succeed, not that new depth acquisitions will lead to a run in the playoffs.