Post-Game Talk: Canucks 2 @ Lightning 1 | 22/12/15 | 4:30 PM SNP (MOD Warning: Post #250)

StIllmatic

Registered User
Mar 27, 2010
4,754
0
Vancouver
Good team win in the face of bizarre reffing. PK was immense.

3 main points to take from this game:

1) Markstrom looks very good and should get a run of games. Ridiculous to keep playing a dinosaur crap goalie every night for a team in our situation.

2) Alex Biega should never play another game in the AHL. And is a young enough player to be a long-term contributor here (only a year younger than Tanev). This is the point where a smart GM would trade on the player's desire for security to get him signed to a sweetheart deal for 2-3 more years. Guy is a player and a leader. And our 3rd-best defender right now.

3) Baertschi is looking better with more opportunity. Focus over the last 45 games should be on getting him 15 minutes every night to see what we have and if he can develop with more confidence.

Tanev and Edler were immense tonight. Massive performance. Dorsett also had one of his best games as a Canuck, was excellent in the 2nd period in particular.

All are great points and true. I said the same thing about Biega myself. He could be a top four defenseman and he is playing like one right now. Smart player and extremely feisty for his size. A good passer and has some weight on his shot as well.

Like others have said though, it is highly likely that they manage to much up all 3.
 

Shareefruck

Registered User
Apr 2, 2005
28,956
3,688
Vancouver, BC
I agree with your previous analysis post, but I tire of all the doom predictions before they actually happen posts. Not directed completely at you, but I am speaking in general.
It has just become the norm here to throw out reasonable analysis and then follow that up with some statement saying management will never see this and they suck, etc. That sure seems like a loaded argument to me, and it gets tiresome.
There is also a very specific and known group consistent with that strategy.
Tiresome and redundant.

Willie makes a roster or strategy decision that contradicts their doom and gloom 'he'll never..' statement.. And they seamlessly move to the next one...
Over n over.
First, the idea that it's a "strategy" is moronic, IMO. At worse, it's a measured defensive mechanism (like telling yourself that the team still might choke in the playoffs when we're up), at best it's a sincere impression of how trends look.

Doom and gloom should only be considered tiresome if you find negative thoughts inherently deplorable, which you really shouldn't-- I would suggest that you learn to take it in stride and be less possessive about these things.

Besides, being pessimistic should not be lumped together with treating it like a foregone conclusion. If someone's making baseless statements and treating it like fact, then sure, criticize how unwarranted they are for jumping the gun. But in general, there are no grounds to criticize or take issue with comments like MS', because he's not making statements about what will happen, he's suspecting and dreading what might based on what he's seen. When an impression is "contradicted" or turns out to be wrong, it's not a situation where someone is obligated to "eat crow" for having that kind of valid feeling.

The whole idea that people have an "agenda" with certain viewpoints is ridiculous in general, and I hear it too often. People's impressions of players are informed by reinforced experience. If something contradicts the trend (like Sbisa having a good game, or Hamhuis making equally bad errors even though he's been rock steady in past seasons), that doesn't and shouldn't automatically wipe the slate clean and reverse your impression-- it takes prolongued contradiction to do that. Bias obviously exists game to game, but for the most part, it's informed bias that gets corrected by consistency. Do you really think people will stubbornly hold onto the idea that Sbisa is awful if he starts plays reasonably solid hockey for a full season or if Benning has a good offseason or two? Of course not.

The only case I can think of where I get the feeling that there might be an agenda is Y2KCanucks Luongo/Sedin thing (even then, I can see where he's coming from regarding his attitude about the Sedins, it's just the Luongo contrast that makes you raise your eyebrows). But we're way too quick to jump on that assumption in general-- most of the time it's perfectly rational and logical behavior.

On the flip side, I actually instead get very tired of blind optimism, but my defense would be that I only find it annoying because it's ignoring all the signs/patterns and not because I'm inherently put off by the idea of positivity (which appears to me to be the case when your complaint is brought up). I would love to be optimistic about what Benning/Desjardin's future moves, but personally, I can't comprehend someone feeling good about what they've done to date, so it's hard to imagine that optimism right now is based on anything rational.
 
Last edited:

thepuckmonster

Professional Winner.
Oct 25, 2011
31,251
684
Vancouver
Good team win in the face of bizarre reffing. PK was immense.

3 main points to take from this game:

1) Markstrom looks very good and should get a run of games. Ridiculous to keep playing a dinosaur crap goalie every night for a team in our situation.

2) Alex Biega should never play another game in the AHL. And is a young enough player to be a long-term contributor here (only a year younger than Tanev). This is the point where a smart GM would trade on the player's desire for security to get him signed to a sweetheart deal for 2-3 more years. Guy is a player and a leader. And our 3rd-best defender right now.

3) Baertschi is looking better with more opportunity. Focus over the last 45 games should be on getting him 15 minutes every night to see what we have and if he can develop with more confidence.

Tanev and Edler were immense tonight. Massive performance. Dorsett also had one of his best games as a Canuck, was excellent in the 2nd period in particular.

Not to nitpick but Biega is an '88 and Tanev is a late '89 so technically Tanev is a year younger than Biega. :sarcasm:
 

Jyrki21

2021-12-05
Sponsor
Don't care if we had 10 penalties
WD shouldn't be riding the regular pkers so hard, especially on the end of a long road trip
You have to get your other players ice time at times as well
1) Markstrom looks very good and should get a run of games. Ridiculous to keep playing a dinosaur crap goalie every night for a team in our situation.

2) Alex Biega should never play another game in the AHL. And is a young enough player to be a long-term contributor here (only a year younger than Tanev). This is the point where a smart GM would trade on the player's desire for security to get him signed to a sweetheart deal for 2-3 more years. Guy is a player and a leader. And our 3rd-best defender right now.

3) Baertschi is looking better with more opportunity. Focus over the last 45 games should be on getting him 15 minutes every night to see what we have and if he can develop with more confidence.
Marky should get at least 1/3 games from now on. Forget about Miller's age and all the other stuff, Markström's play warrants it.
[...]
Biega should never see the inside of the Aud again.
I don't even expect them to keep Biega on the team once Sbisa and Hamhuis comes back.
whiteboard_zpswofj7r4f.jpg


Sorry for the double post but I wanted to say something about Miller's "calming veteran presence". It's sort of a joke around here but you could see he was genuinely happy for Marky and they seem to get along very well. Eddie and Miller were friendly but as Eddie is Eddie I was still unsure of Miller. It does seem like he's a better mentor (ish) than some rumors had it about him being difficult to back up.
Was this something seen off-ice? Because that was Cannata who was backing up Markström.
 

coldsteel79

Registered User
Sep 28, 2015
1,967
70
sask
Good team win in the face of bizarre reffing. PK was immense.

3 main points to take from this game:

1) Markstrom looks very good and should get a run of games. Ridiculous to keep playing a dinosaur crap goalie every night for a team in our situation.

2) Alex Biega should never play another game in the AHL. And is a young enough player to be a long-term contributor here (only a year younger than Tanev). This is the point where a smart GM would trade on the player's desire for security to get him signed to a sweetheart deal for 2-3 more years. Guy is a player and a leader. And our 3rd-best defender right now.

3) Baertschi is looking better with more opportunity. Focus over the last 45 games should be on getting him 15 minutes every night to see what we have and if he can develop with more confidence.

Tanev and Edler were immense tonight. Massive performance. Dorsett also had one of his best games as a Canuck, was excellent in the 2nd period in particular.

Good analysis but Tanev served up two pizzas that marky had to bail him out on, other than those though he played like usual
 

damack

Registered User
Jan 3, 2014
402
12
Was this something seen off-ice? Because that was Cannata who was backing up Markström.

yes, there was some video of the team entering the dressing room post game and Miller was congratulating Markstrom, it's on the Canucks twitter feed.
 

Mr. Canucklehead

Kitimat Canuck
Dec 14, 2002
40,520
31,357
Kitimat, BC
The officiating in this one brought back memories of 2011. That was just absurd. Given the state of this team and the way we've played this year, I'm absolutely stunned we managed to pull out a win.

Markstrom with a huge game is nice to see, but it's also nice to see Baertschi riding a bit of a hot streak. He and Horvat have looked far better than they have for the majority of the season over these last few games. Obviously Baertschi isn't going to keep scoring a goal a game, but hopefully it's the start of these guys providing a consistent secondary offensive presence.

I also thought Adam Cracknell played a great game up front. He was smart with the puck, solid defensively, everything you'd want out of him. He might be the best bargain signing of Benning's tenure thus far (not setting the bar very high, but he has been a quality addition).

Seeing Daniel shoot the puck and finish like he has this season has also been a huge treat. Interesting to note after the game that he said he's playing with more confidence.
 

Johnny Canucker

Registered User
Jan 4, 2009
17,750
6,116
The officiating in this one brought back memories of 2011. That was just absurd. Given the state of this team and the way we've played this year, I'm absolutely stunned we managed to pull out a win.

Markstrom with a huge game is nice to see, but it's also nice to see Baertschi riding a bit of a hot streak. He and Horvat have looked far better than they have for the majority of the season over these last few games. Obviously Baertschi isn't going to keep scoring a goal a game, but hopefully it's the start of these guys providing a consistent secondary offensive presence.

I also thought Adam Cracknell played a great game up front. He was smart with the puck, solid defensively, everything you'd want out of him. He might be the best bargain signing of Benning's tenure thus far (not setting the bar very high, but he has been a quality addition).

Seeing Daniel shoot the puck and finish like he has this season has also been a huge treat. Interesting to note after the game that he said he's playing with more confidence.


I agree with ally of what you said except for the officials. Every penalty we took was deserved. Henrik said so in the post game scrum too. Just because the numbers didn't even out, doesn't mean the penalties weren't warranted. I think we got lucky to win the game cuz Stamkos hitting the crossbar in the middle of the 3rd probably ends the game.


Any update on Tanev foot? Took a slapper right off the ankle. Any bone break etc?
 

J Canuck

Registered User
Mar 19, 2013
500
6
the couch
I think in a well called game, penalties would have been around 8-3, but that wouldn't have been nearly as funny. If Hansen got the only call on that dive, it would have been icing on a hilarious cupcake.:xcheers:
 

Josepho

i want the bartkowski thread back
Jan 1, 2015
14,797
8,336
British Columbia
I agree with ally of what you said except for the officials. Every penalty we took was deserved. Henrik said so in the post game scrum too. Just because the numbers didn't even out, doesn't mean the penalties weren't warranted. I think we got lucky to win the game cuz Stamkos hitting the crossbar in the middle of the 3rd probably ends the game.


Any update on Tanev foot? Took a slapper right off the ankle. Any bone break etc?

The main annoying thing was the part that Tampa Bay got away for doing worse **** than we did.
 

StrictlyCommercial

Registered User
Oct 28, 2006
8,473
999
Vancouver
I agree with ally of what you said except for the officials. Every penalty we took was deserved. Henrik said so in the post game scrum too. Just because the numbers didn't even out, doesn't mean the penalties weren't warranted. I think we got lucky to win the game cuz Stamkos hitting the crossbar in the middle of the 3rd probably ends the game.


Any update on Tanev foot? Took a slapper right off the ankle. Any bone break etc?

Bart penalty?
Hansen's 'dive' was him getting shoved in the lower back..

A lot of the calls were weak and not called in 99% of hockey games.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,683
84,506
Vancouver, BC
The early penalty calls were softer than the later ones.

The issue isn't that it was 10-1, if the league allowed that to happen regularly. Sometimes it probably should happen. But in a league where officials 'game manage' pretty much every single night, there has to be some consistency.

There have been tons of games where we should have had a substantial PP advantage but were game managed back to around 50%.

And of course, it harks back to 2011, where with one of the most dominant possession teams ever we somehow only had more PPs than the opposition once in a 3-month stretch.
 

Jarko2004

Registered User
Sep 15, 2004
1,024
18
Vancouver Island
I agree with ally of what you said except for the officials. Every penalty we took was deserved. Henrik said so in the post game scrum too. Just because the numbers didn't even out, doesn't mean the penalties weren't warranted. I think we got lucky to win the game cuz Stamkos hitting the crossbar in the middle of the 3rd probably ends the game.


Any update on Tanev foot? Took a slapper right off the ankle. Any bone break etc?

If every action that's a penalty according to the rulebook isn't called (which is every game, NHL's choice) and the penalties end up 10 to 1, somebody is cheating/attempting to fix the result. How do you decide which penalties to ignore? Shouldn't the non-calls generally even out?
Henrik Sedin has nothing to gain by calling the NHL what it is, severely crooked. He's an entertainer being paid a wage. In his case, as a fall guy or straight man for the Boston Bruins or the Tampa Lightning or whoever.
The loser is the Canadian hockey who buys tickets, absords TV sponsor spots, and myself pathetically posting on this site rather than working.
 

Toxic0n

We are all mumps
Dec 10, 2008
1,948
66
Tank nation
I saw a stat a few games ago, saying that the Canucks were leading the league in PP opportunities. I guess you do get more of them if your PP sucks. Or maybe it's Benning working his old boys club magic.

Seems like the refs last night were stuck in 2011 though.
 

Jyrki21

2021-12-05
Sponsor
The issue isn't that it was 10-1, if the league allowed that to happen regularly. Sometimes it probably should happen. But in a league where officials 'game manage' pretty much every single night, there has to be some consistency.
Exactly -- I would applaud it if the league was actually sincere about it in any way. As I wrote on PITB:

I only watched the third period, and thought the penalty calls were fair for the most part, except for Hansen's diving call. Yes, I'm sure he embellished, like 100% of other NHLers would in that situation. But NHL refs always look for an even-up call when the penalties are that lopsided (even though they shouldn't, but they always do), and wasn't that an obvious spot to call one? He had generated a scoring chance for himself, and he was restrained. What's worse, as Shorthouse pointed out, the refs weren't even planning on calling the hook at first -- only the dive.
 

Johnny Canucker

Registered User
Jan 4, 2009
17,750
6,116
If every action that's a penalty according to the rulebook isn't called (which is every game, NHL's choice) and the penalties end up 10 to 1, somebody is cheating/attempting to fix the result. How do you decide which penalties to ignore? Shouldn't the non-calls generally even out?
Henrik Sedin has nothing to gain by calling the NHL what it is, severely crooked. He's an entertainer being paid a wage. In his case, as a fall guy or straight man for the Boston Bruins or the Tampa Lightning or whoever.
The loser is the Canadian hockey who buys tickets, absords TV sponsor spots, and myself pathetically posting on this site rather than working.

Tin foil hat lol.
 

alicia

~
Apr 11, 2011
1,544
799
Vancouver, B.C
The officiating in this one brought back memories of 2011. That was just absurd. Given the state of this team and the way we've played this year, I'm absolutely stunned we managed to pull out a win.

Markstrom with a huge game is nice to see, but it's also nice to see Baertschi riding a bit of a hot streak. He and Horvat have looked far better than they have for the majority of the season over these last few games. Obviously Baertschi isn't going to keep scoring a goal a game, but hopefully it's the start of these guys providing a consistent secondary offensive presence.

I also thought Adam Cracknell played a great game up front. He was smart with the puck, solid defensively, everything you'd want out of him. He might be the best bargain signing of Benning's tenure thus far (not setting the bar very high, but he has been a quality addition).

Seeing Daniel shoot the puck and finish like he has this season has also been a huge treat. Interesting to note after the game that he said he's playing with more confidence.

I've liked Adam Cracknell since the day he scored in that Kraft Hockey pre-season game. (Latched onto him a bit knowing he's from my
city) and have been very impressed with his work ethic in every game this far.

You can't really ask for a better 4th liner, he's one of the most consistent players on this team alongside the Sedins.
 

mathonwy

Positively #toxic
Jan 21, 2008
19,121
10,074
I've liked Adam Cracknell since the day he scored in that Kraft Hockey pre-season game. (Latched onto him a bit knowing he's from my
city) and have been very impressed with his work ethic in every game this far.

You can't really ask for a better 4th liner, he's one of the most consistent players on this team alongside the Sedins.

Adam Cracknell is having a 14/15 Dorsett type of year.

He'll earn a big raise and then.... who knows.
 

VanillaCoke

Registered User
Oct 30, 2013
25,405
11,849
Rewatching the game with the Tbay broadcast, it's nice to get away from garret and his eating habits.
But the discussion on American broadcasts are painful too.
 

alternate

Win the week!
Jun 9, 2006
8,180
3,084
victoria
Feel like we are ideally situated at the Christmas break. We're through the hardest part of our schedule and in a playoff spot...but we're far enough behind the top teams in the conference that we should still be selling at the deadline.

Our second half shapes up to be better than our first. Markstrom healthy should keep Miller more rested = better overall goaltending. Horvat seems to be waking from his slumber. Baer is earning his "r". Have to eventually start getting some bodies back from injury, and those injuries have given opportunities, which bodes well for line up options. Schedule is easier.

Not a team I'd be looking to add to, but a team that should be playing meaningful games down the stretch, which imo is what's best for development.

My ideal 2nd half is
1 - hover around where we are now in the standings up to the deadline
2 - at deadline, dump vets for picks/prospects
2a - promote prospects to replace vets
3 - make playoffs
4 - gravy
 

alternate

Win the week!
Jun 9, 2006
8,180
3,084
victoria
Why would you want to make the playoffs?

Tank, Tank, Tank

Nah, rather get playoff experience for Bo and the next core. The Sedins have lots left in the tank, I want the push from below getting fast tracked development, and imo playoff races and games do that.

As long as Benning can keeep pulling McCanns and Boesers out of the latter third of the first, I don't really care where we draft. I'm also assuming we pick up additional picks at the deadline.
 

WTG

December 5th
Jan 11, 2015
23,887
7,982
Pickle Time Deli & Market
Nah, rather get playoff experience for Bo and the next core. The Sedins have lots left in the tank, I want the push from below getting fast tracked development, and imo playoff races and games do that.

As long as Benning can keeep pulling McCanns and Boesers out of the latter third of the first, I don't really care where we draft. I'm also assuming we pick up additional picks at the deadline.

Being in a playoff race might mean not adding additional picks at the deadline.

Plus, I like McCann and Boeser but they aren't elite talents like Matthews/Chychrun/Laine that go top 3. We need players that the Sedins can pass the torch on.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

  • Toulouse vs Montpellier
    Toulouse vs Montpellier
    Wagers: 3
    Staked: $246.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:
  • Hoffenheim vs RB Leipzig
    Hoffenheim vs RB Leipzig
    Wagers: 4
    Staked: $8,351.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:
  • Torino vs Bologna
    Torino vs Bologna
    Wagers: 3
    Staked: $810.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:
  • Luton Town vs Everton
    Luton Town vs Everton
    Wagers: 4
    Staked: $1,010.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:
  • Getafe vs Athletic Bilbao
    Getafe vs Athletic Bilbao
    Wagers: 1
    Staked: $10.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:

Ad

Ad