Post-Game Talk: Canes 1, Panthers 6 - Luongo #400

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Panthers Rock

Rebuild 10.0
Apr 17, 2006
6,286
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Winter Springs, FL
So correct me if I'm wrong, but if Boston AND Detroit get 2 more points, we are eliminated right? The most points the Panthers can get at this point looks to be 95 if they win out. Both Boston and Detroit are at 93. Panthers lose the ROW tie-breaker to both which I believe is the first tie-breaker (unless it's head-to-head in which case Panthers win that against Detroit for sure).

In any case, no matter what happens, last night's game was a joy to watch for the most part. Pirri remains red hot, that top line is just poetry in motion, can you imagine that for a full season? I can't see Jagr not coming back, he's totally re-signing here.

Dominating Carolina? Feels good, man.
 

PanthersHockey1

South by Southeast
Mar 11, 2010
14,102
4,826
Palm Trees
Offensively, yes. Defensively, he was a mess like any other night.

Looking back it, Vincent "he could easily replace Barkov" Trocheck seems quite tragicomical now.

Imho he would be a great piece to send over in a kessel play. He fits in Toronto perfectly fast, some scoring prowess, a complete liability defensively & bound never to meet expectations.
 

panthersfan94

#CatsAreComing
Jan 23, 2014
2,008
11
Nashville, TN
2. We need a proven D-man. It would help Ekblad as well in his development, like Jagr is doing to his forward partners. Also helps when other defense players have a crap game to have somebody who can pick us up there.

3. You have to have snipers who score from distance, to break open a good blocking defense and spread it as well. If you only score from the crease or in front of the goal, elite defenders just pack it in and you end up with 152 shots and no goal. Especially Playoffs. Look at Washington, Ovechkin is a prime example. He is such an unpredictable scorer.

2. You're not just going to be able to get an elite defenseman.

3. Pirri can score from anywhere, we've seen that this year. Also, I suggest you watch the Kings. They won the Stanley Cup last year with no player who would fit what you described. If we are able to move the puck well, it'll break up the defense just as much. I'm all for getting another scorer, but not if we have to sell the farm for him.
 

ShootIt

Registered User
Nov 8, 2008
17,996
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2. You're not just going to be able to get an elite defenseman.

3. Pirri can score from anywhere, we've seen that this year. Also, I suggest you watch the Kings. They won the Stanley Cup last year with no player who would fit what you described. If we are able to move the puck well, it'll break up the defense just as much. I'm all for getting another scorer, but not if we have to sell the farm for him.

Just call 1-800-ELITE-DM for another one. Just that easy. :sarcasm:
The only way we get another top defenseman is via the draft/developing guys like Matheson. Might be a long shot for him, but if he can become the next Brian Campbell, a Matheson-Ekblad pairing would be one hell of a top pairing.
As for the 3rd one, I agree. I think Tallon will call and listen to demands/offers for guys like Kessel, Sharp and any other "scorer" on the trade block. However, I doubt he sells any big pieces for anyone. Pirri is developing very nicely, Bjugstad has a cannon and hopefully our prospects like Grimaldi continue to work on their game.

I think the FO would feel comfortable with Jussi as the other winger for the second line alongside Bjugstad and Pirri.

I would like Sharp, but we'll just have to see what unfolds.
 

batting1k

Registered User
Mar 3, 2013
19,494
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So correct me if I'm wrong, but if Boston AND Detroit get 2 more points, we are eliminated right? The most points the Panthers can get at this point looks to be 95 if they win out. Both Boston and Detroit are at 93. Panthers lose the ROW tie-breaker to both which I believe is the first tie-breaker (unless it's head-to-head in which case Panthers win that against Detroit for sure).

Correct. We'd have to win our remaining 4 AND hope that one or both Boston and Detroit lose their all remaining games in regulation, and then we'd have have to hope that Ottawa doesn't take a spot.

Just won't happen. I'm all for being optimistic and I love this team to death, but there's a point where you draw the line. It's just not a realistic expectation.
 

Crossbar

Registered User
Apr 29, 2003
6,676
777
48" above the ice
Let me know which UFA or likely to be traded defenseman is better than Brian Campbell
I'll take which ever Flames d-man Calgary decides not to keep out of Gio, Wideman or Russell for starters, but I'd pretty much take anyone to get rid of Campbell's caphit, on no planet should he be making more than Erik Karlsson.
 

Crossbar

Registered User
Apr 29, 2003
6,676
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48" above the ice
I'd also take Phaneuf if Toronto eats up some of his salary (which they seem like they might do). Guy isn't the greatest, but puts up as many points as Campbell does and actually plays a physical game at 30 years old.
 

adam graves

Panther 20 yr sth
Feb 24, 2010
9,257
1
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Offensively, yes. Defensively, he was a mess like any other night.

Looking back it, Vincent "he could easily replace Barkov" Trocheck seems quite tragicomical now.

Rofl I don't even know where to start soups.

How tragic comical was it when Barky caused the big bruin goal?

Tro and Barky are kids. They'll both make their share of mistakes.

Unless traded, trocheck is ur 3rd line center next yr, get comfy. Cause he's not an over the hill slow center who can't score goals and sucks at face offs.

The future is bright
 

FrolikFan67

Registered User
Apr 29, 2012
7,173
3,282
He was a third rounder.

even better haha i don't know what peoples expectations were of trocheck that he currently isnt living up to?

i hope he's the full-time 3rd line center next season with bolland on the 4th. not saying bolland can't play on the 3rd, he absolutely can, its just with bollards struggle to stay healthy i think it'd be better to have him on the 4th (you could play trocheck at 4th instead but id rather bolland because trocheck isnt that big and isnt a grinder) and mac on the wing.
 

vendetta

#CatsAreComing
Mar 22, 2011
14,725
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Rofl I don't even know where to start soups.

How tragic comical was it when Barky caused the big bruin goal?

Tro and Barky are kids. They'll both make their share of mistakes.

Unless traded, trocheck is ur 3rd line center next yr, get comfy. Cause he's not an over the hill slow center who can't score goals and sucks at face offs.

The future is bright

Ha no he isn't bolland is better than tro and has 3rd line c locked up... tro converts to wing or I don't see him staying
 

SoupyFIN

#OneTerritory
Nov 7, 2011
41,382
3,380
Rofl I don't even know where to start soups.

How tragic comical was it when Barky caused the big bruin goal?

Tro and Barky are kids. They'll both make their share of mistakes.

Unless traded, trocheck is ur 3rd line center next yr, get comfy. Cause he's not an over the hill slow center who can't score goals and sucks at face offs.

The future is bright
How does Barkov making one big mistake have anything to do with it? Trocheck makes those kind of mistakes and poor defensive reads on a nightly basis. How often can you recall Barkov doing a poor defensive play? Exactly, very rarely.

Also why even bring Bolland to this? We've been through it so many times already, Bolland is ten times the defensive player that Trocheck is. Yeah the kid has offensive skills (when he has the mojo, which has been lacking recently), speed and good at faceoffs, but those traits can only take him so far when he gets outplayed in his own zone shift after shift.

My point was that there was a strong movement here during the beginning of the season when Barkov was playing poorly offensively, that Trocheck's good play (which lasted about 10 games) is making Barkov expendable and that he should be used as trade bait.
 

adam graves

Panther 20 yr sth
Feb 24, 2010
9,257
1
south florida
How does Barkov making one big mistake have anything to do with it? Trocheck makes those kind of mistakes and poor defensive reads on a nightly basis. How often can you recall Barkov doing a poor defensive play? Exactly, very rarely.

Also why even bring Bolland to this? We've been through it so many times already, Bolland is ten times the defensive player that Trocheck is. Yeah the kid has offensive skills (when he has the mojo, which has been lacking recently), speed and good at faceoffs, but those traits can only take him so far when he gets outplayed in his own zone shift after shift.

My point was that there was a strong movement here during the beginning of the season when Barkov was playing poorly offensively, that Trocheck's good play (which lasted about 10 games) is making Barkov expendable and that he should be used as trade bait.

Because you type trocheck makes " poor defensive reads" on a nightly basis is true doesn't make it. Cause it's not.

Because you type bolland is 10 x the defensive player doesn't make that true either. He can't win half the faceoff which leads to putting your team on the defense. He is so pathetically so its laughable. He turns the puck over with too much ease (see Montreal game, remember the shorty?) and takes many tragicomical penalties.

Nothing but applause should be for trocheck performsnce last night including 60+ % faceoff wins AGAIN. And when you win those it is a defensive play as it keeps their O from attacking. You know like winning the faceoff against staal leading to the lst goal.

That said, barkov was awful for a 1/4 of the season. It's uncontroverted. If you WERENT thinking of alternate plans you were tragicomical.
 

Boothinator

@MrBoothinator
Sep 19, 2009
6,233
3,019
Because you type trocheck makes " poor defensive reads" on a nightly basis is true doesn't make it. Cause it's not.

Because you type bolland is 10 x the defensive player doesn't make that true either. He can't win half the faceoff which leads to putting your team on the defense. He is so pathetically so its laughable. He turns the puck over with too much ease (see Montreal game, remember the shorty?) and takes many tragicomical penalties.

Nothing but applause should be for trocheck performsnce last night including 60+ % faceoff wins AGAIN. And when you win those it is a defensive play as it keeps their O from attacking. You know like winning the faceoff against staal leading to the lst goal.

That said, barkov was awful for a 1/4 of the season. It's uncontroverted. If you WERENT thinking of alternate plans you were tragicomical.

And when Bolland takes a penalty our PK gives up goal often. Go figure
 

RainingRats

Registered User
Dec 28, 2008
21,649
4,797
Maybe we could trade Bolland in a package for Kessel. The Leafs were rumored to want to sign him but only for 5mill a year.
 

SoupyFIN

#OneTerritory
Nov 7, 2011
41,382
3,380
Because you type trocheck makes " poor defensive reads" on a nightly basis is true doesn't make it. Cause it's not.
I don't know what games you've been watching, but it's been that way for a long time. Trocheck has been very poor (both offensively and defensively) since that hot streak he had in November/start of December.

First 14 games (Nov 1 - Dec 1): 2+9
Next 14 games (before he got sent down): 2+0
18 games after re-called: 3+6 (2+1 of those coming in the last game)

His numbers doesn't justify the defensive lapses in his game.

Because you type bolland is 10 x the defensive player doesn't make that true either. He can't win half the faceoff which leads to putting your team on the defense. He is so pathetically so its laughable. He turns the puck over with too much ease (see Montreal game, remember the shorty?) and takes many tragicomical penalties.
So one trait is enough to warrant case closed in Trocheck vs. Bolland? There's so much more to hockey than just faceoffs and you should know that.

Bolland turns the puck over? Have you watched Trocheck play this season, seriously? He turns the puck over just as much, if not even more than Bolland. Also recently he's passed Bolland in the stupid offensive zone penalty category, so that argument is a no-go.

Nothing but applause should be for trocheck performsnce last night including 60+ % faceoff wins AGAIN. And when you win those it is a defensive play as it keeps their O from attacking. You know like winning the faceoff against staal leading to the lst goal.
Again, you're using one stat to justify Trocheck's superiority.

Before he scored those goals, I remember thinking (and I more than likely said this in the GDT) that how disappointing he's been yet again and a defensive liability. Scoring two goals in a meaningless game that was already 4-0 at that point and winning faceoffs won't change his poor defensive effort.

That said, barkov was awful for a 1/4 of the season. It's uncontroverted. If you WERENT thinking of alternate plans you were tragicomical.
So I was tragicomical, for seeing that our young 1C was struggling offensively, but still bringing it defensively every night? Umm, I can't see what's tragicomical about that, it's called not being short-sighted. Asking for your franchise forward to be traded because of a small sample size (in his sophomore season no less) is comical, there's no way around it.

I really can't get my head around how you refuse to acknowledge Trocheck's deficiencies, like he's some holy cow that can't be criticized. Playing the line-up that gives you the best chance to win is all that matters, not the players age or how much they're getting paid. Fact is that Bolland with all his negatives is still a better defensive player than Trocheck and Vinny will be lucky if he'll ever reach the kind of defensive mind that Bolland has, which is what you want from a 3C.

If Trocheck makes the roster next season as a winger, he can still take draws, there's no rules against that. There's no point in playing him at center solely because he's better than Bolland at faceoffs, especially since his defensive game is lacking and wingers have less defensive responsibility, which in turn can help bring out Vinny's offensive game more.
 
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adam graves

Panther 20 yr sth
Feb 24, 2010
9,257
1
south florida
I don't watch the games soups.

I ATTEND the games. Most all of em. Gives me a huge advantage to lol while I watch bolland trail play after play and lumber one end to the other. It's tragicomicall

Trocheck makes errors no doubt. He's a healthy 21yo without a full season of nhl.

I don't get your love affair with bolland but your entitled to be a fan.
Please go on record here and say you think bolland will only be better and trocheck will be worse next year.

I don't see that as rationally possible. I don't think your guy can play 50 games win half the faceoffs or score 10 goals. And the data shows it. I don't think you can make the playoffs with him as 3c.

I think my guy showed his upside yesterday and in nov-dec before that tragicomical db63 came back and our play tanked.
 
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