Confirmed with Link: Canadiens Will Pick 5th (Hughes Presser in OP) NO POLITICS

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ReHabs

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Again, it’s not a flip side from my standpoint. Whether they take him or not, I choose to fully trust them to leave no stone unturned. I get the sense that I wouldn’t have been able to count on that high level of due diligence say with prior management.

I’m assuming that there will be drafting teams who will not have gone as in depth as the Habs will have gone in managing their risk and arriving at their ultimate decision. All I’m saying is as long as they do this, it doesn’t matter to me whether they select Michkov or not.

I’m glad I’m not on the hot seat for whatever comes out of this process. I suspect there will be a high F-bomb ratio in the war room.
Yeah I’m not so wed to Michkov exactly, because I trust they will do their due diligence. I hope they don’t discount Michkov only because of his contract though.

That said, I feel one of Smith or Michkov will be available and they should pick him.
 
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Runner77

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Yeah I’m not so we’d to Michkov exactly, because I trust they will do their due diligence. I hope they don’t discount Michkov only because of his contract though.

That said, I feel one of Smith or Michkov will be available and they should pick him.
Well, they may discount him for the contract to some extent if at all but that would be offset by whatever other positives emerge in the wash.

I doubt Smith falls to them without a trade for the 4OA but that’s just my humble opinion.
 

Grate n Colorful Oz

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In Michkov case, more than anyone actually, interviews will play a major role.
Scouts, GM, Insiders....everyone agree with this one.
Since we don't and won't have access to that part, it become almost impossible to make a good judgment call as fans....and it sucks.

PLUS...the owner has his word to say on this one and this is an owner who were not really comfortable with Subban as one of the face of the franchise.....

Was that really Molson or Therrien and Bergevin?
 

HabbyGuy

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There is no flip side for me. I’m just looking for Hughes and his people to conduct as thorough a due diligence process as they can muster.

I know they will do that because I get the impression that Hughes and Gorton espouse those standards.

After that, let the chips fall where they may.

That's all we can ask for at the end of the day.
 
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Andrei79

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LOL this is not at all my position, but you be you.

Sorry man, didn't want to make fun of you or imply that was your position (serious). You're a respectful and fun chap so that wasn't the intention Just having some fun after you said you wanted to know if Hughes would have taken Michkov if Michkov was gone by the pick. The image of Hughes going wild like that front stage just made me chuckle and being the immoral, unrestrained lad that I am, I had to post it for all to see.
 
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HabbyGuy

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That and you using that Cocky Jogger clip again. :sarcasm:

This jogger is gassed. lol

Sorry man, didn't want to make fun of you or imply that was your position (serious). You're a respectful and fun chap so that wasn't the intention Just having some fun after you said you wanted to know if Hughes would have taken Michkov if Michkov was gone by the pick..

I still want to know. :)
 

waffledave

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This is exactly right.

But on the flip side, if we take Michkov and the Russisn factor prevents Michkov from coming over, I personally won't be mad at Hughes, and rather will still admire him for swinging for an offensive star, a potential generational talent.

At any rate they still might not think some aspects of his game translate well to the NHL.

If we drafted him and he doesn't come over I will be furious. It's the same thing as a
drafting a pure bust at 5th overall. Unforgivable.
 

HabbyGuy

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If we drafted him and he doesn't come over I will be furious. It's the same thing as a
drafting a pure bust at 5th overall. Unforgivable.

So whoever the pick, be it Smith or Leonard or Reinbacher or Michkov. If they bust it will be unforgivable?

I'm just trying to understand your position.

We don't need to get into a heated debate, I'm far too drained for that. A simple yes or no will suffice.
 

Habfan10

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In a wow draft day scenario would you rather have the Habs trade up for the #2 pick or create a trade scenario where they pick #5 and say #8?
 

ReHabs

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Drafting Americans has a huge risk attached, it is undeniable now.

Noah Hanfin is yet the latest American player to stick a knife in his organization's side and destroy his trade value by insisting to play in the USA. He follows a string of other players, including former Habs Assistant Captain Jeff Petry who signed a mega extension in his mid-30s and then immediately demanded a trade away and started dogging it all year until he got his way.

The American Factor is a huge risk factor at this point. And it won't get any better. I think it makes the risk of picking an American prospect, where basically you can't even expect them to honour their guaranteed contracts at this point, quite unpalatable. How long until Cole Caufield starts to yearn for the US? Will he finish his contract as a Hab? We can only hope and pray.

Given the ferocity of these trade requests and bolting away, I wouldn't risk picking an American with the 5OA unless I was certain he was in for the long haul -- but that's the problem, even when they say they're in and they sign contracts indicating they're in they STILL change their minds and disrupt roster planning (at best) or totally drop tools like Petry did.

 

yianik

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Exactly

You couldn’t teach Michkov’s offensive instincts in a million years

We have to ditch this Bergevin-esque thinking where we want to turn a potential 50g 100pt player into a grinder
Goes back further than Bergevin. Jacques Demers was the last coach, until MSL to be okay letting the players off leash to play their offensive game. He was also great with young guys. The GMs just kept hiring strongly defensive minded coaches.
 

sampollock

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Swinging for a prospect like Michkov is much more forgivable than purposefully skipping him and seeing him thrive elsewhere. It's not even debateable.
thing is...he is no given either.... little and to play in the NHL , he needs to have big boy nads
 

26Mats

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If we drafted him and he doesn't come over I will be furious. It's the same thing as a
drafting a pure bust at 5th overall. Unforgivable.
To each their own. I'm ready to swing for the fences. Tired of mediocrity.

Drafting Americans has a huge risk attached, it is undeniable now.

Noah Hanfin is yet the latest American player to stick a knife in his organization's side and destroy his trade value by insisting to play in the USA. He follows a string of other players, including former Habs Assistant Captain Jeff Petry who signed a mega extension in his mid-30s and then immediately demanded a trade away and started dogging it all year until he got his way.

The American Factor is a huge risk factor at this point. And it won't get any better. I think it makes the risk of picking an American prospect, where basically you can't even expect them to honour their guaranteed contracts at this point, quite unpalatable. How long until Cole Caufield starts to yearn for the US? Will he finish his contract as a Hab? We can only hope and pray.

Given the ferocity of these trade requests and bolting away, I wouldn't risk picking an American with the 5OA unless I was certain he was in for the long haul -- but that's the problem, even when they say they're in and they sign contracts indicating they're in they STILL change their minds and disrupt roster planning (at best) or totally drop tools like Petry did.

I think there is a risk for small Canadian cities like Ottawa, Calgary, and Winnipeg. But not so much for Montreal, Vancouver, and Toronto.

Edmonton also seems to be safe because everyone wants to play with McDavid and Draisaitl.
 

ReHabs

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I think there is a risk for small Canadian cities like Ottawa, Calgary, and Winnipeg. But not so much for Montreal, Vancouver, and Toronto.

Edmonton also seems to be safe because everyone wants to play with McDavid and Draisaitl.
Toronto is on the verge of getting rinsed by Matthews. Jeff Petry did it to Montreal. We have no guarantees when it comes to Americans.

European players are safe, typically, from these sorts of demands. Russians never make them. It's just Americans. But you wouldn't hear it during the yearly draft cacophony. The American Factor is undeniable now.
 

26Mats

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Kent Hughes is the master of the smoke screen. When we think he's juking left, he's actually double Jumping, X, X, RB, LB, Up, Down, Left, Left, Left, R3, RB, Y, X, A, B.
Definitely. Can't wait to see who we pick.

It's looking like Smith, Michkov or Leonatd. But Reinbacher, Dvorsky, and Benson are still possibilities.
 

26Mats

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Toronto is on the verge of getting rinsed by Matthews. Jeff Petry did it to Montreal. We have no guarantees when it comes to Americans.

European players are safe, typically, from these sorts of demands. Russians never make them. It's just Americans. But you wouldn't hear it during the yearly draft cacophony. The American Factor is undeniable now.

I mean Toffoli and Dubois want out of Canadian cities, and they're American.

We'll see what happens with Matthew's. But even if Matthew's is traded, I expect the Leafs to get a real haul. So he was still a good puck for them to make.

Petry re-signed here. He only left when covid restrictions were a problem and he didn't get along with the coach - who was a terrible coach.
 

WeThreeKings

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Definitely. Can't wait to see who we pick.

It's looking like Smith, Michkov or Leonatd. But Reinbacher, Dvorsky, and Benson are still possibilities.

Smith, Leonard or Reinbacher. Michkov isn't ruled out but unlikely and Dvorsky is a strong possibility.

That's basically it.
 

Sorinth

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No one here is a detractor on Matvei Michkov.. I have not seen one person say that the Montreal Canadiens should not pick Matvei Michkov under no circumstances.



Kent Hughes himself when asked about Michkov also mentioned the possibility that he signs an extension in Russia. That means there is verifiable risk amongst NHL executives, teams, scouts and media members that Michkov may not simply cross over in 3 years and that he may actually extend longer in the KHL.



Teams have not been able to have live viewings of Michkov for 2 years. This is an issue. There are a lot of things you can't see on video. You can't see what he's doing when he's not on screen in the defensive zone. You can't see what his body language is after they get scored on, or if his teammate misses him when he's open, when he misses a chance. You can't see how he carries himself on the bench. You can't see how interacts with his teammates or coaches. There's a vital evaluation point and familiarity that you don't have.

That also means they haven't gotten to know him as a person or his growth as a person over the last two years. When you are investing a high pick, you are not just investing on a hockey player, you are investing on a person.



There's character concerns that they don't have answers to and there is still the mysterious death of his father. Yeah, the father thing might be a nothing burger but it's not like Russia is squeaky clean on how it operates. But the main issue here is the potential character concerns. The Montreal Canadiens in particular are all about building an inclusive locker room where everyone is high character individuals and they won't risk that by bringing in a potentially volatile personality.

That is where having no live viewings and no contact with a player over the last two years becomes a bigger sticking point.



There's hockey concerns as well. Michkov is a small player. Now, I don't particularly have an issue with small forwards but it is clear the Canadiens are concerned about the size mix in their top 6. I also don't have a concern over the one-dimensional nature of his game but that's a concern for teams as well.

If he's only good in one zone, that severely hampers what they can do with him on the ice and the neutral zone is one of MSL biggest focus areas.

So based on all of that - the concerns over his contract status, his ability to stay in Russia if he doesn't like where he is drafted, the geopolitical uncertainty, the character concerns, the lack of live viewings, the lack of actually knowing the player well, the concerns over his defensive and neutral zone play, and the possibility that his offensive game just isn't as good as billed or hasn't grown enough over the last two years.. the risk profile is not nothing, there's some legitimate concerns across the spectrum there.

And then you need to remove your own evaluation from Leonard/Reinbacher and understand that other scouting staffs and teams may see them in higher regard than you do.

If the evaluation is that Michkov is a 70-90 point forward who can't drive through the neutral zone, can't defend all that well, makes your forward group too small to contend, may take 3 years or longer to come over, may not be a good person or teammate, and may not actually be a 70-90 point forward since his progression is harder to track AND your evaluation is that Leonard is a 60-80 point forward who can provide a physical element, defensive conscience, speed, and creativity to a line-up that needs it.. why would you assume ALL of that risk for a deviation of ~10-20 points on either end of that projected offensive output?
Well said.

I won't be mad if we skip Michkov but I do want him. Part of why is because I trust Hughes so if we do pick him it's because they got good answers to those question marks.
 
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waffledave

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So whoever the pick, be it Smith or Leonard or Reinbacher or Michkov. If they bust it will be unforgivable?

I'm just trying to understand your position.

We don't need to get into a heated debate, I'm far too drained for that. A simple yes or no will suffice.

Yes? I mean isn't that obvious? If they pick someone who never makes the NHL that is not forgivable.
 
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