Confirmed with Link: Canadiens trade for Christian Dvorak for Cond. '22 1st (best but top 10 protected) + '24 2nd

Status
Not open for further replies.

Habano

Allez les Bleus, (Blancs, Rouges)
May 18, 2012
5,215
7,312
Your premise is already dead! There's no point in going forward.

And yeah if you didn't notice the TOI is in decreasing order so as I said his most common linemates were Crouse and Pitlick.
Haha, that's what I thought. You never said most common line mates. Keep moving the goal posts dude!

The garbage list you posted shows he played 36 games with Crouse and 26 games with pitlick. Now to fit your narrative you claim to have said "most common" line mates. Nice try!

A word of advice, don't attack people personally when they have differing opinions like calling them "king of the internet", it's not nice. Maybe then you wouldn't be so disliked on this board.
 
Last edited:

Pickles

Registered User
Apr 25, 2017
2,153
3,777
In the jar'o
Bottom line is the team is better today than it was yesterday and Bergevin won the day. That being said I still have a very uneasy feeling letting KK walk cause we've seen players that the team has given up on blossom elsewhere.
 

Walrus26

Wearing a Habs Toque in England.
May 24, 2018
3,163
4,906
Peterborough, UK
He's way ahead of where Krejci or Mikko Koivu were at the same age. The problem with KK was he shouldn't have had 3 years of NHL service time and an expired ELC at this point in his career. Habs totally botched this.

The chances of a late first being better than Dvorak are very slim and Dvorak is currently much better than Kotkaniemi......Young two way center on a good contract.....great job by MB.

Both these statements can be true at the same time and, in my view, they are.

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times." All the bloody time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Schooner Guy

Belial

Registered User
Oct 22, 2014
26,142
14,323
Montreal
Bottom line is the team is better today than it was yesterday and Bergevin won the day. That being said I still have a very uneasy feeling letting KK walk cause we've seen players that the team has given up on blossom elsewhere.
I need examples to be able to believe you!
 

Habano

Allez les Bleus, (Blancs, Rouges)
May 18, 2012
5,215
7,312
What? lmao, HFBoards never ceases to amaze!
I'm happy you're amazed. Here's your exact quote "He was playing with Pittlick and Crouse!" with an exclamation mark, to drive your point home, very nice touch. Where are the words "most common"?

I get it though, that's what you meant. :facepalm:
 
  • Like
Reactions: NORiculous

Belial

Registered User
Oct 22, 2014
26,142
14,323
Montreal
I'm happy you're amazed. Here's your exact quote "He was playing with Pittlick and Crouse!" with an exclamation mark, to drive your point home, very nice touch. Where are the words "most common"?

I get it though, that's what you meant. :facepalm:
So in your opinion ", he was playing with Pittlick and Crouse" and his most common linemates were Pitclick and Crouse are two completely different things?

I'm not even going to use the emoji, I'm going to say it! Huge Facepalm!
 
  • Like
Reactions: dralaf

Redux91

I do Three bullets.
Sep 5, 2006
45,295
39,320
Kirkland, Montreal
he played 36 games with Crouse and 26 games with pitlick. Now tofu your narrative you pretend you said "most common" line mates.

To be fair he posted the TOI which is much more accurate than GP , and even then insisting on GP , it was a 56 game schedule lol, so 36 with crouse is quite a lot lol..
And pitlick only played 38 games in the season, so 26 of that is quite a lot, and who knows how many more it would of been with 18 more games lol

i mean he does have a bit of a point here
If Christian really did spend the majority of his time with those 2 it certainly helps explain that low assist total lol
hell kessel was the only winger worth a damn to play with anyway, it just really wasnt a great team at all
 
  • Like
Reactions: MadMslm

Habano

Allez les Bleus, (Blancs, Rouges)
May 18, 2012
5,215
7,312
To be fair he posted the TOI which is much more accurate than GP , and even then insisting on GP , it was a 56 game schedule lol, so 36 with crouse is quite a lot lol..
And pitlick only played 38 games in the season, so 26 of that is quite a lot, and who knows how many more it would of been with 18 more games lol

i mean he does have a bit of a point here
If Christian really did spend the majority of his time with those 2 it certainly helps explain that low assist total lol
hell kessel was the only winger worth a damn to play with anyway, it just really wasnt a great team at all
This guy just likes to argue, and he's very quick with personal insults. That's why no one likes him.

He made it sound like Dvorak only played with Crouse and Pitlick. I called BS and the goalposts started to shift. Crouse for 36 games ok, I'll give you that but there are still 20 games unaccounted for. Pitlick however, for 26 games was less than half a season. So for 30 games Dvorak had either Kessel, Garland, Keller or someone else. Why doesn't he post the rest of that table so we can see who Dvorak had on the other wing for 30 games? I'll tell you why, because it doesn't support his claims.

Arizona might have been a bad team but the 3 wingers that I mentioned had more points than any of our wingers with the exception of Toffoli.
 
Last edited:

JianYang

Registered User
Sep 29, 2017
17,931
16,426
Im not going to pretend to know much about Dvorak with him playing in Arizona. But Danault’s finished 6, 6, and 7 the last 3 years in Selke voting while Dvorak hasn’t received a vote in his life. To say he’s even close to as good defensively seems silly. His offensive stats don’t seem far off Danault either, but he can score goals which is a big plus.

Danault is a much more classical version of the defensive forward. That's why I associate him to a guy like John madden, who won the trophy despite not having the scoring totals that you typically see selke players put up these days. It feels like that trophy has evolved to be more about scoring totals and less about the defensive play over time, and I think that hurts him on his selke consideration.

As for Dvorak, what I have noticed in my limited viewing is that he is a dangerous guy in the slot, and on breakaways, and that's where his goals come from. He's able to find ways to get loose in high traffic areas, and he's got quick hands.

He's going to get alot of the assignments that Danault got IMO, and that shouldn't change much from his time in Arizona, but he's likely not as good as Danault away from the puck.... Few players are.

The key is trying to measure who ends up being the larger net asset on the ice. I know we get hung up here about how many goals and assists a center ought to have as a 1C, 2C etc... but counting goals and assists only paints part of the picture.... Dvorak may well end up with more points, but that doesn't necessarily mean the habs are better off.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Catanddogguitarrr

Belial

Registered User
Oct 22, 2014
26,142
14,323
Montreal
This guy just likes to argue, and he's very quick with personal insults. That's why no one likes him.

He made it sound like Dvorak only played with Crouse and Pitlick. I called BS and the goalposts started to shift. Crouse for 36 games ok, I'll give you that but there are still 20 games unaccounted for. Pitlick however, for 26 games was less than half a season. So for 30 games Dvorak had either Kessel, Garland, Keller or someone else. Why doesn't he post the rest of that table so we can see who Dvorak had on the other wing for 30 games? I'll tell you why, because it doesn't support his claims.
Loool what? Where exactly I insulted you?

You threw some BS then got challenged on it and now you're all defensive...

We can move on I'm not sitting here trying to embarrass people and proving them wrong...

This is supposed to be fun but too many people take it too seriously.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dralaf

JianYang

Registered User
Sep 29, 2017
17,931
16,426
This trade can only be judged by what KK does in Carolina. If he ends up developing into a 60 point centre, then this whole saga will look bad.

I hope Dvorak is ready for some very high expectations. I see people predicting 25 goals and 60 points.

I know it's hard to seperate Dvorak and KK since they were indirectly traded for each other, but Dvorak's role will align alot closer to Danault, so that's the comparable for him. KK was just simply lost.

Ive been saying all along that once Danault was lost, the habs needed to supplement KK for times when things aren't going well for him. If we are talking about Suzuki/kk/Dvorak, then we are on to something.

But what we really have is the habs losing a key peice in Danault, then the habs ultimately using KK to help shore that void. The end result is a loss of crucial depth down the middle.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Catanddogguitarrr

Archijerej

Registered User
Jan 17, 2005
8,419
7,898
Poland
MB got caught off guard with the offer sheet for sure but he played his cards well after that IMO. I like this deal, but I'd have preferred to keep KK at the modest bridge deal he was supposed to get. This whole saga was a mess but at the end of it all you could do worse than KK+2nd for Dvorak+3rd.
I don't think Bergevin was against keeping Kotkaniemi on a modest bridge deal. That's what basically everyone expected to happen. Unfortunately, the player himself has a say in all this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dralaf

Durvann

Registered User
Feb 6, 2013
363
295
So let me see if I got this right. We replaced a 40 - 50 center still with potential with a 40-50 point center who has reached his ceiling and instead of a center lineup of Suzuki ,Kk, poehling, Evans, Perrault and Paquette , we now have Suzuki, Dvorak, poehling, Evans, Perrault and Paquette.

MB you genius you...
Since when is KK a 40-50 point player? Also that's what his medium term potential his but he's not good on faceoffs, can't stay on his skates and doesn't excel on PP nor PK...
 

Archijerej

Registered User
Jan 17, 2005
8,419
7,898
Poland
Ive been saying all along that once Danault was lost, the habs needed to supplement KK for times when things aren't going well for him. If we are talking about Suzuki/kk/Dvorak, then we are on to something.
That would have been ideal, but with Drouin's, Byron's and Kulak's contacts on the books, likely unfeasible financially.

Shaping up a competing roster will likely have to be done starting with 2023 off-season. Suzuki/Dvorak down the middle and Caufield is a good start. Now we must concentrate on strengthening the D corps.
 

Habano

Allez les Bleus, (Blancs, Rouges)
May 18, 2012
5,215
7,312
Loool what? Where exactly I insulted you?

You threw some BS then got challenged on it and now you're all defensive...

We can move on I'm not sitting here trying to embarrass people and proving them wrong...

This is supposed to be fun but too many people take it too seriously.
I don't know but where I come from, when you tell someone to stop trying to be the "King of the internet" in a condescending manner, it's an insult.

Also, you're the one who threw out the BS so you started shifting goalposts.

And wtf is with the cliche bolded part. You insult someone and want them to have fun and not take it seriously? You came across the wrong person for that.
 
Last edited:

Pickles

Registered User
Apr 25, 2017
2,153
3,777
In the jar'o
Yeah sure how about I challenge you to actually bring an example and you disappearing for months instead?
I provided two examples of players this organization gave up on that's not enough? There have been alot of first round busts as well not denying that but I could see KK becoming a top 6 center.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Doc McKenna

Doc McKenna

A new era 2021
Jan 5, 2009
11,839
11,798
And you think Bergevin didn't try to sign KK for less?

How the majority of posters are blaming this on Bergeving is just mindboggling!
Since even people who like MB are blaming this on him, maybe , just maybe you re evaluate your position. Nope full speed ahead with you. THIS is exactly what I was talking about.
You love to be an aggressive poster, talk down your nose at other posters like they are stupid, sometimes say as much getting you infractions. Do you think you might be wrong on this?

NOPE EVERYONE IS WRONG!!!!

Just wow.

We know he tried to sign him for less. That is part of the problem. You know what else was in FACT MB's fault. The offer sheet on Aho. Or did some other GM do that? Was some other GM throwing a 20 year old under the bus at a presser? Did some other GM make sure he had no leverage in contracts by losing Danault with no backup plan. Was it a different GM that had KK in trade talks for an entire year? Was it maybe Kevin Lowe that hired Dom dum who benched this kid?

I guess we will never know any of these answers. Poor Marc Bergevin the entire world is against him except for his good friend Belial on HF Boards. No one has ever pointed out some of the flaws that led up to this summer. I guess we will have to blame Ken Holland for the habs current state of affairs

Il n’y a pas plus sourd que celui qui ne veut pas entendre
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pickles

Milhouse40

Registered User
Aug 19, 2010
22,113
24,690
Kotkaniemi before the offer sheet:
"Be patient, he's still young....look at Scheifele, Couturier, MacKinnon and many others, it takes time for some center to find their game, I have faith in Kotkaniemi, HE IS JUST 20 YEARS OLD"

Kotkaniemi after the offer sheet:
"He's a bust, 3rd line center at best.....not really a good player, not such a good skater....Bergevin is great"

f***ing Montreal medias.......
 

aresknights

Registered User
Dec 27, 2009
12,703
5,450
london
The team that made the playoffs finished 18th in the league despite playing in a weak division. Most of the time 18th is not enough to make the playoffs. The team will definitely have to play better than last year to make it.

The team that made the playoffs won 3 series once there
 

Doc McKenna

A new era 2021
Jan 5, 2009
11,839
11,798
Since when is KK a 40-50 point player? Also that's what his medium term potential his but he's not good on faceoffs, can't stay on his skates and doesn't excel on PP nor PK...

JUst stop making crap up. He was 42% his sophomore year and was 48% last season. Suzi is 44% So does that make nick terrible and shouldn't be taking faceoffs? I see this brought up all the time. Everyone stopped complaining about his speed after he got some good training in and improved, because young kids tend to do that. You know when he will stop falling over, not even this season, but liley 2022. He may take till he is 22 years old before his body catches up to his frame. He had 0:01 PK time on average. Hmm I wonder if thats why you think he was bad on the PK. We know you didn't watch because he was very literally nearly never on it.
2020-21 Montreal Canadiens Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

  • Sydney Swans @ Hawthorn Hawks
    Sydney Swans @ Hawthorn Hawks
    Wagers: 5
    Staked: $6,151.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:
  • Inter Milan vs Torino
    Inter Milan vs Torino
    Wagers: 3
    Staked: $1,447.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:
  • Metz vs Lille
    Metz vs Lille
    Wagers: 2
    Staked: $220.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:
  • Cádiz vs Mallorca
    Cádiz vs Mallorca
    Wagers: 2
    Staked: $240.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:
  • Bologna vs Udinese
    Bologna vs Udinese
    Wagers: 3
    Staked: $265.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:

Ad

Ad