Confirmed with Link: Canadiens sign Daniel Briere for 2YR/8M (w/NMC) - Part II: Butthurt welcomed

[BaseballCoach]

So then let Plecs have the ice or DD. We have enough centers there.

As for him on the wings, we've got Galllagher and Gionta. We need another smurf like we need a hole in the head. We've spent the last few weeks talking about how we could get rid of some of these guys and now we've added another one.

So we go get a small center. Yeah... makes sense.

I agree with Dawson's Guy. Briere is a bad signing.

 

[TheBlindFan]

small big... you know... the small team in the NHL is MTL. some analysis but that on paper.... you know what... second smalless is... Chicago... so skill and grit is more important the height.

anyway... The game is about scoring more goal then the other team... Skill, grit and the winning think is needed more then anything else!

before asking me

http://mirtle.blogspot.ca/2013/01/2013-nhl-teams-by-weight-height-and-age.html

Hab fan... we finish first with a very bad end of year. Believe that we aren't that fare away. Please!!!

 

[Maelpj*]

Just realised this:

Bruins get bigger Top 9: Iginla, Eriksson
Toronto get bigger Top 9: Clarkson
Ottawa get bigger Top 9: Bobby Ryan, MacArthur

Habs answer: Daniel Brière

Big teams gonna get bigger. Smurf teams gonna get smurfers.

 

[Et le But]

Just realised this:

Bruins get bigger Top 9: Iginla, Eriksson
Toronto get bigger Top 9: Clarkson
Ottawa get bigger Top 9: Bobby Ryan, MacArthur

Habs answer: Daniel Brière

Big teams gonna get bigger. Smurf teams gonna get smurfers.

Iginla and Seguin are the same height, as are Horton and Eriksson. So no, the Bruins are exactly the same size they were before.

 

[BLONG7]

Iginla and Seguin are the same height, as are Horton and Eriksson. So no, the Bruins are exactly the same size they were before.

Smaller actually, they also lost Jagr...

 

[Et le But]

Smaller actually, they also lost Jagr...

Ah right, I knew I was forgetting someone.

 

[MTLSandman*]

The only reason other teams seem to mention us as smurfs or say were getting even smaller, is due to the fat that literally when anything happens all the Pejorative Slured fans go around screaming: SIZE! SIZE! SIZE! SIZE! SIZE! AAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

Maybe if WE didn't care so much about size others wouldn't either...See Chicago.....

Just let them play hockey. Skill beats out size 10/10. and I agree we need size to complement, but this doesn't mean every time a small forward is signed or traded for we should look down and yell We're SO SMALL!

 

[Maelpj*]

small big... you know... the small team in the NHL is MTL. some analysis but that on paper.... you know what... second smalless is... Chicago... so skill and grit is more important the height.

anyway... The game is about scoring more goal then the other team... Skill, grit and the winning think is needed more then anything else!

before asking me

http://mirtle.blogspot.ca/2013/01/2013-nhl-teams-by-weight-height-and-age.html

Hab fan... we finish first with a very bad end of year. Believe that we aren't that fare away. Please!!!

Difference

Chicago tanked and now have an elite core of Kane, Toews and Seabrook. we don't

Chicago have an ELITE Top 6 def corpse. we don't.

most of chicago top 6 are average above average. we don't

Chicago have some gritty, top 9 player and support player. Shaw, Saad, Bickell, Bolland. We don't have this group.

Success teams are team who tanked and have now an elite core ( PIT AND CHI), or they build themselve trought UFA , draft and trade into a solid group of gritty, physical, defensively dominant team ( LA and BOSTON). Then, they are average team like us to sign, go for average , smurf player who keeps us for tanking and exposing our glaring weakness (minus 2012) and then stop us from drafting elite stud, but aren't good enough to get us far into playoff. GREAT!

 

[WG]

You complain a lot, tell me how you want to improve this ****** team?

I'd have given that money to Scuderi. 4/$15 for a solid defensive defenseman who represents an actual need. Two time cup winner so assume he brings enough character. Since that ship has sailed I hope we look as Mark Fistric who should be fairly cheap (assume 2 years at $2M per would seal the deal) who is young enough (27) and brings a size/nastiness element that our D lacks.

Rest of the leftover cap you can give to Jagr on a 1-year deal seeing as we need true wingers more than centres.

And if we hadn't already filled out the depth defense spots with Drewiske and Bouillon I'd probably toss a < $1M contract at Jon Blum or Tyson Strachan, who bring different skill sets but are both young enough to potentially be around in case all of our defense bolt as UFAs next year.

 

[Maelpj*]

Iginla and Seguin are the same height, as are Horton and Eriksson. So no, the Bruins are exactly the same size they were before.

You know what I was saying. Iginla definitively bring a physical aspect that Seguin doesn't bring. Same thing for Eriksson ( who by the way is taller than Horton) who brings more grit and defensive play.

 

[WG]

We need to replace Ryders spot on the RW. Good god.

For one, the Philly fans who have dropped in have mentioned that DB is nowhere near as effective on the wing vs centre. Here's hoping that MT doesn't end up having to move Eller to wing in order to accommodate DB as a #3 centre.

For two, we could in theory have replaced Ryder with, well, Ryder, who signed for less money despite the fact that he's younger, less injury prone and more productive than DB.

 

[MTLSandman*]

Difference

Chicago tanked and now have an elite core of Kane, Toews and Seabrook. we don't

Chicago have an ELITE Top 6 def corpse. we don't.

most of chicago top 6 are average above average. we don't

Chicago have some gritty, top 9 player and support player. Shaw, Saad, Bickell, Bolland. We don't have this group.

Success teams are team who tanked and have now an elite core ( PIT AND CHI), or they build themselve trought UFA , draft and trade into a solid group of gritty, physical, defensively dominant team ( LA and BOSTON). Then, they are average team like us to sign, go for average , smurf player who keeps us for tanking and exposing our glaring weakness (minus 2012) and then stop us from drafting elite stud, but aren't good enough to get us far into playoff. GREAT!

So what your saying is that teams either draft their players, trade their players or sign their players to become contenders?...... WOW and all this time I tought they made them appear out of thin air!

Any team can become contenders, it just takes time patience and some intelligence. *Hence not signing and over paying every player over 6'2 for the sake of showing off your SIZE*

It means making your team good enough to stay somewhat contending while drafting intelligently and making sure you hold on to and develop your young assets until you reach a steady pace of incoming draft talent and releasing older players seamlessly.

For the past few years that pace has been off, and we managed to make some really stupid moves that relied too heavily on outbound talent instead of our own drafted recruits.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He shows the kids how to stick people in the groin in a way the refs can't see. He's a father figure, really.

Hilarious. And absolutely true.

I agree with Dawson's Guy. Briere is a bad signing.

Good!

Just realised this:

Bruins get bigger Top 9: Iginla, Eriksson
Toronto get bigger Top 9: Clarkson
Ottawa get bigger Top 9: Bobby Ryan, MacArthur

Habs answer: Daniel Brière

Big teams gonna get bigger. Smurf teams gonna get smurfers.

Bruins got Iginla? That sucks.

Iginla and Seguin are the same height, as are Horton and Eriksson. So no, the Bruins are exactly the same size they were before.

Iginla is a hell of a lot stronger (and plays stronger) than Seguin does.

Seguin's an elite talent and I think someday Boston might regret that trade. But the B's are actually stronger now than they were before. Horton was an accident waiting to happen anyway...

The only reason other teams seem to mention us as smurfs or say were getting even smaller, is due to the fat that literally when anything happens all the Pejorative Slured fans go around screaming: SIZE! SIZE! SIZE! SIZE! SIZE! AAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

Maybe if WE didn't care so much about size others wouldn't either...See Chicago.....

Just let them play hockey. Skill beats out size 10/10. and I agree we need size to complement, but this doesn't mean every time a small forward is signed or traded for we should look down and yell We're SO SMALL!

Chicago had big strong guys helping them win cups. For Pete's sake look at Byfuglien. That guy went to war with Chris Pronger. Bolland went to war with Chara. Who in our lineup can do this?

Please don't sit there and say size isn't needed because it is. The 70s Habs were huge, so were our teams in the 80s. Size matters no matter what your girlfriend tells you dude.

I'd have given that money to Scuderi. 4/$15 for a solid defensive defenseman who represents an actual need. Two time cup winner so assume he brings enough character. Since that ship has sailed I hope we look as Mark Fistric who should be fairly cheap (assume 2 years at $2M per would seal the deal) who is young enough (27) and brings a size/nastiness element that our D lacks.

Rest of the leftover cap you can give to Jagr on a 1-year deal seeing as we need true wingers more than centres.

And if we hadn't already filled out the depth defense spots with Drewiske and Bouillon I'd probably toss a < $1M contract at Jon Blum or Tyson Strachan, who bring different skill sets but are both young enough to potentially be around in case all of our defense bolt as UFAs next year.

Ditto. We really could use a guy like that.

 

[Team_Spirit]

I was mad but looking at the contracts handed out today i think Briere deal is one of the best.

Yeah the Sens got a big piece but they lost Alfie so its a wash. They also lost their quality depth (i count that as 3 1st rounders) Clearly a panic move after losing the captain.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I was mad but looking at the contracts handed out today i think Briere deal is one of the best.

Yeah the Sens got a big piece but they lost Alfie so its a wash. They also lost their quality depth (i count that as 3 1st rounders) Clearly a panic move after losing the captain.

I think Ryan is a huge upgrade on Alfie. Wish we could've put something together for him.

 

[danisonfire]

He's a 35 year old vet. Everyone knows what kind of player he is...

And yes, making dumb signings is a 100% way not to win.

Logical fallacy

If statements 1 and 2 are true, it will absolutely follow that statement 3 is true. However, it may still be the case that statement 1 or 2 is not true. For example:

Statement 1: He is a 35 year old vet
Statement 2: Dumb signing
Statement 3: a 100% way to not win

Can you prove he is dumb beyond your opinion? Can it be proven it is 100% not the way to win? Seems like speculation, hardly fact.

Begging the question – the failure to provide what is essentially the conclusion of an argument as a premise, if so required. You can not prove this, nobody who has not seen into the future can.

Circular reasoning – when the reasoner begins with what he or she is trying to end up with; sometimes called assuming the conclusion. Because we signed Briere, we will 100% not win. Can't prove this.

Really? Okay. Let's go trade Subban for Chris Neil because you never know... Chris Neil might become a 50 goal scorer right?

Or can we just say that this is a dumb trade without having to go through this stupid exercise?

Logical fallacy

Red herring – a speaker attempts to distract an audience by deviating from the topic at hand by introducing a separate argument which the speaker believes will be easier to speak to. Are you arguing in favour of trading Subban for Neil? I havn't.

Briere doesn't replace anyone anymore than the goon from Florida did... You aren't scoring any points here. Just leave Michael Ryder out of it because nobody cares...

Logical fallacy

Argument from ignorance (appeal to ignorance, argumentum ad ignorantiam) – assuming that a claim is true (or false) because it has not been proven false (true) or cannot be proven false (true). We can't prove this either way at this point in time.

I'm not going to argue with you that water is wet. It is... again, you're wasting everyone's time trying to argue that cap space doesn't matter. It does. Whether you have it or not, you don't waste it...

How do you quantify a waste vs a non-waste before the players actually take to the ice? You can have an opinion, that is about it.

Well, let's go make that Chris Neil trade then. Stanley Cup here we come!!!!

You are the only one who has suggested trading Pk Subban for Chris Neal so far to date that I have seen.

Dude, you are arguing for the sake of it. If you want to make a poll on Iginla vs Briere go ahead... it will be close to 100%.

Last time, HF board polls prove nothing. Why would I make an Iginla vs Briere poll? Has anyone heard from Iginla he wanted to sign with Montreal? This all started from your opinion Ignila has better qualities for our team, can you prove this beyond speculation?

 

[SlyIslands]

You know what I was saying. Iginla definitively bring a physical aspect that Seguin doesn't bring. Same thing for Eriksson ( who by the way is taller than Horton) who brings more grit and defensive play.

Eriksson bring more grit then Horton?

 

[Lshap]

Logical fallacy

If statements 1 and 2 are true, it will absolutely follow that statement 3 is true. However, it may still be the case that statement 1 or 2 is not true. For example:

Statement 1: He is a 35 year old vet
Statement 2: Dumb signing
Statement 3: a 100% way to not win

Can you prove he is dumb beyond your opinion? Can it be proven it is 100% not the way to win? Seems like speculation, hardly fact.

Begging the question – the failure to provide what is essentially the conclusion of an argument as a premise, if so required. You can not prove this, nobody who has not seen into the future can.

Circular reasoning – when the reasoner begins with what he or she is trying to end up with; sometimes called assuming the conclusion. Because we signed Briere, we will 100% not win. Can't prove this.



Logical fallacy

Red herring – a speaker attempts to distract an audience by deviating from the topic at hand by introducing a separate argument which the speaker believes will be easier to speak to. Are you arguing in favour of trading Subban for Neil? I havn't.



Logical fallacy

Argument from ignorance (appeal to ignorance, argumentum ad ignorantiam) – assuming that a claim is true (or false) because it has not been proven false (true) or cannot be proven false (true). We can't prove this either way at this point in time.



How do you quantify a waste vs a non-waste before the players actually take to the ice? You can have an opinion, that is about it.



You are the only one who has suggested trading Pk Subban for Chris Neal so far to date that I have seen.



Last time, HF board polls prove nothing. Why would I make an Iginla vs Briere poll? Has anyone heard from Iginla he wanted to sign with Montreal? This all started from your opinion Ignila has better qualities for our team, can you prove this beyond speculation?

Dude, you'd have more credibility if you responded to what Lafleurs Guy wrote instead of trying to organize a college debating club. You're playing the "Anything can happen" card, which may be technically true, but it's a passive laissez-faire approach to a project that demands proactive, laser-beam strategy. This is a hockey team, not a roulette table.

If it's any consolation to you, all of us here on this board will be cheering when Briere nets his first goal for us and we'll all be hoping he catches fire during the playoffs. There's nothing wrong with optimism. The problem is that based on the building blocks that Bergevin claimed to be putting in place, this signing doesn't fit. I really really would love to be proven wrong about Briere, but based on the evidence and case histories of aging, injured, small forwards, the court finds Bergevin guilty of Capslaughter.

 

[danisonfire]

Dude, you'd have more credibility if you responded to what Lafleurs Guy wrote instead of trying to organize a college debating club. You're playing the "Anything can happen" card, which may be technically true, but it's a passive laissez-faire approach to a project that demands proactive, laser-beam strategy. This is a hockey team, not a roulette table.

If it's any consolation to you, all of us here on this board will be cheering when Briere nets his first goal for us and we'll all be hoping he catches fire during the playoffs. There's nothing wrong with optimism. The problem is that based on the building blocks that Bergevin claimed to be putting in place, this signing doesn't fit. I really really would love to be proven wrong about Briere, but based on the evidence and case histories of aging, injured, small forwards, the court finds Bergevin guilty of Capslaughter.

I did reply to his posts earlier in the thread. I also touched on the "capslaughter" point. I was met with a point involving trading pk subban for chris neil. He was the only one to mention that at any point in time. I accept his opinion and yours as plausable (hope it doesn't happen for MTL's sake), does not mean I need to agree with it. Saying something is 100% wrong (like he did several times) to a subjective thing does not make it correct or proactive.

 

[overlords]

Eriksson bring more grit then Horton?

Who knows? Not like Horton was feared at all before Boston. Maybe eriksson becomes a monster in beantown and horton goes back to being a *****cat

 

[durojean]

I think Bergevin is giving himself 3 year to build a team like he really wants it. Briere is just a stop gap in between and gives him some depth in the mean time.

 

[Malakhov]

I think Bergevin is giving himself 3 year to build a team like he really wants it. Briere is just a stop gap in between and gives him some depth in the mean time.

After hearing Bergevin's media conference, I'm less angry at the fact we didn't get bigger. He said that teams who had the size in the top 6 aren't willing to part with these guys and if they do, you have to give half of your team for them wich the Habs arent ready to do. With that being said, I'm sure he did try and just wan't ready to sacrifice our prospects and draft picks since we're rebuilding and it didn't make any sense. Ottawa gave a 1st and the equivalence of 2 first round players for Ryan, this is too much. I'd rather have Timmins select 3 first rounders and build from there than acquire Ryan. The habs got two big forwards this season in their first 3 picks, this is the way to go.

The only thing I'd want is to get rid of someone like Desharnais or Gionta, at least we know Gionta is gone next summer...

 

[greyboy67]

Briere, age 35: 2 yrs at $8M
Ryder, age 33 : 2 yrs at $7M

So why is this not making sense?

 

[Rise from the Ashes]

After hearing Bergevin's media conference, I'm less angry at the fact we didn't get bigger. He said that teams who had the size in the top 6 aren't willing to part with these guys and if they do, you have to give half of your team for them wich the Habs arent ready to do. With that being said, I'm sure he did try and just wan't ready to sacrifice our prospects and draft picks since we're rebuilding and it didn't make any sense. Ottawa gave a 1st and the equivalence of 2 first round players for Ryan, this is too much. I'd rather have Timmins select 3 first rounders and build from there than acquire Ryan. The habs got two big forwards this season in their first 3 picks, this is the way to go.

The only thing I'd want is to get rid of someone like Desharnais or Gionta, at least we know Gionta is gone next summer...

Exactly. Well said.

 

[Analyzer*]

I was mad but looking at the contracts handed out today i think Briere deal is one of the best.

Yeah the Sens got a big piece but they lost Alfie so its a wash. They also lost their quality depth (i count that as 3 1st rounders) Clearly a panic move after losing the captain.

I don't know why TSN kept spewing that nonsense. Alfredsson is 40. 40 year-old players aren't really all that helpful. He's still useful, but compared to Bobby Ryan... Nah, Ottawa did more than fine replacing Alfredsson.