Canadian Soccer Part II

[sabremike]

Except this comes from before the game, where I was told I was delusional to even think Davies/David were comparable to the great Pulisic. My statement remains the same; I wouldn't trade those two for any American player. As mentioned above nobody thinks the Americans are lighting it up at club level either, and you can judge players on talent before they have the opportunity to prove themselves at the 'top level'.

Also there were certainly some comments about McKennie after he scored against Cuba. Not that you're in any position to say what would ruin our historic win. You're not on that side, chap.

Contrary to popular opinion Pulisic is NOT our best player, it's a guy currently out: Tyler Adams. It's no accident that the Red Bulls went from best season point total in MLS history (only to get screwed by the idiotic MLS playoff system) to a complete disaster right after he left. We went from best defense in the league to a Phil Housley style defensive clownshow virtually overnight.

 

[YNWA14]

Contrary to popular opinion Pulisic is NOT our best player, it's a guy currently out: Tyler Adams. It's no accident that the Red Bulls went from best season point total in MLS history (only to get screwed by the idiotic MLS playoff system) to a complete disaster right after he left. We went from best defense in the league to a Phil Housley style defensive clownshow virtually overnight.

I don't doubt it; I've never been overly high on Pulisic (you can review my post history when there were some links to Liverpool). Not that I think he's terrible or anything. I just have very high opinions of David and Davies and from what I've seen of the US players I don't see anyone there that I would take over those two. I remember Davies basically dominating in the MLS at 16/17 years old and you could just see how special he is.

 

[robertmac43]

David and Davies are already on another level. When will the World Cup qualifying start if we go directly to the Hex?

I believe August 2021 is what I read but I may be wrong.

 

[Pouchkine]

31 August 2020 I see.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You act as if you have a team of players dominating in the big European Leagues which is simply not the case. Pulisic has been underwhelming this year, Sargent has been alright, McKennie has been good I'll give you that, but he is far from a world beater. On our side, David has been scoring for fun across all competitions and Davies has a goal in 4 games and has played well for Bayern in the stints he has gotten. Plus both players are 2000's so they are 2 years behind Pulisic and McKennie.

Also what on earth should we be jealous of when it comes to the USMNT?

That’s a misrepresentation. We have 2-3 proven players, Pulisic, McKennie and maybe Adams. Adams hasn’t been there as long, but was an instant success. And you are missing the point. Your fans are constantly comparing your players to ours and trying to compare to us. That shouldn’t be any sort of benchmark. We suck. Our team isn’t the French or Brazilian team. Being as good as Pulisic, Adams or McKennie doesn’t mean someone has made it, even if it was true.

Just like your benchmark shouldn’t be us or our players, ours shouldn’t be any team in CONCACAF or their players. Being good in this region means nothing. If you want to be the best, it’s not coming from any games within the region or any individual accomplishments against teams in this region. It comes at the top level of the sport, every week in the best leagues in the world. That applies for the best players of Canada, Mexico, USA, all the teams in CONCACAF that want a claim for any prestige.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Except this comes from before the game, where I was told I was delusional to even think Davies/David were comparable to the great Pulisic. My statement remains the same; I wouldn't trade those two for any American player. As mentioned above nobody thinks the Americans are lighting it up at club level either, and you can judge players on talent before they have the opportunity to prove themselves at the 'top level'.

Also there were certainly some comments about McKennie after he scored against Cuba. Not that you're in any position to say what would ruin our historic win. You're not on that side, chap.

Well again, you can say it whenever you want, it doesn’t change the validity of it. The validity of it certainly would not be based off this game. When you have a historic win for your country and the first thing you comment is this ridiculous comparison, it takes away from what the team actually accomplished.

The fact that this is the discussion in here instead of how well Canada played in a must win game for their team is disappointing. Your fans are ruining your celebration by trying to compare your players to ours. The only person who would see any benefit is someone who made a ridiculous comparison in the first place and is trying to use this result to prove their comparison.

 

[YNWA14]

Well again, you can say it whenever you want, it doesn’t change the validity of it. The validity of it certainly would not be based off this game. When you have a historic win for your country and the first thing you comment is this ridiculous comparison, it takes away from what the team actually accomplished.

The fact that this is the discussion in here instead of how well Canada played in a must win game for their team is disappointing. Your fans are ruining your celebration by trying to compare your players to ours. The only person who would see any benefit is someone who made a ridiculous comparison in the first place and is trying to use this result to prove their comparison.

It wasn't the first thing anyone commented on, except some American posters who came to make a tongue-in-cheek post about it here and showed a bit of humility. You can call the comparison ridiculous in the first place or whatever, but it'll continue to be true. Your reaction, of course, is not surprising. Nobody is worried about whether or not you think this is taking away from our win or ruining our celebration; we're all very happy with how it went and can discuss anything pertaining to it (while this particular subject gets dragged on by US posters coming here).

The US were played off the pitch and it was a win on many levels for the Canadian team.

 

[robertmac43]

That’s a misrepresentation. We have 2-3 proven players, Pulisic, McKennie and maybe Adams. Adams hasn’t been there as long, but was an instant success. And you are missing the point. Your fans are constantly comparing your players to ours and trying to compare to us. That shouldn’t be any sort of benchmark. We suck. Our team isn’t the French or Brazilian team. Being as good as Pulisic, Adams or McKennie doesn’t mean someone has made it, even if it was true.

I think it is completely fair for us to compare the CMNT to the USMNT. We have been that bad CONCACAF Nation for decades now (aside from one Cinderella Gold Cup Win) and wan to make the steps to becoming a respectable nation on the world scene that can qualify for the World Cup. We are not concerned with being on the level of a team from South America or Europe atm, we simply want to competing and consistent in this region, the rest can wait and is a part of the process.

Last night signified the start of a new era for us and one that will bring us closer to the top of CONCACAF football. It's not much in the eyes of an American or Mexican, but is huge for Canada, a country that has just started its own pro-league, is riddled with snow for the majority of the year, and is a mere 37 million in population.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

It wasn't the first thing anyone commented on, except some American posters who came to make a tongue-in-cheek post about it here and showed a bit of humility. You can call the comparison ridiculous in the first place or whatever, but it'll continue to be true. Your reaction, of course, is not surprising. Nobody is worried about whether or not you think this is taking away from our win or ruining our celebration; we're all very happy with how it went and can discuss anything pertaining to it (while this particular subject gets dragged on by US posters coming here).

The US were played off the pitch and it was a win on many levels for the Canadian team.

I was referring to what the specific person who said it claimed. That was his first thing to say after a historic win for his team. And believe me, no US fans ever bring up how our players compare to yours. That comes from your fan base, like it did here.

 

[jj cale]

It's a big win for us no doubt but my excitement is tempered. I am still waiting for the day when we can take down the real big boys like Germany in mens international football, the U.S sure as hell aren't.

I got a hoot out of them saying we come across as jealous of their players in this thread, jealous? what about? you are U.S mens football, you are still nowhere near a level to be jealous about.

 

[Cassano]

I was referring to what the specific person who said it claimed. That was his first thing to say after a historic win for his team. And believe me, no US fans ever bring up how our players compare to yours. That comes from your fan base, like it did here.

I mean, it was USA fans on this board that chose not to listen on arguments on why some posters would prefer Davies + David over any USMNT talent. Despite discussing stats, playing style, etc we were dismissed as being homers. It was even arrogantly suggested that because David scored a goal vs lowly Cuba, we suddenly started taking notice. Never mind the fact that he has been dominating a European league for more than a season now.

So of course, when those 2 players lead us over the allegedly superior talents, I will make a comment on it.

 

[JianYang]

It's a big win for us no doubt but my excitement is tempered. I am still waiting for the day when we can take down the real big boys like Germany in mens international football, the U.S sure as hell aren't.

I got a hoot out of them saying we come across as jealous of their players in this thread, jealous? what about? you are U.S mens football, you are still nowhere near a level to be jealous about.

The first goal is to make the hex. Canada hasn't got there for several years now. That would be a step. I'm not sure how the rankings are calculated, but Canada remains on the fringe. I much preferred the old qualification system, instead of this ranking calculation.

As for the first rate eurpoean teams, I'm not even going to go there. A team like Mexico toys with Canada, and even they are not in the same league as the first rate european nations.

 

[YNWA14]

The first goal is to make the hex. Canada hasn't got there for several years now. That would be a step. I'm not sure how the rankings are calculated, but Canada remains on the fringe. I much preferred the old qualification system, instead of this ranking calculation.

As for the first rate eurpoean teams, I'm not even going to go there. A team like Mexico toys with Canada, and even they are not in the same league as the first rate european nations.

I'm not sure I would say Mexico toys with Canada anymore. Even their last match was competitive and that was with Davies playing at leftback (IIRC).

 

[JianYang]

I'm not sure I would say Mexico toys with Canada anymore. Even their last match was competitive and that was with Davies playing at leftback (IIRC).

Canada was not dressing their best, but I wouldn't call that match competitive. There was a point where Mexico went into a lull and Canada got within 1 goal, but they were just too much. Canada did not handle the Mexico press well at all.

 

[jj cale]

The first goal is to make the hex. Canada hasn't got there for several years now. That would be a step. I'm not sure how the rankings are calculated, but Canada remains on the fringe. I much preferred the old qualification system, instead of this ranking calculation.

As for the first rate eurpoean teams, I'm not even going to go there. A team like Mexico toys with Canada, and even they are not in the same league as the first rate european nations.

No question, we are a looooong ways away yet.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I got a hoot out of them saying we come across as jealous of their players in this thread, jealous? what about? you are U.S mens football, you are still nowhere near a level to be jealous about.

I think you completely missed the point.

I actually made the point before you did that you shouldn't view a victory over the USA as more important than it is. It helps your team qualify for the Hex, and thats what's important about it. The US team is pretty bad right now, and we are a very average team. It's not as if you beat a top team, as you said. We agreed about that. I said that yesterday.

The jealousy comes from the guy who even admitted right after your post above that he's concerned with comparing the Canadian players to the American players. And a few other Canadians here or there have taken the mantle and defended him or said similar things, even weeks and months before this game. Why compare Canadian players to Americans? It's not as if American fans compare our players to Canadians. Jealousy in sports often is manifested more in individual players than team performances. Are people concerned with comparing the Jets and Leafs or Matthews and Laine? Are people concerned with comparing Crosby and Ovechkin or the Pens and Caps? When fans try to pump the tires of those they support, they resort more to the individual players than the teams.

 

[jj cale]

I think you completely missed the point.

I actually made the point before you did that you shouldn't view a victory over the USA as more important than it is. It helps your team qualify for the Hex, and thats what's important about it. The US team is pretty bad right now, and we are a very average team. It's not as if you beat a top team, as you said. We agreed about that. I said that yesterday.

The jealousy comes from the guy who even admitted right after your post above that he's concerned with comparing the Canadian players to the American players. And a few other Canadians here or there have taken the mantle and defended him or said similar things, even weeks and months before this game. Why compare Canadian players to Americans? It's not as if American fans compare our players to Canadians. Jealousy in sports often is manifested more in individual players than team performances. Are people concerned with comparing the Jets and Leafs or Matthews and Laine? Are people concerned with comparing Crosby and Ovechkin or the Pens and Caps? When fans try to pump the tires of those they support, they resort more to the individual players than the teams.

good post. However I think it's normal to compare players, American fans compare their hockey players to ours all the time here and obviously at one time used our players as the benchmark to determine just how far along they were coming in their program.

I don't have an issue with our fans here comparing players, don't see that as a big deal at all.

Anyway, solid win for Canadian football, such a long way to go, beating the U.S is nice but as we both agree, it's hardly earth shattering as the U.S is still just an also ran at the mens level in this sport, same as Canada. Neither team is even close to good enough yet to be getting in a pissing match between our fans.

 

[YNWA14]

It's completely missing the point to not see why Canadians would be happy with beating the US regardless of their level currently, especially with the narrative a lot of fans are still spinning and looking down on Canada with. Beating a rival at any point is something to celebrate, especially so when it's been 35 years.

Pointing out that we like some of our players more than the US players, and that we think they're better, doesn't amount to jealousy. This happens all the time not even among rivals; when it does have to do with rivals it becomes a point of pride certainly, and especially after the respective performances in the game that is the point of discussion it makes for some fun banter.

There are still relative levels of success that can be celebrated. It's not 'world cup contender or go home'. When you're a country on the rise and you beat or surpass a team that has historically been significantly better than yours I don't see where anyone else can get off telling you it's nothing to celebrate or be happy about. These are the teams that you'll be consistently competing with just to have the chance at competing with the real world powers anyway. So yeah, down with the USMNT and up with the CMNT; long may this shift in power continue and last.

 

[Pouchkine]

We also must remember the lost to Haïti in the last real competitive game we played. We improve but there's still a lot of work to do. At the moment the US team is in such a terrible shape.

 

[jj cale]

It's completely missing the point to not see why Canadians would be happy with beating the US regardless of their level currently, especially with the narrative a lot of fans are still spinning and looking down on Canada with. Beating a rival at any point is something to celebrate, especially so when it's been 35 years.

Pointing out that we like some of our players more than the US players, and that we think they're better, doesn't amount to jealousy. This happens all the time not even among rivals; when it does have to do with rivals it becomes a point of pride certainly, and especially after the respective performances in the game that is the point of discussion it makes for some fun banter.

There are still relative levels of success that can be celebrated. It's not 'world cup contender or go home'. When you're a country on the rise and you beat or surpass a team that has historically been significantly better than yours I don't see where anyone else can get off telling you it's nothing to celebrate or be happy about. These are the teams that you'll be consistently competing with just to have the chance at competing with the real world powers anyway. So yeah, down with the USMNT and up with the CMNT; long may this shift in power continue and last.

I am happy with the win and acknowledge it is a good step for our program, I am just keeping it in perspective.

We have a lot of work to do.

 

[JianYang]

We also must remember the lost to Haïti in the last real competitive game we played. We improve but there's still a lot of work to do. At the moment the US team is in such a terrible shape.

The forward situation is as good as I've ever seen for Canada. Quality players and good depth.

The midfield.... Meh. It could be worse. Arfield was a good add and seems to glue things together.

The back end is the weakest link IMO. That's just lacking all around.

Goalkeeping is in decent hands, as is the case for most of the time I've followed this team.

I think teams that press Canada hard are the ones that really expose them. Haiti was one of them.

 

[Zegras Zebra]

I don't know why we don't lay at Commonwealth in winter. The Central Americans use every trick in the book against us we should follow suit. They wouldn't be able to handle the freezing cold of Edmonton

Or McMahon, Mosaic, or IGF? Could you just imagine playing Mexico or Honduras in a snowstorm or in -20*C weather in November in the prairies? It would be glorious. Plus you would maybe have less likelihood of Mexican fans invading the stadium if they played in that level of cold.

On another note I think it would be a good idea to have the CMNT play in stadiums other than BMO and BC Place so the rest of the country has a chance to see the Men's team play live. It worked for the Women's team.

 

[robertmac43]

On another note I think it would be a good idea to have the CMNT play in stadiums other than BMO and BC Place so the rest of the country has a chance to see the Men's team play live. It worked for the Women's team.

I think the players would rather play @ BMO or BC Place due o comfort and familiarity. For that reason I would keep them at the two main stadiums. If it was a friendly I would be more in tune with switching things up.

 

[Pouchkine]

I think the players would rather play @ BMO or BC Place due o comfort and familiarity. For that reason I would keep them at the two main stadiums. If it was a friendly I would be more in tune with switching things up.

The entire point is that it's also much better for the opposing teams to play in Toronto and BC. That's why having a key WC qualifying game in Regina vs. Mexico-CostaRica-Honduras would be clever.

BC Place for one should be banned with the fake grass and zero atmosphere.

 

[robertmac43]

The entire point is that it's also much better for the opposing teams to play in Toronto and BC. That's why having a key WC qualifying game in Regina vs. Mexico-CostaRica-Honduras would be clever.

BC Place for one should be banned with the fake grass and zero atmosphere.

I don't think it would be too clever to go to Regina for a February game. Our players won't want to do that as much ad the other team, plus the support would not be as well.

Ideally they keep all the games at BMO; great atmosphere, good city, and in the winter - still cold! Best of all the worlds imo