Chimpradamus
Registered User
You need to get abroad more for some perspective. If you honestly don't think we have cultural tendencies, I don't know what to say. Ashamed for success is NOT what reflects the Jante Law into our society today. I do agree the cultural disrepancies are getting smaller every day, but they are still there, more in team sports than anything I think, because that is perhaps the only and last place where the Jante Law actually makes sense nowadays. Because that is an enviroment where you will see visual and direct results from working for the collective and not yourself.I know this is OT and both these posts will most likely be removed, but this is utter ********.
"Prevalent in society" WRONG! I have never ever met a single person who is ashamed of their success or think they can't grow up to be something great.
Jantelagen is a myth, more or less.
That is also why alot of Scandinavian players are generally so likeable when they arrive to other teams, because they totally buy into the idea of working for the collective, because they have seen the results. That might also be why Scandinavians consider the AHL so unlikeable, because that is perhaps one of the most individually competitive leagues there is.
Now this post will be a long one as usual from me, but I consider it a very important discussion.Well, if you think that you are most probably a socialist or very young. I'm not basing this on the company I keep or by people I meet, I'm basing it on the behaviour of society as a whole, fueled by the media.
Jealousy of your neighbour and suspicion against people with their own businesses for example are very common. As I said, it is changing, but will take a generation or two without socialist influence on the minds and hearts of the population to be erradicated.
To say it's a myth is just false. Fact: People who win money on the lottery generally get more respect in Sweden than people who make their own money through hard work. It's a sad fact but anyone who has seen anything knows it unfortunately still holds true.
Jealousy of your neighbour is more of the culture of competition than any Jante Law. That so many feel the need to have the fanciest car in the neighbourhood is 100% showboating and wholeheartedly buying the false belief that consumtion can make you happier - and showing it. And of course a tint of dehumanization, since way too many people assume most people they don't know are probably idiots.
When you understand that if you will get rich as a CEO or by winning the lottery is basically ALL a lottery, you get a different perspective. Because if you become rich from a business or not, is not based on rationality, but who you know, if you're lucky, how much time you are willing to spend (the somewhat rational aspect), how good you are at manipulating other people, how much of a psychopath you are and how corrupted you are willing to be.
I do agree small business owners get literally harrassed, but that has alot to do with corrupt politics. The suspicion that is there against business owners, has more to do with social demoralization and propaganda. You think most other people are dishonest and corrupt, which they also probably are to some extent, because today, you're considered stupid if you're not. You get no visible results from genuinely caring about others. So Jante Law or not, the society is a mess and the Swedish social welfare system is today a myth. It is the everyone for themselves scenario that is playing out. "Collective responsibility" is nowadays a word that most people in Industrialized countries see as a joke, because of the created cultural climate I call a joke.
That's why people should get the idea out of their heads that the system has ever cared about them. It has and always will be about the welfare of a monetary elite, that is openly robbing people blind. That is pretty obvious by now. That has very little to do with the ancient Jante Law though and more of a generally accepted, widespread corruption that is totally getting out of hand.
When you form a society where demoralization is widespread from blunt entertainment, corrupt authorities on all levels, a corrupt media with very scewed monetary ideals, where dehumanization is required to perform your work efficiently, where the most corrupt, selfish, individualistic people with psychopathic tendencies will gain immediate advantages, what did people expect?
This is probably the peak of civilization, things won't get much better than it is now. Now there will start a general down slope. A system that favours a monetary elite that is strangling the little man, where everyone believe everyone else are idiots who deserve what they get, where you will take for your own whatever is not bolted to the wall and consider it a right, where all authorities do is basically cheer because their welfare is secured and the general income will only be lower and lower, while everything will only get more expensive... and in all this, people actually believe a monetary price tag is the real price we're paying for this mess (it has been proven a working eco system is worth twice as much to us as if we pick it apart for its resources for completely redundant consumtion)... and we have a system that favours and requires unlimited monetary growth at the expense of the eco system... how can it not lead to a total collapse?
This can turn ugly real fast. My bet is we will see a widespread dictatorship. Well, we basically already have widespread corporatist dictatorship, people just haven't realized it - and probably never will, because they look at the corporatist (the same corporations and banks that already own basically everything and everyone) media for news. If you swallow all the lies, it's not hard to believe everything is just fine and will be, at least long enough for you to live a comfortable life. The same people who haven't realized all their pension funds are literally GONE from speculation and corruption.
The question is: Will people ever try to be aware of all the bullcrap and not close their eyes because it is more convenient, where the indifference in man is favoured on an individual level... will people actually stand up for themselves, and do something about this before it's too late?
And that is why I actually am in favour of the Jante Law. If everyone would work for eachother and see why it is rational, this wouldn't have happened. This is why I consider individuality such a joke, because if you're an individualist and believe it is the answer, you are deeply fooling yourself. Everything is connected and it is the connections with others that are keeping us alive. The only thing to take from individualism are the tools for individual responsibility, because without that, you can't have freedom.
We are calling this civilization. We are still killing eachother for fiat money. Is that what you call civilization? I call it chaotic, destructive barbarism under the illusion of order (another word for controlled mental oppression). What we call problems, is not equivalent to what the system considers as problems. When people don't break laws because they are afraid of the consequences if they get caught, instead of actually believing the act of committing crimes is wrong... you have a problem.
The moment we started believing it is more convenient to take from others than to give and actually appreciate life, we were screwed.
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