Can we Realistically Strip the C From Phanuef?

[HellasLEAF]

You know, I like Phaneuf and have defended him but I think the problem with this team is Phaneuf is THE man here.

That's a problem.

I personally don't care about the C as much as others. The teams has no better alternative unfortunately, he is almost the Captain by default. I don't think that matters as much as people think and based on the 24/7 series, I liked what Dion brings to the locker room and is generally well liked.

The thing is, Dion is a guy that isn't even considered for Team Canada. Just to put it into perspective. He's not a #1 dman for a team with real Stanley Cup aspiration and he is top logging minutes dman, top pp dman, top pk dman, last minute of the game dman and all pressure situations dman.

This guy is on the ice for just about every crucial moment and he's plumb not that good. I don't think he was every touted to be this type of player coming out of jr and has somehow molded himself into this player.

 

[blue82]

By watching the games I dont really think he is the best d-man. The most talented is clearly Rielly but he is a rookie. The most solid is Gunnarsson. The one who seem to step up time after time is Gardiner, even do his work in our zone is not much to brag about. So I dont really think he is the best d-man on the team.

I would not be against to have 3 pairs who share the work load if that meant Dion was not part of it.

i know you have the swedish flag in your avatar and i respect gunner but i believe he has been terrible this year and like Dion he suffers from being in the #1 pairing, dion and gunner would be terrific with less pressure

i agree and i will say that Rielly is way more talented, but right now Phaneuf is more important to this team

 

[ACC1224]

i know you have the swedish flag in your avatar and i respect gunner but i believe he has been terrible this year and like Dion he suffers from being in the #1 pairing, dion and gunner would be terrific with less pressure

i agree and i will say that Rielly is way more talented, but right now Phaneuf is more important to this team

A legitimate partner for Phanuef has always been and continues to be this Teams greatest need. No question Gunnar is the weak link on the top pair.

 

[pucci2001]

I think that Dion, if he has any captain traits in his empty shell of a hockey player he would realize he isn't right for the job and should step down. It would defuse the situation pretty quick, he would gain a lot of respect for doing that as well. If he were to say he is happy to do whatever it takes to help this hockey team including that. It would really go a long way with fans. Don't make coaches/gms etc have to tell him he is awful for the job. If he truly wants to be a Leaf he would step down and issue a challenge to the other players to do a better job.

It would actually be the most captain like act he could do as a Captain.

 

[blue82]

I think that Dion, if he has any captain traits in his empty shell of a hockey player he would realize he isn't right for the job and should step down. It would defuse the situation pretty quick, he would gain a lot of respect for doing that as well. If he were to say he is happy to do whatever it takes to help this hockey team including that. It would really go a long way with fans. Don't make coaches/gms etc have to tell him he is awful for the job. If he truly wants to be a Leaf he would step down and issue a challenge to the other players to do a better job.

It would actually be the most captain like act he could do as a Captain.

sorry but thats not Dion's job to assess if he's captain material, guy takes enough abuse as it is, he doesnt need to be criticised for something like this

 

[ACC1224]

sorry but thats not Dion's job to assess if he's captain material, guy takes enough abuse as it is, he doesnt need to be criticised for something like this

There has never been any indication that the Leafs aren't happy with him as Captain.

 

[pucci2001]

A legitimate partner for Phanuef has always been and continues to be this Teams greatest need. No question Gunnar is the weak link on the top pair.

I think getting a legitimate shutdown top 2 dman is what this team needs. It has nothing to do with Dion. Dion has his own problems separate from who his partner is.

What we need is a TRUE anchor back there, someone that will set a standard for play in our own zone that the other 5-6 guys can adhere to and will hold the other guys accountable.

Dion doesn't offer that skillset, he can't mentor anyone on how to play in our own zone since he is clueless anyways.

We don't have anyone that is respected and known around the league for being stout defensively. Our defense is known to be soft, inexperienced, prone to giveaways. We need at least one guy that can come in and change the game for our defense, not just carry Dion and his lackluster defensive capabilities. All three pairings need a shining example that will force them to up their game.

Ideally, in my opinion we would find a stay at home guy that can play ~25 minutes a night and our top pairing would be Rielly, the new guy. Then slap Dion and Gunner on the 2nd pairing which would give them easier match ups and allow Dion to hover around 20 minutes a night, he has proven time and again that he can't handle more than 21 minutes without turning into a slug or invisible.

 

[blue82]

i think and hope most of us can agree that Dion is not the problem, the problem is the role that he has been given...and i dont mean the roll of captain..i mean the actual role on the ice he has

 

[pucci2001]

sorry but thats not Dion's job to assess if he's captain material, guy takes enough abuse as it is, he doesnt need to be criticised for something like this

I disagree. I think its every single players job to assess the job they are performing whether it be a just a forward or if you choose to accept additional responsibility such as being a captain.

You cant just accept a job because you are offered it and not change how you act according to the job. You also can't just put on blinders and be like **** it, I am the captain until they tell me I am not, I don't care. Thats not what captains do.

He is one of the guys in charge of leading a group of men, by example, through his play with his words, actions. Nobody can tell you how to be a captain but generally he should know if he is doing a piss poor job of it or if his teammates are looking elsewhere than to him.

In my opinion he has exuded no obvious signs he is a leader, his interviews are so vanilla. The words he says from one to another rarely change, he doesn't come off as intelligent or even as if he fully understands what happened in the game they are asking him about. In 24/7 he wasn't exactly a prominent figure either, even other teammates never talked about him. Compare Morgan Rielly's interviews or Lupul's or Bernier's to Dion's. They actually talk about different aspects of the game and have made reference's to specific plays. Dion's standard interview is they are a good team, we have to work harder as a team and reset, get ready for the next one. We have to flush it. Or he says the guys worked hard tonight, got a big 2 points but we have to reset and get ready for the next one. No matter what questions he is asked that is his response. He may as well sneak out the backdoor every night because he isn't saying anything fresh or new or inspiring.

 

[pucci2001]

i think and hope most of us can agree that Dion is not the problem, the problem is the role that he has been given...and i dont mean the roll of captain..i mean the actual role on the ice he has

I agree, but I also think him as Captain is a mistake. He isn't a leader on the ice, which is where it counts most.

I honestly could careless about him having a letter or not I just don't want to see him playing over 22 minutes. Sadly we don't have anyone really capable of bigger minutes than that so someone is always the weak link and it usually ends up being Dion. Dion also needs to learn to block shots or just get the hell out of the way, I've never seen him square up to block a shot its always his stick in the way and him doing the flamingo or just reaching with his stick.

We can address the captain issue later, its a smaller issue than having no true top defender on our roster.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

i know you have the swedish flag in your avatar and i respect gunner but i believe he has been terrible this year and like Dion he suffers from being in the #1 pairing, dion and gunner would be terrific with less pressure

i agree and i will say that Rielly is way more talented, but right now Phaneuf is more important to this team

Gunnar have no place on any teams top pairing, on that I agree. He is however a smart defender with decent enough skills to not make many mistakes. And he is being paid accordingly, $3.15m for a 2nd pairing 2-way d-man is not overpayment. Solid d and around 20 points per season is not bad.

Phaneuf on the other hand is paid to be elite and he constantly have brain cramps. This past month it have been obvious since his mistakes are so obvious and have lead to numerous goals against (-15 in March) but I see tendencies to this all the time, even when he is supposed to play good. And 7x7 for that? No way you can build a successful team like that.

 

[Faltorvo]

I think getting a legitimate shutdown top 2 dman is what this team needs. It has nothing to do with Dion. Dion has his own problems separate from who his partner is.

What we need is a TRUE anchor back there, someone that will set a standard for play in our own zone that the other 5-6 guys can adhere to and will hold the other guys accountable.

Dion doesn't offer that skillset, he can't mentor anyone on how to play in our own zone since he is clueless anyways.

We don't have anyone that is respected and known around the league for being stout defensively. Our defense is known to be soft, inexperienced, prone to giveaways. We need at least one guy that can come in and change the game for our defense, not just carry Dion and his lackluster defensive capabilities. All three pairings need a shining example that will force them to up their game.

Ideally, in my opinion we would find a stay at home guy that can play ~25 minutes a night and our top pairing would be Rielly, the new guy. Then slap Dion and Gunner on the 2nd pairing which would give them easier match ups and allow Dion to hover around 20 minutes a night, he has proven time and again that he can't handle more than 21 minutes without turning into a slug or invisible.

you don't pay someone the 5th highest cap hit among all D to hide him on the 2nd pairing

 

[Faltorvo]

To be fair to Dion, that contract is what he would get in the open market. If you look at Shea Weber and Ryan Suter, they are two #1 pairing dman that are at a similar age to Dion, but with much more skill, and have signed their UFA contracts (I know Weber's wasnt a UFA, but the value of it would have been what he'd get on the open market). If you look at the actual value of the contract, without the nose diving at the end, Suter's contract is a 10 year 9.4 M$ deal and Weber's is a 10 year 10.4 M$ deal. I definitely think that comparing those contracts to Dion's, Dion's would be fair.

while your numbers are accurate , I believe your premise to be a faulty one.

something tells me they would not be getting "the crunched" numbers you posted if there was not the option to back dive, sorry I just don't see it happening.

I just don't see a team blowing out their cap like that even for them

they would be the #1 and #3 cap hits in the entire league with only OVIs bad contract in with them

 

[pucci2001]

you don't pay someone the 5th highest cap hit among all D to hide him on the 2nd pairing

I don't care what his cap hit is. I care about his play on the ice. If Rielly can keep improving like he has this year he would be a great top pairing guy with a good partner to have his back and Dion would still be a great PP dman with big offensive upside with less of a challenge in his own zone. Would you really complain if we do better and Dion still puts up 40 or more points playing as a 2nd pairing guy and first string PP dman? He would actually play like a dman worth 7 million for the whole game and maybe the whole season unlike he does not.

 

[yubbers]

IMO Phaneuf gets insulated by Gunner. He is the true defensive d-men of the 2. Look what happens when Dion doesn't have him. Is he a minus on the PP? :p

 

[bunjay]

A legitimate partner for Phanuef has always been and continues to be this Teams greatest need. No question Gunnar is the weak link on the top pair.

No, this team's greatest need is a real franchise defenseman. Gunnar is a better defenseman than Phaneuf in every situation in which the Leafs don't have the puck, and a few in which they do.

It's Phaneuf getting bailed out by his partner time and time again this year, not the other way around. It's Phaneuf who just doesnt seem to notice forwards getting open behind him, getting beaten in 1-on-1 races, coughing up the puck in his own zone for no reason, blasting it straight into shinpads or bobbling it at the line for a breakaway, getting beaten wide like he's not even there, and totally failing to cover his man around the net.

Gunnarsson leads the team in +/- by a margin of almost 200%, and it's not because of his offensive wizardry. He plays the same minutes Phaneuf does at even strength but is far more reliable for about half the price.

Having watched this season one could argue that Gunnarsson is, in fact, our most important defender right now. Phaneuf's contribution to the powerplay is worth **** all right now. The regularity with which he gets beaten (or perhaps more often, beats himself through sheer stupidity) for good chances or goals should be alarming for everybody. We've put almost 50 million eggs in the Dion Phaneuf basket and he's just not that good.

 

[Faltorvo]

I don't care what his cap hit is. I care about his play on the ice. If Rielly can keep improving like he has this year he would be a great top pairing guy with a good partner to have his back and Dion would still be a great PP dman with big offensive upside with less of a challenge in his own zone. Would you really complain if we do better and Dion still puts up 40 or more points playing as a 2nd pairing guy and first string PP dman? He would actually play like a dman worth 7 million for the whole game and maybe the whole season unlike he does not.

well I can't help you one little bit if you only chose to look at it with a microscope but i'll give it a try.

this 25 min a night top pairing D is going to cost serious assets and cap space

good luck finding the cap space to add that guy and keep dions 7m.

and I would argue, not a bright idea to put MR as top pairing justttt yet.

 

[34]

As long as Phaneuf is on this team they will LOSE.

He is NOT a #1 D in this league or a leader. He is a #3 D on an team worth $3-4M AT MOST!

What a joke... $49M! **** off NONIS!