Can we Realistically Strip the C From Phanuef?

[yubbers]

He isn't even close to "bad"

My god, this board is absolutely ridiculous right now....

I've always said he was bad. Does that make me less ridiculous?

 

[Tak7]

JVR and Bozak IMO come across as possibly the best "leaders" on the team. They both seem to handle the media pretty well, don't seem to get as frustrated as some other guys. Lupul to a certain extent as well, but I want that guy traded so it don't matter anyways

As for actually stripping the C? It's very rare. Marleau had his C taken away and he stayed on the team. That was in an obscure SJ market though, here it would be a media frenzy.

I think LeCavalier had his C stripped in Tampa as well at one point.

Like I said yesterday - you can't strip him from the C without embarrassing him and nailing him on as a failure, which is just not something you want to do with a guy that is signed long term. You risk losing him and throwing him to the wolves before his new contract even kicks in, which doesn't benefit anyone.

PLUS - There's no stand-out replacement for captain in that room.

Some are saying Lupul. Some are saying McClement. Some are saying JvR and Bozak (lol). There's no stand-out, one name that just screams "he should be the next captain", so at that point I question what the hell stripping him of the captaincy even attains, other than, as you perfectly said, creating a **** storm of a media frenzy.

 

[JukofYork]

if the C stood for choke it would suit Dion perfectly.

Give him a D to wear for disgusting

 

[BlackAdam]

Wait for this man who happens to become a FA on the 50th anniversary of our last cup win.

#saviour

a man can dream but it's never gonna happen.
no way tampa will let him walk and even if does, a team like the flyers or rangers will sign him to a super high contract that the leaf management never try to take part in unless it's a 4th line player.

 

[bunjay]

i don't think it's fair to completely blame phaneuf.
phaneuf was a stud very early on in the season.
the main problem is that the leafs have way too many offensive defensemen shored up on the blueline. this forces carlyle to play phaneuf excessively. he's on the ice to protect leads, kill penalties, help produce the tying or go-ahead-goal. who else are the leafs going to put out on the ice to protect a lead in the third period? cody franson? i'm pretty sure if the leafs had someone on the team to eat minutes like boumweester or a vlasic, phaneuf wouldn't be chastised the way he is.

he's been overplayed and is now prolly burnt out.

If he's being overplayed at average top pairing minutes then he is either not a top pairing defenseman, not in good enough condition physically, or both.

Time to retire the old "Phaneuf is just tired from his crazy minutes" excuse. No, he's not. He is just too passive when the other team has the puck and that's what we're now stuck with. A 7x7 contract for a defenseman who's only 28 but has already been in decline for most of his career. He would not even be on the top pairing for any of the real contenders.

 

[TNTBSOT]

Why does he still have the C? He's the poster boy of mediocrity...

Leafs are never gonna win anything let alone make the playoffs putting the phaneuf on a pedestal with that C and awful contract.

 

[calcal798]

If he's being overplayed at average top pairing minutes then he is either not a top pairing defenseman, not in good enough condition physically, or both.

Time to retire the old "Phaneuf is just tired from his crazy minutes" excuse. No, he's not. He is just too passive when the other team has the puck and that's what we're now stuck with. A 7x7 contract for a defenseman who's only 28 but has already been in decline for most of his career. He would not even be on the top pairing for any of the real contenders.

To be fair to Dion, that contract is what he would get in the open market. If you look at Shea Weber and Ryan Suter, they are two #1 pairing dman that are at a similar age to Dion, but with much more skill, and have signed their UFA contracts (I know Weber's wasnt a UFA, but the value of it would have been what he'd get on the open market). If you look at the actual value of the contract, without the nose diving at the end, Suter's contract is a 10 year 9.4 M$ deal and Weber's is a 10 year 10.4 M$ deal. I definitely think that comparing those contracts to Dion's, Dion's would be fair.

 

[Teeder9]

To be fair to Dion, that contract is what he would get in the open market. If you look at Shea Weber and Ryan Suter, they are two #1 pairing dman that are at a similar age to Dion, but with much more skill, and have signed their UFA contracts (I know Weber's wasnt a UFA, but the value of it would have been what he'd get on the open market). If you look at the actual value of the contract, without the nose diving at the end, Suter's contract is a 10 year 9.4 M$ deal and Weber's is a 10 year 10.4 M$ deal. I definitely think that comparing those contracts to Dion's, Dion's would be fair.

Except the nose diving at the end is part of the contract, ergo, cap hit is 7.86m compared to Phaneuf's 7m

 

[Stephen]

He isn't even close to "bad"

My god, this board is absolutely ridiculous right now....

Results don't matter?

 

[bunjay]

To be fair to Dion, that contract is what he would get in the open market. If you look at Shea Weber and Ryan Suter, they are two #1 pairing dman that are at a similar age to Dion, but with much more skill, and have signed their UFA contracts (I know Weber's wasnt a UFA, but the value of it would have been what he'd get on the open market). If you look at the actual value of the contract, without the nose diving at the end, Suter's contract is a 10 year 9.4 M$ deal and Weber's is a 10 year 10.4 M$ deal. I definitely think that comparing those contracts to Dion's, Dion's would be fair.

And we gave Clarkson 'market value' as well. How does the possibility these contracts could have crippled other teams change the fact that it's the Leafs being crippled?

 

[yubbers]

What makes it worse is Ottawa would have gotten him most likely if we passed.

 

[ClarkSittler]

I don't want the C stripped, I want him gone period.

 

[hockeystick89]

To be fair to Dion, that contract is what he would get in the open market. If you look at Shea Weber and Ryan Suter, they are two #1 pairing dman that are at a similar age to Dion, but with much more skill, and have signed their UFA contracts (I know Weber's wasnt a UFA, but the value of it would have been what he'd get on the open market). If you look at the actual value of the contract, without the nose diving at the end, Suter's contract is a 10 year 9.4 M$ deal and Weber's is a 10 year 10.4 M$ deal. I definitely think that comparing those contracts to Dion's, Dion's would be fair.

Oh you mean that same open market that netted us Clarkson at a cool $5.25 M over 7 years? The UFA market is not a good indicator of player value.

 

[Ratboy]

Results don't matter?

Not in Toronto.

 

[diceman934]

When I was in hockey, I always refused to wear the C, because whenever I had it on, I would start overthinking the game, and trying to do too much. I always wore an A other then the one season the coach forced me to wear the C and it was my worst season.

I think Dion is similar, and that he would be better without it.

However, to say he doesn't deserve it is just ********. You, I, nor anybody else has a clue what he is like in the room. Players constantly say they love him as a captain. He is have a stretch of bad games, but so is the whole team. He was great, and playing arguably his best hockey as a Leaf before the Olympic Break.

So yes, maybe he can't "handle it" but none of us can say he doesn't deserve it.

He does not deserve it. I have posted my reasons as to way far to many times.... Hint the players are not in love with him as the captain. What would you expect them to say about him when interviewed.

He never should have been named captain in the first place. The worse captain of all time and I believe that he needs to go before we can improve. I have been saying this for 3 years so not at all a pile on poster.

 

[diceman934]

To be fair to Dion, that contract is what he would get in the open market. If you look at Shea Weber and Ryan Suter, they are two #1 pairing dman that are at a similar age to Dion, but with much more skill, and have signed their UFA contracts (I know Weber's wasnt a UFA, but the value of it would have been what he'd get on the open market). If you look at the actual value of the contract, without the nose diving at the end, Suter's contract is a 10 year 9.4 M$ deal and Weber's is a 10 year 10.4 M$ deal. I definitely think that comparing those contracts to Dion's, Dion's would be fair.

Nope .... Dion is over paid has been since he signed that contract with Calgary . He is not a number one d man and yet has been paid as an elite one!

 

[The Kessel Run]

Actually it's been Gardiner. Phaneuf hasn't played well at all this season and is one our worst penalty killers this year. They probably need to limit his minutes, but he is more of a 2nd pairing defenseman playing top heavy minutes.

Gardiner has probably been their best d-man the last 2 weeks, but even then he's been an adventure at best

 

[ACC1224]

Title says is all... Can we, just like Roberto Louongo

Or is it a different situation here?

Thoughts?

Luongo is a Goalie and was never recognized as a Captain other than internally.

As for Phanuef, I don't see how you can strip him, he'd have to be shipped out.

No way the Leafs are even considering stripping him, no reason to that the fans have seen.

 

[indigobuffalo]

The comments on this thread lead me to suspect I've passed through a wormhole into an alternate reality...

 

[indigobuffalo]

Nope .... Dion is over paid has been since he signed that contract with Calgary . He is not a number one d man and yet has been paid as an elite one!

Interesting. Since I assume you're relying on your imagination to state this, that's very imaginative of you.

Stats suggest he is elite, and watching the games suggest he is elite. Not sure where you'd be pulling this assessment from other than off those two categories.

So to add to your comments, I would suggest we promote Phaneuf to Archbishop Captain of the Leafs and sign Unicorn and Pegasus to some contracts and put them both at LLW on the Ath line...

Uh... is really necessary here?

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Interesting. Since I assume you're relying on your imagination to state this, that's very imaginative of you.

Stats suggest he is elite, and watching the games suggest he is elite. Not sure where you'd be pulling this assessment from other than off those two categories.

So to add to your comments, I would suggest we promote Phaneuf to Archbishop Captain of the Leafs and sign Unicorn and Pegasus to some contracts and put them both at LLW on the Ath line...

Uh... is really necessary here?

What stats suggest he is elite?
32nd ranked for TOI/G, 40th ranked for points among d-man, 1st ranked for minor penalties, all players?
If you watch him and see an elite player I guess there is no convincing you he is not.

 

[Mess]

Phaneuf has been playing some of his worst hockey of the season, during the most important time of the season and therefore is contributing directly to the collapse.

That in and of itself could give cause to a chance in the captaincy.

I don't expect it to happen mind you and the only way there is a new captain is if Phaneuf steps down from the position or is traded this summer.

 

[blue82]

think we need more phaneuf threads on this forum thanks!!

anyways the leafs have bigger things to worry about..the fact that dion is their BEST defenseman is one the problems that needs to be dealt with in the offseason, dealing away your BEST defenseman is not the solution is it?

 

[I Believe]

Seems very unlikely.

1) It's very rare to see someone stripped of the C. Likely, Phaneuf would have to get traded.
2) Can't think any home run picks to give the C to. Closest one is Lupul and it wouldn't surprise me if he's not on the team next year.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

think we need more phaneuf threads on this forum thanks!!

anyways the leafs have bigger things to worry about..the fact that dion is their BEST defenseman is one the problems that needs to be dealt with in the offseason, dealing away your BEST defenseman is not the solution is it?

By watching the games I dont really think he is the best d-man. The most talented is clearly Rielly but he is a rookie. The most solid is Gunnarsson. The one who seem to step up time after time is Gardiner, even do his work in our zone is not much to brag about. So I dont really think he is the best d-man on the team.

I would not be against to have 3 pairs who share the work load if that meant Dion was not part of it.