Can we please trade Gardiner now?

[Menzinger]

Gardiner wasn’t the reason Matthews, Marner, JT ect didn’t score.....

 

[lovemyleafs]

He used to be an above average defenseman.

Now he’s awful.

Hasn’t looked the same since game 7 vs Bruins last year.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Let's say the game 7 situation presents itself again this year. You putting Jake on the ice?

Of course I would.

 

[mulefarm]

Why not?

 

[LeafingTheWay]

The thing in those playoff series is that in all of them, there were games where he was not good and cost the team. Regardless of his mean performance, he has always had variance problems and you never know what you get on any given night. There are nights he is the best defenseman (although those are increasingly rare this season) and many nights where he is easily the worst. As people eluded to, in an 82 game season you may be able to get away with that (although it's still bad enough to be noticeable and generally unacceptable), but in a 7 game series, you can not have all of these inconsistent performances. There is a small margin of error, and Gardiner by far needs the largest one on the team to be effective in the long term.

I think you've forgetton those 2 playoff series? He was consistent and the best Dman on the ice. I don't recall a single game where he had a brainfart in those 2 series.

I agree with you need consisyency throughout the playoffs. If we weren't contending, or if we had a replacement for Gardiner on our team, then I would want Gardiner traded for assets. But as of right now, the positives right now to our D group from far outweigh his negatives. His transition play is far too valuable for a D group with Hainsey and Zaitsevs negatives on it. If we acquired Jensen for this push, then yes I would trade Gardiner for assets.

 

[Davidos193]

I think you've forgetton those 2 playoff series? He was consistent and the best Dman on the ice. I don't recall a single game where he had a brainfart in those 2 series.

I agree with you need consisyency throughout the playoffs. If we weren't contending, or if we had a replacement for Gardiner on our team, then I would want Gardiner traded for assets. But as of right now, the positives right now to our D group from far outweigh his negatives. His transition play is far too valuable for a D group with Hainsey and Zaitsevs negatives on it. If we acquired Jensen for this push, then yes I would trade Gardiner for assets.

That was my point earlier in this thread..trade Gardiner for a 1st, and get Jensen which should not cost more than a first. What would he cost? A 2nd round pick + Holl/Marincin?

 

[Daisy Jane]

yup, lets dump our worst defensemen for "high events' aka giveaways....which would be... gasp...MORGAN RIELLY?
OMG he has 62 giveaways this year compared to Jake's 50.
Problem is, our fans our blind to Morgan's faults, and pounce on Jakes. (Jake is far more responsible defensively, Morgan has better offense).
And as far as the eyetest nonsense, if you want to rely on it, better get out some graph paper before the game and make some tables and actually
COUNT the giveaways and gaffes, etc.
It won't be Jake at the top of the list.
Oh well, all the Jake haters will be happy next year when some other team scoops him up at $6mil plus, and we give Zaitsev more ice time!!!

why are you quoting me? like seriously. I didn't say anything about eye tests, i didn't mention anything about gaffes. I didn't mention anything about hating Jake, and I didn't bring up Zaitev.

all I said was, while i appreciate what Jake brings to the team - I don't think he's what we need to commit that much money into. we need someone who is more cerebral with the puck (and without it). That's not Jake. (quite frankly that's not Mo either, but this is about Jake not Mo). all i said was is that i think the team needs to commit to more defensive minded defensemen, vs. having all the high even defensemen (as in plural ) that we have, and are grooming.

so personally. as Jake's a UFA. it would make more sense to get defensemen (as well as defensive minded wingers) to help supplement this team.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

That was my point earlier in this thread..trade Gardiner for a 1st, and get Jensen which should not cost more than a first. What would he cost? A 2nd round pick + Holl/Marincin?

Yup, as long as we can get a replacement (Not as good as Gardiner obviously, but still good) I'm perfectly fine with trading an expiring UFA Gardiner for assets.

Gardiner for 2019 1st + ______
2019 2nd + B level prospect for N.Jensen

Muzzin - Rielly*
Dermott - Jensen
Hainsey - Zaitsev

+ draft in the first round this year. Obviously BPA, but hopefully land a C prospect.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I think you've forgetton those 2 playoff series? He was consistent and the best Dman on the ice. I don't recall a single game where he had a brainfart in those 2 series.

I agree with you need consisyency throughout the playoffs. If we weren't contending, or if we had a replacement for Gardiner on our team, then I would want Gardiner traded for assets. But as of right now, the positives right now to our D group from far outweigh his negatives. His transition play is far too valuable for a D group with Hainsey and Zaitsevs negatives on it. If we acquired Jensen for this push, then yes I would trade Gardiner for assets.

I know he made mistakes in the Washington series just like he did in the second Boston series. Even in the first Boston series I can remember a few instances, but that was a long time ago and really quite irrelevant since Gardiner was used differently and not as developed as he would be today. He was not perfect, and he always makes costly mistakes even when he's playing at his best. I think that is what is so frustrating with him... It's always a part of his game. I know in the first two series he played games that were pretty good on his part, but he still made costly mistakes that impacted the team. Compounded with the fact where there were games that he was not good enough as well, and it's a problem. He needs to be on his game more often than he is, and when he is on his game, he needs to make less mistakes than he still ends up making.

It's not even just giveaways, but it's also just the way he positions himself and makes reads in both ends of the ice. I think that is worse than his purely his giveaways. Everyone in the league gives the puck away, but for guys as good as Gardiner, I do not think it happens nearly as often due to poor reads or not thinking properly as it does for Gardiner. He has so much raw skill, but his IQ just lets him down no matter how well he's playing, and come playoffs, that level of uncertainty is the difference between winning a playoff series and losing it (case in point, last year).

I'm one of Gardiner's biggest critics, but even I am saying we would not trade him unless we are getting another defenseman like Jensen, Gudas or Pesce. It is just my argument that I think he is the guy who should be going out over Zaitsev and Hainsey, because I think Gardiner plays a far less important role to the success of this team than those two now that Muzzin is around (therefore making Gardiner more expendable), he is worth a lot, he won't be back regardless of how good he is, and we need more RD who can defend and play PK, not less.

 

[Maple Leaf]

The loss of gardiner improves our contender status
Tightens up our backend

 

[LeafingTheWay]

I know he made mistakes in the Washington series just like he did in the second Boston series. Even in the first Boston series I can remember a few instances, but that was a long time ago and really quite irrelevant since Gardiner was used differently and not as developed as he would be today. He was not perfect, and he always makes costly mistakes even when he's playing at his best. I think that is what is so frustrating with him... It's always a part of his game. I know in the first two series he played games that were pretty good on his part, but he still made costly mistakes that impacted the team. Compounded with the fact where there were games that he was not good enough as well, and it's a problem. He needs to be on his game more often than he is, and when he is on his game, he needs to make less mistakes than he still ends up making.

It's not even just giveaways, but it's also just the way he positions himself and makes reads in both ends of the ice. I think that is worse than his purely his giveaways. Everyone in the league gives the puck away, but for guys as good as Gardiner, I do not think it happens nearly as often due to poor reads or not thinking properly as it does for Gardiner. He has so much raw skill, but his IQ just lets him down no matter how well he's playing, and come playoffs, that level of uncertainty is the difference between winning a playoff series and losing it (case in point, last year).

I'm one of Gardiner's biggest critics, but even I am saying we would not trade him unless we are getting another defenseman like Jensen, Gudas or Pesce. It is just my argument that I think he is the guy who should be going out over Zaitsev and Hainsey, because I think Gardiner plays a far less important role to the success of this team than those two now that Muzzin is around (therefore making Gardiner more expendable), he is worth a lot, he won't be back regardless of how good he is, and we need more RD who can defend and play PK, not less.

I disagree with your first two paragraphs, but oh well. The debates been there on HFBoards for his whole career, so no point in continuing that debate; we're both stuck with our opinions

And I agree with the fact that unless we get a Jensen/Gudas/Pesce type player, we shouldn't move on from Gardiner before the TDL. But I dsagree with the importance to the team. Hainsey and Zaitsev literally impact the team in a net-negative way. No matter how we slice their 'strengths', they're impacting the team in a negative way. They help us greatly on PK, but not at 5v5. I would rather have Rielly/Muzzin/Gardiner/Dermott play 20+ mins each, and have Marincin/Hainsey/Zaitsev in a sheltered + PK role. Play 13 minutes to lessen their negative impact.

Muzzin (24 mins) - Rielly* (25 mins)
Gardiner (23 mins) - Dermott* (21 mins)
Hainsey (13 mins) - Zaitsev (14 mins)

 

[Papi 4 Hart]

Yup, as long as we can get a replacement (Not as good as Gardiner obviously, but still good) I'm perfectly fine with trading an expiring UFA Gardiner for assets.

Gardiner for 2019 1st + ______
2019 2nd + B level prospect for N.Jensen

Why would a team not in the playoffs trade prospects and picks for an expiring asset?

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Why would a team not in the playoffs trade prospects and picks for an expiring asset?

Why would be trading Gardiner to a team not in the playoffs? I'm talking bout trading him to a playoff team in the West.

There would be so many playoff teams jumping at grabbing Gardiner. Obviously we wouldn't trade him to a rival playoff team in East, only the West.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Gardiner wasn’t the reason Matthews, Marner, JT ect didn’t score.....

yeah he was. He said if they score hes gonna stick around at a discount next year.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Gardiner wasn’t the reason Matthews, Marner, JT ect didn’t score.....

Gardiner is the primary reason the housing market is down and the gas prices are rising this week. Didn't you know?

 

[Maple Leaf]

Gardiner wasn’t the reason Matthews, Marner, JT ect didn’t score.....

Can't score when you turn the puck over and get hemmed in your own zone

 

[drewjenks]

"You" or thousands of Leafs fans? Interesting they don't really cherry pick for anyone else though, right? The Earth is also flat and 911 was an inside job, right? Alcan probably ships you the foil for free at this point.

All we know for sure is that the official story isn't true.

Bad choice of sarcasm.

 

[Notsince67]

Actually wo Jake Zaitsev is a better player than Gardiner.
The Gardiner-Zaitsev pair was brutal for both of them and for the team too.
Zaitsev paired anyone whos not Jake is a good player.

Yikes. Are you serious? Zaitsev is the worse zone denial player I've seen in quite some time. Even if he can take the puck off a player in the dzone, he can't exit the zone. Quite useless IMO

 

[FreeBird]

The loss of gardiner improves our contender status
Tightens up our backend

We lost a 1st and a prospect for JVR, 2nd and a prospect for Bozak, and a 2nd for Leo. after trading a bunch of 2nd rounders, Gardiner would bring a 1st or 2nd and a prospect cannot sustain trading 1st and 2nds and be a consistent Cup contender.

 

[darrylsittler27]

I think Dubas needs to get something for him before he walks and he needs to get a decent haul to make some other moves. Every team except maybe TB has some holes. Besides Gardiner and Brown who else can he move? That being said, if we go with what we have on Defense I accept it as even getting Muzzin makes us better once he fully gels in about 10 more games. Don't get mad but I say get something while you can for him. I don't see Gardiner being the difference between us and a cup this year.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Play 13 minutes to lessen their negative impact.

Muzzin (24 mins) - Rielly* (25 mins)
Gardiner (23 mins) - Dermott* (21 mins)
Hainsey (13 mins) - Zaitsev (14 mins)

I can't even take that seriously... Sorry if this sounds offensive, but that is just so laughably ignorant, even for the staunchest of Hainsey/Zaitsev critics.

 

[member 147413]

Let’s get rid of Gards + Zaitsev and bring in Jensen + Gudas.

Gards for 2019 1st + 2020 2nd

Zaitsev + 2020 2nd + Rasanen for Gudas

2019 3rd + Timashov for Jensen


Out: Gardiner + Zaitsev + Rasanen + 3rd + Timashov

In: 1st + Gudas + Jensen

 

[diceman934]

Gardiner is a good d man who makes mistakes. News flash they all do. Playing with Zaitsev who is at best a #6 who skated all over the ice missing easy reads is hard to do. Just ask Jake Muzzin. Muzzin has looked horrid since playing with Zaitsev and in fact I have been disappointed with Muzzins play thus far as a Leaf. Slow reads and bad pinches which hook hand in hand.

We needed a Right shot d man who could skate at the speed of the game we like to play at and we got a left shot d man who has struggled at playing at the speed we need.
All that I can say is that Muzzin looked good playing along side a super star d man but away from him not so much. Let’s hope it is him just adjusting but one thing is for sure his skating speed leaves you wanting more.

 

[hector morrison]

Of course I would.

Well...I most definitely would not. I'm a once burned twice shy kinda guy.I don't think Jake can handle it...some folks just can't!

 

[Macallan18]

What you don’t seem to understand is, Jakes gaffes lead to scoring chances or goals against.
Reilly’s, aren’t as costly.

Lol only in your mind