Can we please trade Gardiner now?

[LeafingTheWay]

I can't even take that seriously... Sorry if this sounds offensive, but that is just so laughably ignorant, even for the staunchest of Hainsey/Zaitsev critics.

No offense taken. The negative impact comes from their lack of transitioning ability. Just take a look at Muzzin. That's exactly what you want a Hainsey/Zaitsev type to be like. But somehow, they're on the completely opposite side of the spectrum for defensive D-men? Just take a look at the transition plays Muzzin makes. Then take a look at Hainsey. We're very fortunate to have Rielly/Muzzin/Gardiner/Dermott who excel at this ability.

And take a look at other playoff teams. You think Nashville plays their bottom pair 20 mins a night? No. They play them 13 minutes a night. Why on earth would you give your top-4 or even top-2 ONLY 20-21 minutes a night? That's ridiculous and that's what been happening recently with the Leafs.

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

i saw Z having by far his best game 2 games ago.

 

[DcW]

I hate the "own rental" theory. Hated it last year and hate it this year. Asset management is a much better and long term theory. Tampa Bay is about the only team that should be thinking own rental.

That said, trading 51 to a contender out west for a low end 1st or 2nd and a prospect makes sense. Use those assets to trade for a longer term solution that fits in the cap.

 

[Nithoniniel]

i saw Z having by far his best game 2 games ago.

Ouch.

That said, trading 51 to a contender out west for a low end 1st or 2nd and a prospect makes sense. Use those assets to trade for a longer term solution that fits in the cap.

Assets like that doesn't move the needle much for a long-term solution.

 

[DcW]

Ouch.


Assets like that doesn't move the needle much for a long-term solution.

No...but it helps. Keeping a Ufa who is not coming back or "own rental" is fools gold. Getting assets that can be used now or in the future makes sense for most teams right now. I say take advantage of GM's who believe in old school rentals

 

[Nithoniniel]

No...but it helps. Keeping a Ufa who is not coming back or "own rental" is fools gold. Getting assets that can be used now or in the future makes sense for most teams right now. I say take advantage of GM's who believe in old school rentals

I get what you are saying, but we have to remember that the increase he brings in our chances to win this year is also an asset. So we're dealing with a scenario where the player we get back minus Gardiner and the additional asset cost has to be greater than the value Gardiner has to us this year. It wouldn't be easy to pull off.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

No...but it helps. Keeping a Ufa who is not coming back or "own rental" is fools gold. Getting assets that can be used now or in the future makes sense for most teams right now. I say take advantage of GM's who believe in old school rentals

This is the tough one...

Bozak and JVR with Hindsight was a mistake. Should've traded & got assets. But during that season, we owned Boston and played Pitts and Tampa very well. Heck, way better than this season for all those so far. We all know what happened. Our star players minus Marner were not ready for the intensity.

Once again, this season, we have the same damn situation.
We took it to Tampa, We seem to have lost an edge to Boston, but with JT and improved roster we should be able to take it to them given we cant be so unlucky with what happened in the playoffs last year.

Dermott, and Muzzin tightens things up a bit on the back.
Kappy and Johnsson add some very skilled depth upfront this year.
Ennis is a 4th line gem, GOAT seems to be coming along better each game. Lindholm is holding his own.
JT is a workhorse and has chemistry with Marner
Matthews seems to or will hopefully find another gear after facing some adversity.
Kadri is playing smarter this season, less boneheaded revenge plays.

So yeah...Do we realistically have a shot at beating BOS/Tampa/ Caps/ Pitts?

If we do, then hell yeah we need Gardiner this season.

If we think Tampa will spank us, then lets get some assets and make a real move NEXT season, hopefully with Marleau OFF the team

 

[DcW]

I get what you are saying, but we have to remember that the increase he brings in our chances to win this year is also an asset. So we're dealing with a scenario where the player we get back minus Gardiner and the additional asset cost has to be greater than the value Gardiner has to us this year. It wouldn't be easy to pull off.

I get what your saying but I don't think having Gardiner increases the odds enough to win. He's not in the plans moving forward so cash in on him now

 

[TheShape]

Gardiner looks checked out, zero chance he’s back next year and he knows it.

The time to trade him was last summer, we won’t remove assets off the team while we’re gearing for a playoff run.

He’ll walk like JVR and Bozak

 

[london flyer]

flyers have dragged themselves back into contention for a wildcard....gudas has been good....they are not trading him he is signed for next year
...fletcher wants to make playoffs and knows radko has been playing big minutes ....only way he is moved is someone dearly overpays

 

[AllDay28]

Imagine trying to sell "trading away players" to the owners while you make a cup run?

If Gardiner walks, who cares. What exactly do you guys think hes getting on the market? a 3rd? If you think 1/2 you can continue playing hockey sims cause thats not happening.

 

[DcW]

Imagine trying to sell "trading away players" to the owners while you make a cup run?

If Gardiner walks, who cares. What exactly do you guys think hes getting on the market? a 3rd? If you think 1/2 you can continue playing hockey sims cause thats not happening.

Not about selling off just any players...selling off a player who isn't in your long term plans. 51 isnt the difference between winning the cup and losing in the first round. Take those assets and add to them to find a longer term solution.

 

[Paladin2799]

This is the tough one...

Bozak and JVR with Hindsight was a mistake. Should've traded & got assets. But during that season, we owned Boston and played Pitts and Tampa very well. Heck, way better than this season for all those so far. We all know what happened. Our star players minus Marner were not ready for the intensity.

Once again, this season, we have the same damn situation.
We took it to Tampa, We seem to have lost an edge to Boston, but with JT and improved roster we should be able to take it to them given we cant be so unlucky with what happened in the playoffs last year.

Dermott, and Muzzin tightens things up a bit on the back.
Kappy and Johnsson add some very skilled depth upfront this year.
Ennis is a 4th line gem, GOAT seems to be coming along better each game. Lindholm is holding his own.
JT is a workhorse and has chemistry with Marner
Matthews seems to or will hopefully find another gear after facing some adversity.
Kadri is playing smarter this season, less boneheaded revenge plays.

So yeah...Do we realistically have a shot at beating BOS/Tampa/ Caps/ Pitts?

If we do, then hell yeah we need Gardiner this season.

If we think Tampa will spank us, then lets get some assets and make a real move NEXT season, hopefully with Marleau OFF the team

This is my thought as well.

My ideal move would be trading Gardiner for a long term player under control. Doesn't have to be a home run, but a Dermott style reliable top4 defenseman held for a few years would be money. Even if we need to add to Gardiner.

There was banter around maybe a deal for Manson, maybe if we can swing a deal for zaitsev as well, even if we need to move picks.

This team needs to be more focused on managing its cap and players under control then playing for the cup this year.

Muzzin-Reilly
Dermott-Manson

Looks like a solid top4 for the next 2 years.

Might be worth giving up a 2020 1st to get it done especially if it frees up zaitsev.

Maybe make a big swing for someone big on the RD side. Dermott is pretty f***in solid.

 

[thewave]

Lets get this trade done already. I don't want Dubas to sign anyone other than Mitch and that's only becuase Dubas sucks at signings but seems great at tradings and poaching.

 

[Durrr]

Late to the party here, but...No?

 

[Durrr]

Imagine trying to sell "trading away players" to the owners while you make a cup run?

If Gardiner walks, who cares. What exactly do you guys think hes getting on the market? a 3rd? If you think 1/2 you can continue playing hockey sims cause thats not happening.

I agree with most of what you wrote with the trading away players while being a contender, and if we walks, who cares...but...

You think a 40-50 point defenseman is getting a 3rd? Have you paid attention to the deadline market, ever? I know people here think they have Gardiner all figured out, but 3rd line centers return 1st round picks at the deadline(Vermette to the Hawks 2-3 years ago, etc). Put that in context here...

 

[Trapper]

It seems Babcock wants Rielly and Muzzin to stay on the left side.
If we can acquire a permanent RHD, I would move Gardiner as asset management.

Rielly
Muzzin
Dermott
Sandin

Hainsey + Zaitsev + ? on the right.
Ideally we find a partner for Rielly and next year Lily takes 3rd pair.
But get a decent return for Gardiner, even if it’s high picks to compensate the Muzzin trade. They are currency that can be used at a later date after Marner/Kappy/Johnsson are signed.

 

[inthe6ix]

He's an own rental this year and will ride off into the sunset after this playoff run...

 

[AreBe]

I see no benefit to having him on our roster. None whatsoever.

Please Dubas deal him to the highest bidder. If no offers, waive him.

Bring up Rosen. Bring up Sandin. Bring up Borgman. I Don’t care.

He's our rental except we already have him

Dirty little secret: not only does every GM have video of every player, they have advanced analytics too, and every GM has every player in the NHL and AHL ranked, and so for whatever reason you want to move a player is a reason the not - an - idiot other GM does not want him - we are stuck in this snare.

With pro- scouting, video, internet, advanced analytics, spread sheet rankings, salary cap considerations, Secret Sauce (internal calculation ) x $/year/ Pi =X, the odds of any trade ever being made are slim

The Xs need to match up at least or there is no deal there.

Especially if some owners want a 'win the trade or don;t do it' thinking , and the billionaire owners have little patience for hearing how not winning the trade is a good idea, ever, and in fact are unshakable in their personal resolve to win every transaction and can with certainty confirm that doing so leads to a privileged life and that they see no reason to give up that thinking, so there is no trade of future stars for damaged goods (the real, very real, risk of a rental) , and any trade at all if an equal bargain does not constitute a win, and those owners sleep comfortably on mattress stuffed with cash, and if you propose a losing trade, they think you are quite dim

 

[HamiltonNHL]

You don't let your #2 dman walk and pay your 4th best forward $7M

Nylander is trade bait for a solid D.

We got alotta RWers

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I see no benefit to having him on our roster. None whatsoever.

Please Dubas deal him to the highest bidder. If no offers, waive him.

Bring up Rosen. Bring up Sandin. Bring up Borgman. I Don’t care.

So you'd rather create a hole in the top 4 for no reason.

Doing that would be stupid

 

[robertmac43]

Finding the right deal that would help us in the now would have to many moving pieces to be feasible imo.

Plus Gardiner is actually good! Whoa!

 

[FreeBird]

Finding the right deal that would help us in the now would have to many moving pieces to be feasible imo.

Plus Gardiner is actually good! Whoa!

He will make no difference on how many rounds we win or lose going forward.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

He will make no difference on how many rounds we win or lose going forward.

I disagree. He'll definitely cause us to lose games.

 

[FreeBird]

I disagree. He'll definitely cause us to lose games.

I was trying to be Diplomatic.