Can we call the Penguins era a disappointment?

[Thunderhead]

What Pens era ?

 

[WarriorofTime]

No ovechkin just doesn't have the ability to make plays. Just shoot. Overhyped kovalchuk

Guess you missed game 1

 

[Bennett Brauer]

You know what's funny? The Penguins only have these "generational players" when it fits their argument. I've seen plenty of people say they aren't even generational, that they're not even the best, McDavid is better than Sid, Ovechkin is better than Sid, Peter Forsberg is better than Sid, Lindros is better than Sid, everyone is better than Sid and Malkin is LUCKY to be considered a top 10 forward.

However, since they haven't won a Cup in 6 years "of course they're a disappointment, they're two generational talents, Pens suck"

Never change, HF

 

[Sam Spade]

No way, no how. That Cup win should buy you ten years worth of good will, considering how hard it actually is to win one.

Two finals appearances, one win, they were pretty friggin' successful.

 

[DanZ]

Right, he just got all those assists randomly distributed him to him as a consequence of playing with his amazing wingers, and it has nothing to do with him actually being a great playmaker and going to corners to win puck battles instead of waiting for one-timers.

The opportunity for everybody to get those secondary assists is there if you're willing and able to go get them. If you're not getting them, there's a reason, and it's got nothing to do with luck or leeching off linemates or WHATEVER reason it is that Ovechkin fan seem to think.

The reason is their difference in playing styles. Ovechkin plays to his strengths, which is his physicality and shot. Crosby plays to his strength, his playmaking. Difference is, playmakers get two chances to register a point from an assist. That's why goalscorers almost never win the Art Ross. Much easier to accumulate points and win the Art Ross for a playmaker.

 

[third man in]

You know what's funny? The Penguins only have these "generational players" when it fits their argument. I've seen plenty of people say they aren't even generational, that they're not even the best, McDavid is better than Sid, Ovechkin is better than Sid, Peter Forsberg is better than Sid, Lindros is better than Sid, everyone is better than Sid and Malkin is LUCKY to be considered a top 10 forward.

However, since they haven't won a Cup in 6 years "of course they're a disappointment, they're two generational talents, Pens suck"

Never change, HF

It goes both ways. I've seen a lot of Pens fans say they have the best 2 players in the world. Like its unanimous.

 

[Syckle78]

No ovechkin just doesn't have the ability to make plays. Just shoot. Overhyped kovalchuk

Now you're just typing stupid stupid crap for the sake of saying stupid crap.

 

[Eisen]

All the Penguins had to do, was acquire a reliable goalie. MA Fleury has been horrible since they won the Cup in 2009. He wasn't even that great for their Stanley Cup year. I guarantee if Pittsburgh got rid of Fleury, and replaced him with a good netminder, the Penguins would have 2 or possibly 3 Stanley Cups in the last 6 years.

First of all, they had Greiss, who is very reliable. Second, Fleury was good this season (which bothered me, cause I wanted Greiss to play more).

 

[RedLeaf099*]

Considering Crosby has played with Kunitz and Dupuis most of his career, can you really see them winning many Stanley Cups? Like someone said above....i think that 1 cup win makes up for it all. Still shocked that they didn't win 2 years ago when they brought Iginla and Morrow in at the deadline. Team was beyond STACKED. Then they got swept by the bruins. Couldn't believe it.

 

[NightmanCometh]

Considering Crosby has played with Kunitz and Dupuis most of his career, can you really see them winning many Stanley Cups? Like someone said above....i think that 1 cup win makes up for it all. Still shocked that they didn't win 2 years ago when they brought Iginla and Morrow in at the deadline. Team was beyond STACKED. Then they got swept by the bruins. Couldn't believe it.

Honestly I've always felt like that was the major turning point with for Pens (and Crosby, to an extant). Prior to that series they were the favorite in the East and many predicted them to win the Cup on a yearly basis. After that series, something changed. The Bruins edged the Pens as the dominant team in the East and that really seemed to screw things up in Pittsburgh. Of course both teams are facing issues right now but I do think that playoff series hit them pretty hard... comparable to last year's Montreal-Boston series for Boston.

 

[Benedict Kovalchuk]

Team was beyond STACKED. Then they got swept by the bruins. Couldn't believe it.

Eh, it's not that strange. That team got a LOT slower after the deadline.

Honestly I've always felt like that was the major turning point with for Pens (and Crosby, to an extant). Prior to that series they were the favorite in the East and many predicted them to win the Cup on a yearly basis. After that series, something changed. The Bruins edged the Pens as the dominant team in the East and that really seemed to screw things up in Pittsburgh. Of course both teams are facing issues right now but I do think that playoff series hit them pretty hard... comparable to last year's Montreal-Boston series for Boston.

I would agree with this. The psychological impact hit em hard, plus all the assets they gave up in those trades that year as well as years of few young players and prospects coming up, especially up front.

 

[Mpasta]

You know what's funny? The Penguins only have these "generational players" when it fits their argument. I've seen plenty of people say they aren't even generational, that they're not even the best, McDavid is better than Sid, Ovechkin is better than Sid, Peter Forsberg is better than Sid, Lindros is better than Sid, everyone is better than Sid and Malkin is LUCKY to be considered a top 10 forward.

However, since they haven't won a Cup in 6 years "of course they're a disappointment, they're two generational talents, Pens suck"

Never change, HF

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Lindros was better than Crosby. We're talking about getting concussions right?

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

I would say they have underachieved and disappointed given expectations

Also it doesn't help to see the success Hawks + Kings have had in same time frame

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Again, the Pens aren't a disappointment overall but the Flyers and the Bruins ruined them.
They're not a top contender anymore, and likely won't be again with JR and Johnston.

 

[Bennett Brauer]

Again, the Pens aren't a disappointment overall but the Flyers and the Bruins ruined them.
They're not a top contender anymore, and likely won't be again with JR and Johnston.

Change "likely won't" to "might not" because YOU NEVER KNOW! Pens were 22-6-4 with a PP clicking at an great percentage before injuries struck. Again, I know injuries happen in hockey but we are always hit hard with them, we're not talking "day to day" stuff, key players have been out for weeks at a time with injury. You absolutely cannot judge the job Johnston has done after one season with the lineup he had. If the Pens stay healthy and add more quality to the team like another top 6 winger, we might be having a different conversation next year. People call it an "injury excuse" no it's a fact and a reason to have a down year, 5th in the league in Man games lost, no team in the league survives the injures we had, none of them, not Chicago, not the Rangers, no team at all.

The Pens have a bright future with some quality youth to look forward to at the moment, Pouliot, Maatta, Harrington, Dumoulin, Sundqvist, Kapanen, Murray, Jarry, and I'm sorry but other than the Simon Despres-Ben Lovejoy gamble, I have 0 complaints about the job Rutherford has done. He really did improve this team more than Shero did, and I wish more people would realize that.

People forget Shero thought a bottom 6 of Glass, Sutter, Kobasew, D'Agostini, Vitale, and Adams was acceptable. Rutherford thought Spaling, Sutter, Downie, Winnik, Lapierre, and Comeau was a little better, I would agree, wouldn't anyone else? Hornqvist played awesome and filled a need, sure we lost James Neal but it was worth it, Hornqvist is a heart and soul player who covers every part of the ice. When Dupuis went down, we replaced him in the top 6 with a more skilled guy and better player in David Perron, sure it costed us a 1st but I think we have enough youth that the pick was expendable, considering we NEEDED a top 6 winger and we just drafted Kapanen, it seems like a no brainer. Also, Bortuzzo for Cole? Do people realize we turned a 6/7 defenseman into a potential top 4 defenseman?

The Despres for Lovejoy trade was stupid in every sense of the word, Rutherford said he wanted an experienced right handed defenseman, but most Pens fans believe that wasn't JR's call, it could have been one of his AGM's who know Lovejoy like Botterill or Fitzgerald. With that said, that's the only move I'm unhappy with, and it's not even a big deal with Ian Cole here, as well as the names on defense that I mentioned above.

People can trash Rutherford and Johnston all they want, fans of the Pens, other team's fans, it doesn't matter what anybody thinks, hell it doesn't matter what I think but I am confident that they can get the job done, I think Johnston is a better coach than Bylsma by a mile, and I think Rutherford has done a pretty good job from the time he was hired to now, people can mention Carolina all they want, he's not being asked to do the same thing here as he was in Carolina, he doesn't have to build a core, he has that with Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Fleury, he's asked to mentor Botterill, Fitzgerald and Guerin (like he did Francis) and build around the core which he has done in Carolina and he is doing here.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

Yes. For the amount of hype and skill Crosby/Malkin had/have, yes.

But can also be said about the Lemieux/Jagr era. They won their cups with pretty stacked teams in 91 and 92, but that was well before Jagr prime.

So Penguins in general are a bust franchise who underachieve and only have three Stanley Cups when they should have 10+.

Sincerely,
Jealous Sabres Fan

 

[chi777]

Total disappointment. Anyone who say otherwise has either low standards or is lying to themselves.

I think if you asked any Pens fan after they won in 09 if they'd be happy if that was the last time they'd even come close to a Cup they would have said you were crazy. I think we could go back and look at some old posts where there was a consensus that the Pens would the dominant eastern team for a long. Them not being able to make it back over the last 6 years is a colossal disappointment.

 

[Bennett Brauer]

Total disappointment. Anyone who say otherwise has either low standards or is lying to themselves.

I think if you asked any Pens fan after they won in 09 if they'd be happy if that was the last time they'd even come close to a Cup they would have said you were crazy. I think we could go back and look at some old posts where there was a consensus that the Pens would the dominant eastern team for a long. Them not being able to make it back over the last 6 years is a colossal disappointment.

It's been disappointing to not see them back there as a Pens fan, but I don't think the era itself is a disappointment. In those 6 years, 2 series were one win away from the ECF, one actually was the ECF, the 2012 Flyers series was a major disappointment. 2011 and 2015 first round exits can be blamed on injuries as far as I'm concerned. No Crosby, Malkin or Cooke (suspension) for the 2011 Tampa Bay series, and no Letang, Ehrhoff, Maatta or Pouliot for the 2015 Rangers series. If we have a healthy lineup, it could be different, it might not be, never know.

 

[member 51464]

That 2011 team was playing some great hockey without the big guns. It is a shame they couldn't pull it out.

 

[Lomez]

I am still intrigued over the use of the word "disappointment." Most non-Pens fans aren't disappointed at all; in fact, I would argue most are giddy and gleeful like snarky middle school girls. I also remained puzzled by the use of "era." "Eras" are generally based on extended periods of dominance or achievement, they are not speculative. So, how can people be "disappointed" in an "era" that never was? You people are strange.

No one can ever predict what will happen in sports, it's what makes it interesting. Besides, most of the teams supported by the repetitive commentators in this thread have never won a cup or it's been an incredibly long time--so be disappointed in the Pens all you want. Enjoy.

 

[leafsfan5]

yes, you have 2 generational talents and an elite offensive d-man and can't build around them to win more than 1 cup? Yikes

 

[Lomez]

yes, you have 2 generational talents and an elite offensive d-man and can't build around them to win more than 1 cup? Yikes

Couldn't the same be said for Kessel, Bozak and Phaneuf? Seriously, no Cups?

 

[leafsfan5]

Couldn't the same be said for Kessel, Bozak and Phaneuf? Seriously, no Cups?

If I remember correctly they aren't generational talents.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Change "likely won't" to "might not" because YOU NEVER KNOW! Pens were 22-6-4 with a PP clicking at an great percentage before injuries struck. Again, I know injuries happen in hockey but we are always hit hard with them, we're not talking "day to day" stuff, key players have been out for weeks at a time with injury. You absolutely cannot judge the job Johnston has done after one season with the lineup he had. If the Pens stay healthy and add more quality to the team like another top 6 winger, we might be having a different conversation next year. People call it an "injury excuse" no it's a fact and a reason to have a down year, 5th in the league in Man games lost, no team in the league survives the injures we had, none of them, not Chicago, not the Rangers, no team at all.

The Pens have a bright future with some quality youth to look forward to at the moment, Pouliot, Maatta, Harrington, Dumoulin, Sundqvist, Kapanen, Murray, Jarry, and I'm sorry but other than the Simon Despres-Ben Lovejoy gamble, I have 0 complaints about the job Rutherford has done. He really did improve this team more than Shero did, and I wish more people would realize that.

People forget Shero thought a bottom 6 of Glass, Sutter, Kobasew, D'Agostini, Vitale, and Adams was acceptable. Rutherford thought Spaling, Sutter, Downie, Winnik, Lapierre, and Comeau was a little better, I would agree, wouldn't anyone else? Hornqvist played awesome and filled a need, sure we lost James Neal but it was worth it, Hornqvist is a heart and soul player who covers every part of the ice. When Dupuis went down, we replaced him in the top 6 with a more skilled guy and better player in David Perron, sure it costed us a 1st but I think we have enough youth that the pick was expendable, considering we NEEDED a top 6 winger and we just drafted Kapanen, it seems like a no brainer. Also, Bortuzzo for Cole? Do people realize we turned a 6/7 defenseman into a potential top 4 defenseman?

The Despres for Lovejoy trade was stupid in every sense of the word, Rutherford said he wanted an experienced right handed defenseman, but most Pens fans believe that wasn't JR's call, it could have been one of his AGM's who know Lovejoy like Botterill or Fitzgerald. With that said, that's the only move I'm unhappy with, and it's not even a big deal with Ian Cole here, as well as the names on defense that I mentioned above.

People can trash Rutherford and Johnston all they want, fans of the Pens, other team's fans, it doesn't matter what anybody thinks, hell it doesn't matter what I think but I am confident that they can get the job done, I think Johnston is a better coach than Bylsma by a mile, and I think Rutherford has done a pretty good job from the time he was hired to now, people can mention Carolina all they want, he's not being asked to do the same thing here as he was in Carolina, he doesn't have to build a core, he has that with Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Fleury, he's asked to mentor Botterill, Fitzgerald and Guerin (like he did Francis) and build around the core which he has done in Carolina and he is doing here.

That's a lot of work for a GM who has huge blunders in his resume and an unproven coach. A lot of stars have to align for the Pens if they want to have success in the future. Just remember that Crosby and Malkin are not getting any younger, the window of opportunity is closing a little bit every year as they age.

You mention the Pens youth but with the exception of Maatta and Pouliot, they are a long way from becoming impact players in the NHL. Right now, the lack of depth is what hurts the Pens most. If Crosby and Malkin are not stepping up, no one is.

The goaltending is not very reliable either. Fleury played well this year, but he can **** the bed real quick for his team.

The injuries are not just a result of bad luck. The team is built with injury prone players. Letang and Malkin have yearly subscriptions to the infirmary. Management should look in free agency for players with very little injury history.

There is a thread on the main boards discussing how bad the Pens are at drafting. In the past 10 years, only Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Muzzin (gone), Staal (also gone) and Sutter were drafted directly by the Pens. They need better scouts to find the talent outside of the 1st round. It doesn't help that JR traded a 1st round pick for Perron.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

People forget Shero thought a bottom 6 of Glass, Sutter, Kobasew, D'Agostini, Vitale, and Adams was acceptable. Rutherford thought Spaling, Sutter, Downie, Winnik, Lapierre, and Comeau was a little better, I would agree, wouldn't anyone else?

That is a false distinction.

1. Playoffs seem to be the measuring stick here considering you mention Winnik and Lapierre in JR's group, but Kobasew and D'Agostini didn't play a single playoff game for the Pens. Kobasew was a tryout who flamed out and eventually waived, and D'Agostini was an injury replacement acquisition a la Arcobello and Klinkhammer, who you conveniently omitted from JR's resume. Sub in Goc and Bennett for D'Ags and Kobasew.

2. Nobody thinks the first group is better, but Shero had 5 mil less to work with because of the cap rollback. That is the difference in quality depth.