Confirmed with Link: Cam Atkinson traded to PHI for Jake Voracek
- Thread starter MAHJ71
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It doesn't matter who was. It doesn't matter what Roslovic does. Or what PLD does. That's really dumb to even take that into consideration when you're making decisions about Laine.
We don't know if Jarmo still wants Laine here. Maybe he thinks about his trade now. Although I think that not and you're right.
What's happen players - Savard and Foligno get a chance to play for SC. And a team has had to give a chance young boys. Jones himself wanted a trade. Voracek - for our new style is better. He's a playmaker with good play around the boards. One is strong, has excelent hockey IQ/Vision. Cam's style... run, run, run and still once run. And shot. Besides, Werenski, Jenner, Nyquist and Bjorkstrand are here. And if players are traded only for Patrik the others would know it. What it wouldn't be good for the locker room.
I assume Jarmo does know what a sunk cost is and doesn't believe this is one. I mean, I know what "sunk cost" is and I think Jarmo is smarter than I am in this context. We all know your feelings on the matter, and I think Jarmo's feelings on the matter are also clear. You've been against the acquisition from the start, and I believe JK has always believed in Laine. Just laying down the term "sunk cost" like it closes the case in your favor is not compelling to me.
As for the second part, are you able to point out another instance in which a player with the cachet of Cam Atkinson has been given carte blanche to shape the roster? Just because the meeting was called does not mean that veteran rostered players have any kind of active voice in roster decisions; and in the case of Cam Atkinson, I don't think they should. Do you? He may speak his mind, but the GM has the right to interpret that accordingly.
I mean, sure Cam has that right but how much do you want to act upon Cam's takes, mm? To me, if he's going to be borderline toxic re: Laine, the problem is more with Cam.
Crazy (to me) that Brassard is still active!
Edit: actually, ditto Russel (who I always pulled for) and John Moore. I'm afraid I don't really remember Nick Holden, but good for him.
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O.K. And Laine who can be NHL star JARMO will trade for nothing. We say about JARMO!!! Patrik's value is tragical and Jarmo knows it. Yes we can find a mad GM but.... .
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Iron Balls McGinty
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And still plays center better than most of our current centers.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
Ah, yes, the standard approach of the Determined To Be Depressed. The actual good parts don't actually count, because, y'know, something something mumble mumble reasons.
Seriously, even if your argument didn't depend on the sunk cost fallacy at all, even then it doesn't apply.
That may or not be true, IBM, but I do remember a time when he was a whipping boy on these boards. I remember watching him on the Rags and actively rooting against him. I don't think that was an usual take around here.
Sorry but teach Jarmo business is funny. Especially if we see results his trades. "Sunk costs" it were Panarin and Bobrovsky but only because Jarmo wanted to fight in PO. Similar like Duchene. In this season...Domi? He's a center.
The trade was a shock for sure. No one saw it coming. Jake is my all-time favorite Jacket, hands down. I think he's a good fit as a pass-first winger to feed Laine and improve our PP. I'm looking forward to the season if for no other reason than it's a new-look CBJ. (even with our old friend Jake) I didn't know I was ready for a change, but now that it is here, I am all in. Frankly, I am pretty much always all in. I don't know any other way to fan.
The cheerleader types like Fligs and Cam are gone now and other than Jack, I don't see a replacement there. I don't mean that in a derogatory way, either. It will be interesting to not hear the sometimes forced positivity from players. Not criticizing Nick or Cam, because I sure appreciated their positivity especially about the city if not the team, but the circumstances were draining for sure.
Side note, what's up with MDZ? No contract for next year with any team as of now, right?
The cheerleader types like Fligs and Cam are gone now and other than Jack, I don't see a replacement there. I don't mean that in a derogatory way, either. It will be interesting to not hear the sometimes forced positivity from players. Not criticizing Nick or Cam, because I sure appreciated their positivity especially about the city if not the team, but the circumstances were draining for sure.
Side note, what's up with MDZ? No contract for next year with any team as of now, right?
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Wait, so you also think Laine is sunk cost fallacy? You've also given up on him?
There's a definitely a chance you guys are right, but I think you're jumping the gun. I think MiM is right that Jarmo will live or die by this player, and he might well lose his job over Laine, but I think since his draft year JK wanted Laine. I think JD is going to see how it plays out and make decisions accordingly.
Personally, I have a hard time thinking we know what this kid is really, because of Covid and his trade here during that time. I still think there's a chance (a good one) that he's special.
But ultimately, as much as I love Cam, for a rostered player to insist or pressure on the release of another player (who came in under such abnormal circumstances), that doesn't sit well with me. I don't know if it's true but if Cam was really against the kid, I think that's rotten.
But admittedly I do think Laine has a chance to be special.
- that's not what a sunk cost is. Laine isn't the sunk cost. What we paid to get him is a sunk cost. And that's true regardless of whether Laine scores 10 goals or 100.
- the veterans who built this team (it was in the Richards Era, pre-Torts) had to weed a lot of bullshit out of the locker room. If they feel what they built is in danger it is their duty to call it out. Think of the Bruins - if their core guys detect any threat to the room or the team work ethic, that player is gone in a hurry.
That's not sunk cost either.
The cost of acquisition is always a sunk cost and that's true regardless of whether you're giving up on the player or whether you think he's great.
CBJWerenski8
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I could be wrong, but I believe Jarmo really wanted to draft Laine. I think he's pretty invested in the kid. It might cost him his job, but I think he believes in him that much.
-Are there examples you can provide of the veterans who built this team actually doing that? Who got weeded out? I'm not challenging you, I want to remember. I will say, though, even if that were so, is that in your opinion comparable to Cam Atkinson taking on that role on his own, and is Cam Atkinson and Cam Atkinson's Blue Jackets comparable to the Boston Bruins?
I don't think so, myself. I love Cam and I hope he lights it up in Philly but he hasn't moved the needle much here in Columbus since Panarin left. If he's out there giving Jarmo an earful about Laine, while not leading the Jackets to the playoffs, then I'm not sure how valuable he is Columbus, honestly.
(ok maybe I don't know what sunk cost is after all lol)
I will not comment on MAJORMAJOR's views as they are completely different in this case.
I was interested in the second thing. Look, Philly wanted to trade Voracek, I think a draft pick would have been enough for them. But Jarmo offered Atkinson, even though we don't have salary cap issues. Besides, Cam is a franchise legend.
To me there are two possible reasons.
1th the style of Voracek is better for the team since, unlike Cam, he has a high hockey IQ/vision and one is a playmaker. And to make room for youth, he sacrificed Cam because Nyquist is more a playmaker too.
2th Cam actually had some notes. In that case, he could have traded him to make it clear that this will not be tolerated. But not sure yet what will happen with Laine. Whether he will be traded as well, since if he stayed, it could upset the mood in the locker room, or leadership supported Patrik.
I believe that the 1th version and not the 2th or both.
I was interested in the second thing. Look, Philly wanted to trade Voracek, I think a draft pick would have been enough for them. But Jarmo offered Atkinson, even though we don't have salary cap issues. Besides, Cam is a franchise legend.
To me there are two possible reasons.
1th the style of Voracek is better for the team since, unlike Cam, he has a high hockey IQ/vision and one is a playmaker. And to make room for youth, he sacrificed Cam because Nyquist is more a playmaker too.
2th Cam actually had some notes. In that case, he could have traded him to make it clear that this will not be tolerated. But not sure yet what will happen with Laine. Whether he will be traded as well, since if he stayed, it could upset the mood in the locker room, or leadership supported Patrik.
I believe that the 1th version and not the 2th or both.
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Xoggz22
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??? They are all Jackets are they not? Then they are part of the Jackets community.
I'm not sure Philly did want to trade Voracek. I know they left him exposed, but I understood there to be an agreement that Seattle wouldn't select him. That might just be rumor, I don't know; but I feel like the latest was that he himself requested a trade away from Philly.
I think it's definitely plausible that Jarmo wanted to trade Cam because Cam was critical of Laine on the roster and was being vocal about it. I think Jarmo only thanking Cam for his service, in an unsentimental way, supports that.
I guess I'm curious, for those of us who are stricken by Cam being traded, if he was Portzline's source for team disunity over Laine, is that cool with you? Does Cam deserve that kind of influence?
To me, if true, no. His performance doesn't entitle him to that. And I believe Jake will do better here (and I hope Cam does well in Philly)
If an agreement I would expect some drafts/prospectd for it. But again it`s very imortant what the team thinks about it. Foligno, after his trade, said: (I translated it thanks to Deepl, because although I speak Russian fluently it isn`t my language, I`m Slovak):
Original here: but I was lazy to look for this minute.
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Iron Balls McGinty
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And this I agree with.
While we might have loved some players here. I don't think a single one of our core veterans are in a position to lead us into being stanley cup contenders. The stink of just being a happy to make the playoffs has set in for those who were here for that entire period. I feel like every single veteran including Torts on this team last year got complacent and tired of fighting to just squeak into the playoffs.
We always knew we weren't as talented as other teams but we got in by working hard. The problem is that teams who are talented and work hard are the ones who succeed. It sucks that the talent all wanted to go other places for various reasons. This is why we need to blow it up. I've been absolutely critical of Jarmo and his moves over the last couple of years that led us to this point but we have no choice but to try to dig out of it the right way.
This will be a new team this coming season. It can't get much worse than it was this past season but if it is ever going to get better we need to be making the right changes to the talent level on this team and frankly Cam has been a disappointment the last couple of years.
If an agreement I would expect some drafts/prospectd for it. But again it`s very imortant what the team thinks about it. Foligno, after his trade, said: (I translated it thanks to Deepl, because although I speak Russian fluently it isn`t my language, I`m Slovak):
Original here: but I was lazy to look for this minute.
Sorry Vesele, I don't completely follow, but generally if there was an agreement about Jake with Seattle, I'd also expect drafts/prospects. But Ron Francis seems to be doing a poor job so it's hard to say in this instance. But bottom line, at least on the mains, the trade request came from Voracek, not Philly "wanting" to trade him.
And if when you say "it's very important what the team thinks about it" in regard to Laine on the Jackets, well I don't know. Who is the team, at this point? I think that's a dangerous road, for one thing. But in this instance, if it's JUST Cam who doesn't like Laine, well to me that's a problem. Regardless of how I feel about either of them. Cam is not a superstar. He's not really even a star the past two seasons. So if (IF!) he's coming out being kinda toxic towards another rostered player, well he hasn't earned that right, in my opinion- as much as I support him in general.
