Call of Duty: Modern Warfare (2019)

[Gardner McKay]

That trailer admittedly got me hyped a little. I didn’t get BO4 so maybe I’ll pick this one up.

I can't lie, it looks good.

 

[MAHJ71]

I can't lie, it looks good.

Samesies ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Warden of the North]

OK, Ive never played on single second of a COD game, but the noise over the naming conventions is just getting silly

Why dnt they just drop numbererd titles entirely and just have it be "COD: Modern Warfare 2019" and then in three years just COD: Modern Warfare 2022. Does ayone really care about the number convention? Everyone knows theres a new COD coming every year.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

As much as I'd like to get excited about this, I'd bet 10 bucks we get a bunch of congested multiplayer maps that have three basic north to south routes that make the game an absolute strategy and skill absent, live-die-repeat, free for all.

The last 5-7 years of this game has been absolute shit as far as multiplayer maps go. Nuketown and all the little kids who voted for it incessantly probably had a lot to do with it. Gone are the days of fantastically constructed maps like Favela. I doubt they're ever coming back.

 

[Blitzkrug]

https://i.redd.it/jm1yp4t8yd131.jpg

Rumor has it, its something to do with suicide bombers and apparently playing as a kid in the middle of a chemical attack in Syria. Another youtuber claims it's apparently like watching a liveleak video.

I don't know if i buy that since it could easily just be IW/Activision turning the gears of the hype machine, but i'm also realllly morbidly curious to see how much they want to push the envelope.

 

[John Price]

Noticed this mentioned while watching an esports TV show and cross platform play sounds intriguing

 

[JaegerDice]

I vehemently disagree that MW3 and to a lesser extent WWII were stinkers. Advanced Warfare.. I couldn't agree more.

Ya’ll are nuts.

Advanced Warfare was the last COD that actually tried something daring and succeeded. Every other COD since has tried something and failed the execution (Black Ops, Infinite Warfare) or tried nothing and succeeded in executing it (WW2). AW was the last COD actually worth playing.

Granted, Advanced Warfare was blown out of the water by TitanFall in terms of raw quality, but it was still a solid game. Your game isnt trash just because somebody else did something similar, better.

MW3 was fine. It wasnt really Sledgehammer’s game. They picked up the ball when the Respawn guys peaced out, and shared development duty with Treyarch and Raven in an almost even split. They did well enough given the situation.

The truth is, the state of COD is less an indictment of the developers than it is the fandom. Several COD devs have at least had the balls to evolve the formula, its the trash fanbase than tantrums every time a new game deviates too far from a 2009 design doc.

The only interesting thing about this new COD is crossplay, simply for the ripple effects it could have through the industry.

 

[Leafs at Knight]

AW was awful. There hasn't been a legit good CoD game since Black Ops 2 in 2012; Black Ops 3 was okay.

 

[kingsboy11]

Ghost was the worst game I've ever played. AW was fun for the first few months then got annoying. IW sucked. BO3 was okay. I actually liked WWII and it was the most fun I've had playing COD in a while. BO4 was okay.

 

[Commander Clueless]

I remember strongly disliking MW3, but I think a lot of that had to do with severe latency issues at launch. Also, I remember disliking most of the maps.

 

[x Tame Impala]

The franchise is in a weird spot right now, maybe COD became a victim of its own success. They rattled off: COD4, WaW, MW1, MW2, BO1 every year from 2007 to 2010 and they were all (IMO objectively) very good games. The bar was set as high as a FPS game could be set and they reached it every single time which built a lot of consumer reliability. Then this decade (post Black Ops 1) they entered this weird stage where the games have IMO gotten worse but the sales kept going up and up and up. MW3 is the best selling COD game ever, BO2 is 3rd, Ghosts is 5th. The sales were great but it looks like it masked a lot of the problems with the franchise and has gotten us to where we are now.

This is all relative since were talking about hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue for most of these games, but sales have been trending downwards for a while now. They put themselves in a position where they tried to get back to their roots (WW2) and it didn't sell nearly as well as they wanted to. The MW1 remaster was nowhere near the success that they wanted it to be (and for very good reason), Infinite Warfare and BO4 gave them their worst sales #'s since 2006.

Call of Duty sales: all time unit sales 2019 | Statista

I think they're scrambling right now and it's making them cater to a nostalgia trip with this new game. It's not a bad move. Watching the trailer even I was like "Oh shit it's Price with his cigar!". They just don't seem to realize (and neither does 343 FWIW) that it isn't nostalgia that makes us want to play COD, its that the games were objectively so freaking great back then and the quality has slipped so much that people aren't as interested anymore. If this new game plays as well as my favorites from 2007 to 2010 did then i'll absolutely buy it. It just has to be done the right way. If it's a hallow nostalgia-based cash grab then GTFO

 

[Gardner McKay]

Ya’ll are nuts.

Advanced Warfare was the last COD that actually tried something daring and succeeded. Every other COD since has tried something and failed the execution (Black Ops, Infinite Warfare) or tried nothing and succeeded in executing it (WW2). AW was the last COD actually worth playing.

Granted, Advanced Warfare was blown out of the water by TitanFall in terms of raw quality, but it was still a solid game. Your game isnt trash just because somebody else did something similar, better.

MW3 was fine. It wasnt really Sledgehammer’s game. They picked up the ball when the Respawn guys peaced out, and shared development duty with Treyarch and Raven in an almost even split. They did well enough given the situation.

The truth is, the state of COD is less an indictment of the developers than it is the fandom. Several COD devs have at least had the balls to evolve the formula, its the trash fanbase than tantrums every time a new game deviates too far from a 2009 design doc.

The only interesting thing about this new COD is crossplay, simply for the ripple effects it could have through the industry.

I will 100% disagree that AW succeeded at anything. Also, I am not sure why developers automatically get credit for trying something new.

Who are you to say they aren't allow to like an existing formula? I've never understood this in about the gaming industry. If a vast majority of fans like the formula and it was a successful formula, why are they not allowed to be upset when the game drastically deviates from that formula and why are they trash?

 

[tacogeoff]

I will 100% disagree that AW succeeded at anything. Also, I am not sure why developers automatically get credit for trying something new.

Who are you to say they aren't allow to like an existing formula? I've never understood this in about the gaming industry. If a vast majority of fans like the formula and it was a successful formula, why are they not allowed to be upset when the game drastically deviates from that formula and why are they trash?

I will go further and say that other than Ghosts, AW is probably one of the worst FPS I have personally played. ............but that is just my opinion and opinions are like .............. everyone has one lol

 

[x Tame Impala]

I've never understood this in about the gaming industry. If a vast majority of fans like the formula and it was a successful formula, why are they not allowed to be upset when the game drastically deviates from that formula and why are they trash?

Totally agree. If you’re going to change what works, it better be great. AW wasn’t

 

[JaegerDice]

I will 100% disagree that AW succeeded at anything. Also, I am not sure why developers automatically get credit for trying something new.

Who are you to say they aren't allow to like an existing formula? I've never understood this in about the gaming industry. If a vast majority of fans like the formula and it was a successful formula, why are they not allowed to be upset when the game drastically deviates from that formula and why are they trash?

The short answer is, because it's horribly boring.

And that's just for consumers like me. For the poor ****s who would be tasked with essentially remaking the same damn game over and over and over and over and over and over (were it certain fans had their way) it's soul-crushingly boring.

Any fanbase (or subset thereof) that demands the property they love remain stagnant on account of an unwillingness to adapt is a trash fanbase IMO. Good fanbases want their favorite properties to evolve and grow, provide new challenges and experiences.

Rest assured, there was a large contingent of the COD fanbase after COD2, that was VERY displeased about the move away from precious World War 2 to the Modern Era, not to mention the seismic shift in the multiplayer toward progressive, experience-based, skill-unlocking, carrot-on-a-stick multiplayer that COD4 ushered in. And they were bad fans too, that Infinity Ward were right to ignore, even though COD and COD2 did very well and were very well-received.

And now the people that came into COD around Modern Warfare or MW2 have become the old men yelling at clouds.

Nobody is suggesting COD should be turned into a JRPG for the sake of novelty, but when people throw tantrums because they can't adapt to faster movement, or more vertical movement, or more character-based decisions, even though 90% of the damn game feels and plays exactly the same, it's ridiculous. Apparently that 10% worth of wiggle room the developers take for themselves to try and leverage their creativity, increase the skill-gap and push the genre forward is just TOO MUCH.

There's certainly room for discussion as far as execution of the ideas. But coming up with something new and failing to stick the landing is not reason to stop trying anything new and instead scurry back to the safety of remaking a 2009 design doc, again, 10 years later. If I wanted a 10 year old game in 2019, I'd be playing Modern Warfare remastered. But I'm not (and frankly, neither is anybody else), cause I put god knows how many hours into the original, had my fun, and was ready for some additions, evolutions, adjustments and overhauls.

And finally, the idea that if something is popular once, it will remain popular if remade forever, is nonsense. If that were the case, I and every other 90s kid would still be playing with Pogs. The opposite is true. You HAVE to evolve and progress over time to keep people playing.

 

[Gardner McKay]

The short answer is, because it's horribly boring.

And that's just for consumers like me. For the poor ****s who would be tasked with essentially remaking the same damn game over and over and over and over and over and over (were it certain fans had their way) it's soul-crushingly boring.

Any fanbase (or subset thereof) that demands the property they love remain stagnant on account of an unwillingness to adapt is a trash fanbase IMO. Good fanbases want their favorite properties to evolve and grow, provide new challenges and experiences.

Rest assured, there was a large contingent of the COD fanbase after COD2, that was VERY displeased about the move away from precious World War 2 to the Modern Era, not to mention the seismic shift in the multiplayer toward progressive, experience-based, skill-unlocking, carrot-on-a-stick multiplayer that COD4 ushered in. And they were bad fans too, that Infinity Ward were right to ignore, even though COD and COD2 did very well and were very well-received.

And now the people that came into COD around Modern Warfare or MW2 have become the old men yelling at clouds.

Nobody is suggesting COD should be turned into a JRPG for the sake of novelty, but when people throw tantrums because they can't adapt to faster movement, or more vertical movement, or more character-based decisions, even though 90% of the damn game feels and plays exactly the same, it's ridiculous. Apparently that 10% worth of wiggle room the developers take for themselves to try and leverage their creativity, increase the skill-gap and push the genre forward is just TOO MUCH.

There's certainly room for discussion as far as execution of the ideas. But coming up with something new and failing to stick the landing is not reason to stop trying anything new and instead scurry back to the safety of remaking a 2009 design doc, again, 10 years later. If I wanted a 10 year old game in 2019, I'd be playing Modern Warfare remastered. But I'm not (and frankly, neither is anybody else), cause I put god knows how many hours into the original, had my fun, and was ready for some additions, evolutions, adjustments and overhauls.

And finally, the idea that if something is popular once, it will remain popular if remade forever, is nonsense. If that were the case, I and every other 90s kid would still be playing with Pogs. The opposite is true. You HAVE to evolve and progress over time to keep people playing.

Well, I see there is no point in going any further.

 

[Commander Clueless]

And finally, the idea that if something is popular once, it will remain popular if remade forever, is nonsense. If that were the case, I and every other 90s kid would still be playing with Pogs. The opposite is true. You HAVE to evolve and progress over time to keep people playing.

And conversely, the idea that you need to drastically change something people love in order to keep it going is also nonsense because, you know, you changed it into something else.

Also, when did they remake Pogs?

 

[JaegerDice]

And conversely, the idea that you need to drastically change something people love in order to keep it going is also nonsense because, you know, you changed it into something else.

Also, when did they remake Pogs?

They never remade pogs. Pogs were super popular, and they never changed, and then they disappeared because people got bored. Amazingly, just because something got popular, simply pushing the same product out there did not result in continued, sustained popularity. To the shock of nobody, new things overtook the old thing that didn't evolve or change in any way.

Not at all unlike how COD has been steadily losing ground to the likes of Overwatch, or PUBG, or Fortnite. In a shocking turn of events, the games that did something new and exciting, started taking attention and dollars away from the games that have been doing pretty much the exact same thing since 2007, with some very minor changes around the edges. Which left COD trying to play catchup and incorporate all the ideas from those new games as best they could... but obviously they were limited by the framework of the franchise, and the hissy fits of the fanbase.

The smartest play would be to do what made COD a juggernaut in the first place. Ignore the trends of the present, ignore the cries of the established fanbase, and build something that's ahead of the curve instead of riding just behind it. But they can't, cause lord knows if they do, there will be whining. Such loud, persistent whining.

 

[Commander Clueless]

They never remade pogs. Pogs were super popular, and they never changed, and then they disappeared because people got bored. Amazingly, just because something got popular, simply pushing the same product out there did not result in continued, sustained popularity. To the shock of nobody, new things overtook the old thing that didn't evolve or change in any way.

Not at all unlike how COD has been steadily losing ground to the likes of Overwatch, or PUBG, or Fortnite. In a shocking turn of events, the games that did something new and exciting, started taking attention and dollars away from the games that have been doing pretty much the exact same thing since 2007, with some very minor changes around the edges. Which left COD trying to play catchup and incorporate all the ideas from those new games as best they could... but obviously they were limited by the framework of the franchise, and the hissy fits of the fanbase.

The smartest play would be to do what made COD a juggernaut in the first place. Ignore the trends of the present, ignore the cries of the established fanbase, and build something that's ahead of the curve instead of riding just behind it. But they can't, cause lord knows if they do, there will be whining. Such loud, persistent whining.

I think they call that consumer feedback.

If they are willing to gamble losing the interest of existing fans in exchange for attracting new ones, that's their prerogative. It seems their attempts to do so thus far have had less than desirable results....at least, judging by their recent decisions and reports about not meeting expectations.

 

[JaegerDice]

I think they call that consumer feedback.

If they are willing to gamble losing the interest of existing fans in exchange for attracting new ones, that's their prerogative. It seems their attempts to do so thus far have had less than desirable results....at least, judging by their recent decisions and reports about not meeting expectations.

Of course. Because they’re starting behind the 8-ball.

If they had done in recent years what they did with COD4 in 2007 (or 2005, when the actual decision was made), and pushed ahead of the curve rather than servicing established fans with what amounts to incrimental annual updates, they’d be in a much better spot.

But they didnt. They spent the better part of the last decade servicing (or milking, depending on your view) established fans rather than trying to once again set the paradigm for fps moving forward.

Ultimately that paradigm was set for them, by competitors, and now they are playing catchup.

This isnt surprising. By their own account, the former Infinity War heads (and now current and former Respawn heads) essentially had to beg and badger Activision to let them make COD4 instead of another WW2 COD. So Activision pushing for a return to more of the same is unsurprising. Catering to the established audience is always the easiest decision and rarely the best.

 

[tacogeoff]

The short answer is, because it's horribly boring.

And that's just for consumers like me. For the poor ****s who would be tasked with essentially remaking the same damn game over and over and over and over and over and over (were it certain fans had their way) it's soul-crushingly boring.

Any fanbase (or subset thereof) that demands the property they love remain stagnant on account of an unwillingness to adapt is a trash fanbase IMO. Good fanbases want their favorite properties to evolve and grow, provide new challenges and experiences.

Rest assured, there was a large contingent of the COD fanbase after COD2, that was VERY displeased about the move away from precious World War 2 to the Modern Era, not to mention the seismic shift in the multiplayer toward progressive, experience-based, skill-unlocking, carrot-on-a-stick multiplayer that COD4 ushered in. And they were bad fans too, that Infinity Ward were right to ignore, even though COD and COD2 did very well and were very well-received.

And now the people that came into COD around Modern Warfare or MW2 have become the old men yelling at clouds.

Nobody is suggesting COD should be turned into a JRPG for the sake of novelty, but when people throw tantrums because they can't adapt to faster movement, or more vertical movement, or more character-based decisions, even though 90% of the damn game feels and plays exactly the same, it's ridiculous. Apparently that 10% worth of wiggle room the developers take for themselves to try and leverage their creativity, increase the skill-gap and push the genre forward is just TOO MUCH.

There's certainly room for discussion as far as execution of the ideas. But coming up with something new and failing to stick the landing is not reason to stop trying anything new and instead scurry back to the safety of remaking a 2009 design doc, again, 10 years later. If I wanted a 10 year old game in 2019, I'd be playing Modern Warfare remastered. But I'm not (and frankly, neither is anybody else), cause I put god knows how many hours into the original, had my fun, and was ready for some additions, evolutions, adjustments and overhauls.

And finally, the idea that if something is popular once, it will remain popular if remade forever, is nonsense. If that were the case, I and every other 90s kid would still be playing with Pogs. The opposite is true. You HAVE to evolve and progress over time to keep people playing.

I didn't hear of anyone throwing tantrums. I heard a lot of people that pretty much said they didn't like where they went with it and dropped the game and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I was one of them, I moved on to Destiny which does what AW tried to do in terms of combat but much better.

Like you said though they needed to progress and try to beat the curve but AW was not it. Hopefully they can find their niche at some point but I'm on the fence about their newest rehash.

 

[Commander Clueless]

Of course. Because they’re starting behind the 8-ball.

If they had done in recent years what they did with COD4 in 2007 (or 2005, when the actual decision was made), and pushed ahead of the curve rather than servicing established fans with what amounts to incrimental annual updates, they’d be in a much better spot.

But they didnt. They spent the better part of the last decade servicing (or milking, depending on your view) established fans rather than trying to once again set the paradigm for fps moving forward.

Ultimately that paradigm was set for them, by competitors, and now they are playing catchup.

This isnt surprising. By their own account, the former Infinity War heads (and now current and former Respawn heads) essentially had to beg and badger Activision to let them make COD4 instead of another WW2 COD. So Activision pushing for a return to more of the same is unsurprising. Catering to the established audience is always the easiest decision and rarely the best.

I don't think the problem is catering to fans, I think the problem is they didn't make games good enough to make people want to play the new stuff rather than cling to the old stuff.

Fans want a good game first and foremost.

 

[GreytWun]

My issue with COD games is they littered it with gimmicky kill streaks (robots, RC cars, drones) and they made a bunch of killstreaks which just encourages people to camp. The COD 4 format worked the best: UAV, Airstrike, Chopper. That's it. I can't even play team deathmatch or kill confirmed on the newer games because of the camping kids trying to get killstreaks hiding in corners.

 

[MAHJ71]

My issue with COD games is they littered it with gimmicky kill streaks (robots, RC cars, drones) and they made a bunch of killstreaks which just encourages people to camp. The COD 4 format worked the best: UAV, Airstrike, Chopper. That's it. I can't even play team deathmatch or kill confirmed on the newer games because of the camping kids trying to get killstreaks hiding in corners.

I'd be cool with them reverting back to that kill streak system

 

[Leafs at Knight]

I'd be cool with them reverting back to that kill streak system

I don't think the vast majority would be too happy.