C Joseph Veleno - Saint John Sea Dogs, QMJHL (2018, 30th, DET)

[Semaj49]

I think Hischier is a better comparison for young Patrice Bergeron.

Veleno is more like a Joe Thornton, but obviously nowhere near as good. Style-wise though he's a set-up guy who can play the rest of the game average or better.

Maybe a more gifted Zajac?

Style wise, he is really similar to Kuznetsov from what i'va seen.

 

[Redder Winger]

But he skates well. is a set up man, predominantly, has a strong defensive game and considered a leader.

Does he have the ability to slow the play down?

 

[JK2K]

I really like veleno. ExceptionL status was a mistake but he is skilled.
One area of concern is 27 of 48 assists are on the pp.
Would like to see more 5 on 5 production.

 

[Frk It]

Maybe Derrick Brassard is a decent comp?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Maybe Derrick Brassard is a decent comp?

Not defensively

 

[goonybird]

Style wise, he is really similar to Kuznetsov from what i'va seen.

Ya that might be a better comparison.

 

[MarAlain MongYeo]

Could Veleno be one of those players who makes an NHL roster right after he is drafted, or does he need more development?

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

Could Veleno be one of those players who makes an NHL roster right after he is drafted, or does he need more development?

I would not be completely shocked to see him get a few games, he can already play in all zones and is an excellent skater. Ultimately he should be back in junior, play for Canada, and really dominate the Q and improve his strength and shot.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

If this dude is still around in the mid teens I would LOVEEEEEEEEEE for the Wings to trade two of our picks in the 25-37 region to move up. Maybe even a bit more

 

[le_sean]

I think Hischier is a better comparison for young Patrice Bergeron.

Veleno is more like a Joe Thornton, but obviously nowhere near as good. Style-wise though he's a set-up guy who can play the rest of the game average or better.

Maybe a more gifted Zajac?

He’s more like Andrew Cogliano. A solid NHL player, yes, but not a 10th overall pick.

 

[schnapshot]

He’s more like Andrew Cogliano. A solid NHL player, yes, but not a 10th overall pick.

He is definitely not. You’re way underselling him.

 

[le_sean]

He is definitely not. You’re way underselling him.

His shot is hilariously bad. He’ll be easy to defend in higher levels because teams will just take away his passing options. Unless he fixes this, which rarely happens, he’s going to be a very good 3C. I expect more from a high pick.

 

[TimeZone]

He’s more like Andrew Cogliano. A solid NHL player, yes, but not a 10th overall pick.

He's definitely got more upside than that. He's got pretty good vision, and has shown the ability to slow the play down as well in the two live games I've seen of him this Season. His shot is definitely underwhelming though, for sure.

He has a good shot at being a solid #2 C for years to come, imo.

 

[schnapshot]

His shot is hilariously bad. He’ll be easy to defend in higher levels because teams will just take away his passing options. Unless he fixes this, which rarely happens, he’s going to be a very good 3C. I expect more from a high pick.

1. His shot is not "hilariously bad", I have seen most of his goals this year and he can definitely snipe even though he isn't known as a sniper
2. Fixing shooting rarely happens? There are shooting coaches you easily can hire if you're a pro. This is literally one of the easiest things to fix (a lot more than hockey IQ or on-ice vision which Joe has plenty of)
3. Shoehorning a prospect not even drafted as a 3C because he has one weakness that is easily fixable is idiotic
4. Get over that obsession, he has a lot other things to offer. More players with average shots and good skating succeed over players with good shots but no skating (MDC is a good example)

Guess who also have a peewee shots and are successful in the NHL? Mitch Marner, Plekanec, JVR, Mikko Koivu, Alex Wennberg, Max Domi, Jake Voracek, Kadri, the Sedins, the list goes on...

 

[le_sean]

1. His shot is not "hilariously bad", I have seen most of his goals this year and he can definitely snipe even though he isn't known as a sniper
2. Fixing shooting rarely happens? There are shooting coaches you easily can hire if you're a pro. This is literally one of the easiest things to fix (a lot more than hockey IQ or on-ice vision which Joe has plenty of)
3. Shoehorning a prospect not even drafted as a 3C because he has one weakness that is easily fixable is idiotic
4. Get over that obsession, he has a lot other things to offer. More players with average shots and good skating succeed over players with good shots but no skating (MDC is a good example)

Guess who also has a peewee shot and is successful in the NHL? Mitch Marner

No his shot is bad. He only scores in close. He hasn’t shown the ability to wire it top corner, at least never consistently. He barely beats Q goalies clean.

Give me an example of a player whose shot went from bad in Juniors to good in the NHL. Happened maybe a handful of times. A shooting coach can’t cure a bad shot.

I’m not shoehorning. He’ll be a good NHL player. He might even be a 2nd line centre, but an average one. There’s nothing that’s “wow” about him.

Mitch Marner was 2nd in the OHL in scoring his draft year and 1st in his D+1 year. Veleno is 14th. I don’t know how you can compare the two.

 

[schnapshot]

A shooting coach can’t cure a bad shot.

That's what they're used for, yes. That's like saying a skating coach can't improve skating.

No his shot is bad. He only scores in close. He hasn’t shown the ability to wire it top corner, at least never consistently. He barely beats Q goalies clean.

He does. Just look at his highlights:


0:15, 0:24, 1:55, 4:08, 4:28, 5:29, 6:46, 7:18

That's 8 goals out of his 18 where he's beaten a goalie clean this season.

I’m not shoehorning. He’ll be a good NHL player. He might even be a 2nd line centre, but an average one. There’s nothing that’s “wow” about him..

Comparing him to Cogliano is definitely shoehorning. The only thing they have in common is good skating.

Mitch Marner was 2nd in the OHL in scoring his draft year and 1st in his D+1 year. Veleno is 14th. I don’t know how you can compare the two.

Marner rarely beat goalies clean too. He was much more of a playmaker and dangler, in addition to being a winger so much less defensive responsabilities. He still scores in the NHL with his average shot, just doesn’t beat goalies clean very often...

 

[goonybird]

Don't see how he compares to Cogliano. Veleno might only put up mid-tier numbers for all we know, but it won't be by playing similarly to Cogliano.

 

[Tim Wallach]

Give me an example of a player whose shot went from bad in Juniors to good in the NHL.

Brendan Shanahan is the best example ever. Shot was so poor early in junior that some NHL teams wanted nothing to do with him. Quickly developed one of the more lethal shots in the game.

I'm with schnapshot, in that of all the things I have to fix in my prospects, I'm happy if shot is the main one. It is the easiest to teach and improve.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

He plays more like Ryan Nugent Hopkins. Very silky with the puck and amazing skater with good on ice vision. Quite reliable defensively but not that great. Not a great shot and a perimeter player.

He could turn out better but I have him as an above average 2nd line/good 3rd line center in the pro.

 

[le_sean]

Brendan Shanahan is the best example ever. Shot was so poor early in junior that some NHL teams wanted nothing to do with him. Quickly developed one of the more lethal shots in the game.

I'm with schnapshot, in that of all the things I have to fix in my prospects, I'm happy if shot is the main one. It is the easiest to teach and improve.

Yes some NHL teams wanted nothing to do with him so he was only taken 2nd overall.

His shot was never bad, he talks about how he had more time and space in the OHL so he could get off the perfect shot. But in the NHL he had to work on the quickness of release. I don’t think that’s the same thing.

 

[Tim Wallach]

Yes some NHL teams wanted nothing to do with him so he was only taken 2nd overall.

His shot was never bad, he talks about how he had more time and space in the OHL so he could get off the perfect shot. But in the NHL he had to work on the quickness of release. I don’t think that’s the same thing.

Obviously I meant nothing to do with taking him that high. Clearly he was going relatively high. But if you think teams didn't think his shot was poor, that would be incorrect.

 

[le_sean]

Obviously I meant nothing to do with taking him that high. Clearly he was going relatively high. But if you think teams didn't think his shot was poor, that would be incorrect.

Well thanks for the clarification, I didn’t know that about Shanny.

 

[schnapshot]

Anyway, when you have to point out a prospect’s shot as his biggest flaw for teams not to draft him, you know he’s pretty good everywhere else.

 

[Tim Wallach]

Well thanks for the clarification, I didn’t know that about Shanny.

If I recall correctly, it was partly about when he first reported to the OHL. I believe his own coach was shocked at how poor his shot was for such a high pick.

You are right though that a lot of players don't improve theirs much, but I still think it's one of the easier skills to improve. I remember my own playing days, working countless hours with technical coaches on skating only to gain half a stride over the length of the ice. But my shot came leaps and bounds in just a couple sessions.

 

[schnapshot]

You are right though that a lot of players don't improve theirs much, but I still think it's one of the easier skills to improve. I remember my own playing days, working countless hours with technical coaches on skating only to gain half a stride over the length of the ice. But my shot came leaps and bounds in just a couple sessions.

Same happened to me. It’s all a matter of technique, and it’s much, much more easier to teach than vision or awareness, which Veleno oozes of. He’s also on a 27-goal pace with Drummondville, really not as bad as some make it to be.