C Jay O'Brien - Toronto Marlies, AHL (2018, 19th, PHI released)

[JRichard]

The thing with flyers is prospects is there don't scream top 100 players. Brink looks like he could have a nice nhl career. Probably more middle 6 than top line But who wouldn't take a rd 2 pick and get middle six player

Andrae always compared to Kimmo Timonen but Kimmo's hockey instincts were off the charts. Skills are there.

Destroyers bottom 6 projection. at round 5 take that all day.

Wisdom another bottom 6 projection guy.

Fedotov if he comes over look like legit g prospect, But who knows where usa/Russia relations will be this year.

I see nothing in Wisdom who got special treatment (affirmative action stuff i guess) from the start.

This fan base is hard on its prospects. Sure been burned many times before but Mtl believe they have a top 3 prospect pool loaded with 5’7-5’9 untouchables like Farrel, Hutson, Mesar, Mysak on top of Caufield, Gallagher.

i like the fact prospects are not rushed in. Would not be surprised if Gauthier ends up better player than Slafkovsky. Andrae vs Hutson, Brink vs Farrell, Foerster vs Heineman, Desnoyers vs Pinard, York vs Guhle have close to same pedigrees.
Not top 3 prospect pool but there are way worse (Think Pit-Wsh)

goalies Ersson, Fedotov, Kolosov are pretty nice trio of older prospects on top of young starter.

 

[FlyguyOX]

I see nothing in Wisdom who got special treatment (affirmative action stuff i guess) from the start.

This fan base is hard on its prospects. Sure been burned many times before but Mtl believe they have a top 3 prospect pool loaded with 5’7-5’9 untouchables like Farrel, Hutson, Mesar, Mysak on top of Caufield, Gallagher.

i like the fact prospects are not rushed in. Would not be surprised if Gauthier ends up better player than Slafkovsky. Andrae vs Hutson, Brink vs Farrell, Foerster vs Heineman, Desnoyers vs Pinard, York vs Guhle have close to same pedigrees.
Not top 3 prospect pool but there are way worse (Think Pit-Wsh)

goalies Ersson, Fedotov, Kolosov are pretty nice trio of older prospects on top of young starter.

Yeah, I'm never getting hyped for a flyers prospect ever again. They're a bust until I see otherwise honestly.

From trading down TWICE and passing over Caufield and Boldy in the process to pick York, to the Jay O'Brien pick where we passed over K'Andre Miller, Berggren, Sandin, to Isaac Ratcliffe being a traffic cone, to Frost still being a borderline middle six C at best, to Nolan Patrick being a vegetable, to Farabee forgetting how to play hockey, Pure misery.

That's why I also see how MTL fans sound eerily similar to flyers fans from years ago thinking of all our mid prospects that some would turn into top of the lineup players. NOPE.

 

[WarriorofTime]

You really can’t be serious, can you? A coach with an abrasive personality, who after being hired has a shelf like of 3-4 years at the most before his players mutiny against him, as opposed to a generational superstar destined to change the course of your franchise, and who will play at least 90% of his career with the team fortunate enough to draft him? In addition, making a judgement about this wretched roster after one game versus a team having a historical season which can be construed as their “Stanley Cup?” I know you’re a fan, but take off the orange and black colored glasses.

Torts zealots are a bizarre bunch. That cup 20 years from now bought him complete and total lifetime supply of goodwill despite all evidence to the contrary since then. It’d be like if there were people that still thought Brian Burke was the greatest hockey executive of all time.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Torts zealots are a bizarre bunch. That cup 20 years from now bought him complete and total lifetime supply of goodwill despite all evidence to the contrary since then. It’d be like if there were people that still thought Brian Burke was the greatest hockey executive of all time.

There's only a couple coaches that DON'T have a 3-4 year shelf life. That is not indicative of Torts or his ability/personality.

The team has been night and day from last year to this year. "Playing the right way" is cliche, yes, but it definitely helps a team play better when players do it and are held accountable when they don't.

Torts shouldn't have been hired as we needed to tank, but to say he's not a good coach and doesn't improve/develop players is silly. He coached a CBJ team that swept a record-breaking lightning team. He created a Rover D-man position for Werenski so he'd thrive and he's encouraging similar of York now.

He's a good coach.

 

[WarriorofTime]

There's only a couple coaches that DON'T have a 3-4 year shelf life. That is not indicative of Torts or his ability/personality.

The team has been night and day from last year to this year. "Playing the right way" is cliche, yes, but it definitely helps a team play better when players do it and are held accountable when they don't.

Torts shouldn't have been hired as we needed to tank, but to say he's not a good coach and doesn't improve/develop players is silly. He coached a CBJ team that swept a record-breaking lightning team. He created a Rover D-man position for Werenski so he'd thrive and he's encouraging similar of York now.

He's a good coach.

Torts is a great coach to get an 8th place team in the division to finish in 7th place, which probably isn't what the Flyers need. At the end of the day, they're a team in 7th to last that probably should be in the bottom 3 of the NHL. The previous poster's assertion that he is more important to a rebuild than any gamebreaking talent is silly. Torts will certainly not be the Flyers coach the next time they have something that resembles a contender.

 

[Craft Beer Lover]

There's only a couple coaches that DON'T have a 3-4 year shelf life. That is not indicative of Torts or his ability/personality.

The team has been night and day from last year to this year. "Playing the right way" is cliche, yes, but it definitely helps a team play better when players do it and are held accountable when they don't.

Torts shouldn't have been hired as we needed to tank, but to say he's not a good coach and doesn't improve/develop players is silly. He coached a CBJ team that swept a record-breaking lightning team. He created a Rover D-man position for Werenski so he'd thrive and he's encouraging similar of York now.

He's a good coach.

First of all, York sure as hell is not Werenski. Secondly, yes, he SHOULD NOT have been hired this season, because the team should have given themselves the best opportunity to draft the generational Bedard. Two years from now the players will mutiny against him, he’ll be fired for a “players’ coach,” and the
Flyers will still be wallowing in mediocrity, but without a franchise superstar. Nice job, Flyer organization!

 

[Craft Beer Lover]

Yeah, I'm never getting hyped for a flyers prospect ever again. They're a bust until I see otherwise honestly.

From trading down TWICE and passing over Caufield and Boldy in the process to pick York, to the Jay O'Brien pick where we passed over K'Andre Miller, Berggren, Sandin, to Isaac Ratcliffe being a traffic cone, to Frost still being a borderline middle six C at best, to Nolan Patrick being a vegetable, to Farabee forgetting how to play hockey, Pure misery.

That's why I also see how MTL fans sound eerily similar to flyers fans from years ago thinking of all our mid prospects that some would turn into top of the lineup players. NOPE.

Most of those horrific draft picks that you list above were made by the execrable Ron Hextall, who is about to be fired from his second stint as GM. The other GM Fletcher could be the worst ever in the history of professional sports.

 

[Gospel of Prospal]

Highly-touted/once highly-touted Massachusetts kid who went to BU/BC?


Welcome to New York City

 

[Brodeur]

Highly-touted/once highly-touted Massachusetts kid who went to BU/BC?


Welcome to New York City

I think they mentioned on the draft broadcast that the Rangers were one of the teams interested in O'Brien; Rangers had picks #26 and #28 at the time.

I'll still bet a beer on Pittsburgh assuming Hextall/Prior are still there.

 

[dats81]

Mark Friedman, Jack St.Ivany ... of course Hextall will go after O'Brien. He is just as clueless and lazy as Chuck Fletcher. They are cast in the same mold.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

What happened to this player? Bad development?

 

[MichaelFarrell]

What happened to this player? Bad development?

He was a complete reach at 19th overall.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

bad evaluation.

You can't bet on a prep school player just on skating quality.

From draft +1, his true level asserted itself. He was never in the race.

 

[BondraTime]

He was a complete reach at 19th overall.

Wasn't a huge reach, went ~10 spots ahead of where he was expected. See that multiple times every draft.

It was a very bad evaluation of an older guy against prep school kids

 

[Brodeur]

What happened to this player? Bad development?

Drafted out of a lower league, maybe just wasn't as good as the Flyers had hoped. Most rankings had him in the 30-40 range but it sounded like there was at least another team lurking in the 20s aiming to take O'Brien.

Definitely a peculiar post-draft path. O'Brien wasn't the first guy to struggle as an NCAA freshman. We had seen other guys like A.J. Greer and Kieffer Bellows leave after their freshmen years and play in the CHL. But O'Brien wanted to retain his college eligibility which led him to spend a year in the BCHL before transferring.

I recall reading that he had committed to Providence when he was 15. I had picked my college when I was 16 and I definitely remember having second thoughts during my freshman year, so I could understand (to some degree) why he decided to transfer. Not sure if things would have turned out differently had the NCAA allowed him to transfer immediately.

 

[William H Bonney]

A few things:

The Flyers bet on the exciting glimpses he showed pre-draft. Those have proven to be mirages.

It's hard to evaluate players. It's especially hard to do when they play in lower leagues.

Providence was not a good fit. I don't think you can blame Providence as it's not like O'Brien has been able to really turn things around after leaving. But Providence doesn't really play the style to realize those early glimpses if there was even a chance.

 

[bigdog16]

I see nothing in Wisdom who got special treatment (affirmative action stuff i guess) from the start.

This fan base is hard on its prospects. Sure been burned many times before but Mtl believe they have a top 3 prospect pool loaded with 5’7-5’9 untouchables like Farrel, Hutson, Mesar, Mysak on top of Caufield, Gallagher.

i like the fact prospects are not rushed in. Would not be surprised if Gauthier ends up better player than Slafkovsky. Andrae vs Hutson, Brink vs Farrell, Foerster vs Heineman, Desnoyers vs Pinard, York vs Guhle have close to same pedigrees.
Not top 3 prospect pool but there are way worse (Think Pit-Wsh)

goalies Ersson, Fedotov, Kolosov are pretty nice trio of older prospects on top of young starter.

Awfully misleading. None of Farrell, Hutson, Mesar, Mysak are under 5'9. Actually two of them are greater than 5'9 and the other two are listed at 5'9.

Wasn't a huge reach, went ~10 spots ahead of where he was expected. See that multiple times every draft.

It was a very bad evaluation of an older guy against prep school kids

Landscape is changing, prep hockey is not what it was 10-15 years ago. At this point its on par with what Junior B hockey used to be. Its not good

 

[IWillMakeTheNHL]

A few things:

The Flyers bet on the exciting glimpses he showed pre-draft. Those have proven to be mirages.

It's hard to evaluate players. It's especially hard to do when they play in lower leagues.

Providence was not a good fit. I don't think you can blame Providence as it's not like O'Brien has been able to really turn things around after leaving. But Providence doesn't really play the style to realize those early glimpses if there was even a chance.

I mean he has been near a ppg the last 3 seasons after really struggling at Providence so id say he has turned it around

 

[BondraTime]

I mean he has been near a ppg the last 3 seasons after really struggling at Providence so id say he has turned it around

Well, yeah, he was 21, 22 and 23, with an added full season in the BCHL, compared to 19 with no experience.

The seasons he put up from 20-23 weren’t really turning it around as an NHL prospect, they were turning into a pretty good Junior A and NCAA player as one of the older guys.

 

[William H Bonney]

I mean he has been near a ppg the last 3 seasons after really struggling at Providence so id say he has turned it around

Not really, his production just jumped because he's much older.

What @BondraTime said.

 

[mr figgles]

As a Flyers fan, I can’t really hate the pick. They had two picks there close together and they got the safe pick in Farabee, then swung for the fences with with this one, because there was a lot of buzz around him. Drafting isn’t an exact science. Players bust.

 

[WarriorofTime]

He was a project, as most prep school kids tend to be. He did turn into a good college player at BU, but as mentioned, he did an overage (aged 20) Junior season in the BCHL so he was pretty old by the time he got there, after flaming out of Providence.

I do think he is going to get signed to an NHL Contract now that he is a Free Agent, and does have a chance to be an NHL player.

It was of course a bad draft pick, but it's not like there were tons of great options in that draft vicinity as it turned out. The next 9 picks were Rasmus Kupari, Ryan Merkely, K'Andre Miller, Isaac Lundestrom, Filip Johansen, Dominik Bokk, Jacob Bernard-Docker and Nils Lundkvist. There's like 1 good player in that mix.

2018 is looking more and more like a Draft that had a strong Top-14 and then a pretty dramatic fall off after, as there isn't a ton of late pick sleepers emerging at the moment (of course those picks tend to take longer, so I'm sure there will be some at the end of the day, but there's a pretty dramatic separation right now between the top picks and everyone else).

 

[bigdog16]

He was a project, as most prep school kids tend to be. He did turn into a good college player at BU, but as mentioned, he did an overage (aged 20) Junior season in the BCHL so he was pretty old by the time he got there, after flaming out of Providence.

I do think he is going to get signed to an NHL Contract now that he is a Free Agent, and does have a chance to be an NHL player.

It was of course a bad draft pick, but it's not like there were tons of great options in that draft vicinity as it turned out. The next 9 picks were Rasmus Kupari, Ryan Merkely, K'Andre Miller, Isaac Lundestrom, Filip Johansen, Dominik Bokk, Jacob Bernard-Docker and Nils Lundkvist. There's like 1 good player in that mix.

2018 is looking more and more like a Draft that had a strong Top-14 and then a pretty dramatic fall off after, as there isn't a ton of late pick sleepers emerging at the moment (of course those picks tend to take longer, so I'm sure there will be some at the end of the day, but there's a pretty dramatic separation right now between the top picks and everyone else).

All of those players are significantly better and have more value than Jay OBrien. Other than maybe Ryan Merkely all those other players blow him out of the water. OBrien is really nothing more than a depth AHL guy at best

 

[WarriorofTime]

All of those players are significantly better and have more value than Jay OBrien. Other than maybe Ryan Merkely all those other players blow him out of the water. OBrien is really nothing more than a depth AHL guy at best

That's fine, I don't necessarily disagree and agree it's a bad pick, but my point is that it's not like the Flyers missed out on a bunch of big time players taking a project that didn't really pan out.

 

[FlyguyOX]

As a Flyers fan, I can’t really hate the pick. They had two picks there close together and they got the safe pick in Farabee, then swung for the fences with with this one, because there was a lot of buzz around him. Drafting isn’t an exact science. Players bust.

Yo the pick was universally hated at the time. Especially with everyone screaming for Miller.

Just happy we get a 2nd out of this