BB88
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C Jack Hughes - USNTDP (2019 Draft) Part II
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AmericanDream
Thank you Elon!
Blade Paradigm
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It's not so much a matter of two-way play as it is competent defensive reads.
Just as important, though, are the examples of Hughes' lack of forechecking -- a key reason for his ineffectiveness at even strength during the entire tournament.
It is a big deal when a player with his degree of skill and speed can not be a threat or dictate the pace of play at even strength against U20 competition. This suggests that he doesn't process the game quickly enough against this level of opponent -- that's fine if he has average hockey IQ, but players with high-end hockey IQ can outsmart their opponent.
Nico Hischier was a more dangerous player at the U20 World Juniors due to his ability to process the game and assess the amount of space that he had. He was so much more in control every time he had the puck. That's hockey IQ.
Those are details that matter, and your dismissive expression towards them shows a lack of nuance in your evaluation process.
Hockey IQ will always be the limiting factor, regardless of how much skill one has.
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BB88
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Everybody always says C's have more responsibility, so the demand will be higher.
Let's say Hughes goes to Atlantic, he has Bergeron/Matthews/Eichel/Barkov/Point to match up against.
AmericanDream
Thank you Elon!
sure they do, but did that stop Gretzky?? or Lemieux? how about Lafontaine?? young Modano?? Oates?? Mackinnon and McDavid are hardly stalwarts defensively..many, many, many top centers were not good away from the puck..
defense and learning how to play a two-way game is the easiest thing you can teach a player, up to them to want to utilize it...but you can't teach vision, hands, speed, etc..
imagine seeing videos like this of a 17 year old #99...I would laugh my ass off to see the same false narrative spreaders here commenting then about what would become the greatest player ever....and oh yeah he didn't play defense period lol...
point is, many of us get he isn't a Bergeron out there, but it isn't his game yet...he has plenty of time to work into that just like Modano did..
certain posters just want to keep this nonsense up since their boy got outplayed yet again by lil Jack Hughes...
BernieParent
In misery of redwings of suckage for a long time
That's for Hughes' coach to deal with. A. Keep him on 3rd / 2nd line to get acclimatized to the NHL. B. Emphasize favourable matchups at home and as much as possible on the road. C. Give him more defensively responsible linemates to support him. Easy-peasy.
Blade Paradigm
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Does anyone want to address his lack of forechecking and sustained even strength pressure in the offensive zone?
Evan Oppenheimer's Betweenness analytics are a major topic today on /r/hockey.
Here are the 2018-19 USNTDP team's Betweenness metrics. Jack ranks third in 5-on-5 Betweeness, behind Trevor Zegras and Sean Farrell. The visual observations corroborate this weakness of Hughes' game at even strength:
Not only was he outplayed by Kaapo Kakko, but Jack was much weaker in several areas, including the most important ones: even strength offense and defensive reads. In the first example, he literally lunged at the puck carrier and took himself out of the play, giving the player he was mean to cover a clear path to the net. The overarching theme is that Jack Hughes, despite his skill and speed, does not recognize what he needs to do at this level and is limited by this lack of intuition.
He lacks the elite-level intuition, so all he has are speed and some puck skills.
I've preached this in the past: do not draft for skill over hockey IQ. The "tools but no toolbox players" are high-risk; the "tools but small toolbox" players are limited in what they can do.
Evan Oppenheimer's Betweenness analytics are a major topic today on /r/hockey.
Here are the 2018-19 USNTDP team's Betweenness metrics. Jack ranks third in 5-on-5 Betweeness, behind Trevor Zegras and Sean Farrell. The visual observations corroborate this weakness of Hughes' game at even strength:
You seem intent on portraying Hughes as infallible.
Not only was he outplayed by Kaapo Kakko, but Jack was much weaker in several areas, including the most important ones: even strength offense and defensive reads. In the first example, he literally lunged at the puck carrier and took himself out of the play, giving the player he was mean to cover a clear path to the net. The overarching theme is that Jack Hughes, despite his skill and speed, does not recognize what he needs to do at this level and is limited by this lack of intuition.
He lacks the elite-level intuition, so all he has are speed and some puck skills.
I've preached this in the past: do not draft for skill over hockey IQ. The "tools but no toolbox players" are high-risk; the "tools but small toolbox" players are limited in what they can do.
BondraTime
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Blade Paradigm
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I don't subscribe to these junior-level analytics, but I find it fascinating that none of them ever define Hughes as the best player in their measurement.
Not PNHLe, not NHLe, not Oppenheimer's metrics. There are more such measurements that feature the same result.
The analytics don't speak his Hughes' favor.
My analysis comes from visual observations: tendencies, skill set, positioning, anticipation, hockey IQ of the player. I look at the limiting factors, and Hughes has some major ones, the most important of which is his just-average hockey IQ. His hockey IQ is not high enough to be a standout at the U20 or higher levels.
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According to Arizona's record this year, you can't put too much money into analytics.
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
I agree with the consensus that is saying Jack Hughes has too many question marks in his game and on draft day he should drop all the way to where the Canucks pick.
kroypuck
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I heard all those guys met in an undisclosed rink and 9 months later Jack Hughes was born.
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Bank Shot
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I'm not sure why you are so angry about the fact that someone has a differing opinion than you.
Hughes doesn't have Kane's shot. Also, Kane's a winger. If we project Hughes as a W in NHL, the discussion would be quite different. But then he also would be just a W.
Whalers Fan
Go Habs!
After buying the arena in Plymouth, USA Hockey built a very large multi-million dollar addition on the back of the facility to house a state of the art training facility, among other things such as offices and meeting rooms. The facility was designed specifically for hockey, and contains several hockey-specific training devices, as well as all the normal workout equipment expected in a top-notch training room.
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Blade Paradigm
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There's a great 25-minute feature by Strength Coach TV about the center. He talks about the center, gives a tour, then talks to the strength and conditioning coach of the USNTDP.
Blade Paradigm
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Despite Jack's shortcomings, he is still a very quick straight-line skater, and he picks up speed quickly. He has a quick burst and moves in a way that can be compared to Nikolaj Ehlers. He also can gather a loose puck and gain control of it with his stick handling skills, not losing too much speed off the rush when he receives a pass. From a pure skill point of view, he can also land passes on his teammates' sticks accurately, although he has a tendency to force passes and handcuff teammates sometimes when he is under pressure.
From the defensive zone, he can carry the puck up the ice and bring it past the offensive blue line. Zone entries are his best contribution. However, he requires significant puck support from his teammates to maintain possession once he has entered the zone; he does not pressure the opponent along the boards well, nor does he generate dangerous scoring chances upon entry at the U20 level -- most wide rushes get pushed all the way to the corner, at which point he has no angle to attack the net off the rush. Sometimes, he tries to do too much by himself with the puck on his stick and gets stripped of it.
On the powerplay, when he has time to maneuver in the offensive zone without pressure, he doesn't force plays as much and instead tries to take his time moving along the outside to create a scoring opportunity. He has enough room to think and operate on the powerplay at the U20 level. At even strength, there's just not enough time or space; he does not control the pace.
He is quick and nifty with the puck, but falls short in other areas.
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Blade Paradigm
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I rank players based on hockey IQ, style of play, skill set, as well as the ability of the player to translate their game to the NHL.
Out of the criteria, hockey IQ is ahead of all else. Intuition dictates how well a player recognizes situations on the ice, how well they deploy their skills to be effective, and their ability to think ahead of their opposition. Hockey IQ separates average players from great ones. That said, all players with the same skill level, as long as they have at least average hockey IQ, stay in the same tier.
A player with good skill but low IQ like Owen Tippett or Max Cajkovic stays far away from other similarly-skilled players.
Hughes has average IQ but great skill. He doesn't ever fall further than #4 on my list, but currently ranks a distant #2. Despite this, I feel that he is a risky pick. At #5 is Dylan Cozens, who has high IQ but leads the next tier with less skill.
I am critical in my assessment of players as I assess their viability in the NHL. Half of the first round candidates this year lack the skill to be top-six NHL forwards; you'll see a lot of them end up as bottom-six players.
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BB88
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Why even bring up those names with him.
McDavid isn't even bad defensively, he's not Bergeron but he's not bad.
Hughes is a really small looking C with question marks, he doesn't belong on your list of other players.
For the bolded, he really didn't.
Patrik Barkov
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I still have Hughes as first but if you're talking about Kakko here this is as false as it gets. Kakko has outplayed Hughes in every possible way this season.
Blade Paradigm
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Conspiracy Theorist
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Kurri was a Selke level winger which freed Gretzky offensively and Messier also helped.
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