C Jack Hughes - USNTDP (2019 Draft) Part II

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IronMarshal

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Does anyone want to address his lack of forechecking and sustained even strength pressure in the offensive zone?

Evan Oppenheimer's Betweenness analytics are a major topic today on /r/hockey.

Here are the 2018-19 USNTDP team's Betweenness metrics. Jack ranks third in 5-on-5 Betweeness, behind Trevor Zegras and Sean Farrell. The visual observations corroborate this weakness of Hughes' game at even strength:




You seem intent on portraying Hughes as infallible.

Not only was he outplayed by Kaapo Kakko, but Jack was much weaker in several areas, including the most important ones: even strength offense and defensive reads. In the first example, he literally lunged at the puck carrier and took himself out of the play, giving the player he was mean to cover a clear path to the net. The overarching theme is that Jack Hughes, despite his skill and speed, does not recognize what he needs to do at this level and is limited by this lack of intuition.

He lacks the elite-level intuition, so all he has are speed and some puck skills.

I've preached this in the past: do not draft for skill over hockey IQ. The "tools but no toolbox players" are high-risk; the "tools but small toolbox" players are limited in what they can do.


This reply is in general to all of the anti Jack Hughes nonsense on here. There is nothing to be concerned with as he will be playing for Philly. You don't have to worry about your team drafting this awful prospect.
The Flyers will happily plug him in with Farabee and race off to win some cups
 

kroypuck

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Despite Jack's shortcomings, he is still a very quick straight-line skater, and he picks up speed quickly. He has a quick burst and moves in a way that can be compared to Nikolaj Ehlers. He also can gather a loose puck and gain control of it with his stick handling skills, not losing too much speed off the rush when he receives a pass. From a pure skill point of view, he can also land passes on his teammates' sticks accurately, although he has a tendency to force passes and handcuff teammates sometimes when he is under pressure.

From the defensive zone, he can carry the puck up the ice and bring it past the offensive blue line. Zone entries are his best contribution. However, he requires significant puck support from his teammates to maintain possession once he has entered the zone; he does not pressure the opponent along the boards well, nor does he generate dangerous scoring chances upon entry at the U20 level -- most wide rushes get pushed all the way to the corner, at which point he has no angle to attack the net off the rush. Sometimes, he tries to do too much by himself with the puck on his stick and gets stripped of it.

On the powerplay, when he has time to maneuver in the offensive zone without pressure, he doesn't force plays as much and instead tries to take his time moving along the outside to create a scoring opportunity. He has enough room to think and operate on the powerplay at the U20 level. At even strength, there's just not enough time or space; he does not control the pace.

He is quick and nifty with the puck, but falls short in other areas.

thank u
 

stampedingviking

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no, I wish someone would have done this when Patrick Kane went #1 overall - us Hawks fans could have really used warnings like this for his play away from the puck...if only someone saved us from what is the train wreck away from the puck known as Patty 3 time champ Kane...FFS this is just pathetic.
No, what's pathetic is that posters will just defend Hughes despite any evidence put in front of them.

We get it, he's American like you, but there's no need to blindly defend a player whatever.
 

AmericanDream

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No, what's pathetic is that posters will just defend Hughes despite any evidence put in front of them.

We get it, he's American like you, but there's no need to blindly defend a player whatever.
blindly defend?? evidence??? the problem is this and I am sure it will yet again fly over your head - we understand what Jack Hughes is, we have been following him for years and not the past 6 months like some. we don't need to constantly posts shift by shift clips on his game away from the puck, or trying to find every excuse to minimize him despite being told over and over again by EVERY SINGLE legitimate scouting service that Hughes is CLEARLY #1 overall.

we get it, he isn't Patrice Bergeron. he has some flaws in his game that need to be fixed, but even with those said flaws, he is CLEARLY the superior prospect in this draft right now. I can call out nonsense when I see it, and it has been a pathetic attempt to try to create smoke where there is no fire. I even said I would love to see the same scrutiny of Patty Kane in his draft year with his play away from the puck like Hughes is getting...it would be just as bad if not worse, and yet that did not scare off the Blackhawks one bit...hmmmm, I wonder why??? maybe it is because his skillset is just elite, and that what he lacks in two way play he makes up for game breaking ability...same thing here with Hughes. Directors of scouting and GMs are not looking at what Jack does away from the puck as that can be taught, they are looking at what he does with the puck which is his God given gift that cannot be taught. And what Hughes does with the puck is head and shoulders above his peers at this moment. maybe the u-18 tourney will have someone close the gap but as it stands right now Hughes is in front and according to some the gap between #2 and #3 is closing as that should be the focus of some on here..
 

Sergei Shirokov

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Lack of hockey IQ? Can't forecheck?

Jack Hughes is a 5'10 165lb 17-year-old in a 19-year-old's tournament. He's not going to win alot of the battles along the boards, he knows that.

When the other team gained possession & tried to move the puck out of their zone Jack would read the first pass and be in position to intercept the pass or quickly take the puck off the guy receiving the pass. Noticed him doing that multiple times in the 1 game I saw live. Noticed it more times in the tournament.

Doesn't lack hockey sense. Think we are reaching a bit there. I can see him as a winger in the NHL though, atleast to start for sure.
 

ijuka

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blindly defend?? evidence??? the problem is this and I am sure it will yet again fly over your head - we understand what Jack Hughes is, we have been following him for years and not the past 6 months like some. we don't need to constantly posts shift by shift clips on his game away from the puck, or trying to find every excuse to minimize him despite being told over and over again by EVERY SINGLE legitimate scouting service that Hughes is CLEARLY #1 overall.
The problem I have with this continues being the same... You don't talk about the game Hughes plays at all, nor do you refute Blade Paradigm's points -He explained his thoughts on Hughes in very commendable detail. Your argument still consists solely of appeal to authority. We all know scouts prefer Hughes, but the point is to discuss his gameplay. Not repeat that scouts prefer Hughes(We all know that, Blade Paradigm knows that, etc.). What you could do is talk about the way he plays the game, show examples of why Blade Paradigm is wrong etc. Appeal to authority is such a weak basis for an argument, as it begins and ends with this: "Even experts can be wrong". You need argumentation even when using appeal to authority, such as "They say this, which can be seen here" - some substance. Otherwise I don't even get what you're trying to accomplish?

Compare the way Blade Paradigm argues to the way you argue - It's far superior and evidence-based. Could he be wrong? Yes. But at least he tries to present his case properly.
 

Blade Paradigm

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Jack makes a nifty move with space in his own zone to gain control of the puck, but his rush it all for naught as he skates the puck into the other corner and very quickly loses possession at the other end of the rink.



Instead of trying to obstruct the Team Finland puck carrier, Jack sidesteps him in an attempt to avoid him. The streaking player on the far side is missed too, as neither Jack nor the Team USA defender catch him coming down the far side.



Jack makes a good read to break up the Finland player at the net, but prior to that, and after that, he has two opportunities to get the puck out of the zone. He keeps it in his own zone and spends the whole shift in his defensive end. At the left half-wall, he has a chance to get the puck past the blueline, but instead throws it back down to his own goal line without any awareness of who is there; Team Finland regains possession.

 
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Blade Paradigm

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Do you plan on doing similar streamables with other players or just Hughes?
As the draft gets closer, I might highlight similar shifts from a few other players. @KillEmAll83's videos can be clipped into streamables, so I have access to the play of some of this year's draft-eligible players.

I might have a look at Kirby Dach in the future, as I have a lot of issues with his game too.
 

AmericanDream

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The problem I have with this continues being the same... You don't talk about the game Hughes plays at all, nor do you refute Blade Paradigm's points -He explained his thoughts on Hughes in very commendable detail. Your argument still consists solely of appeal to authority. We all know scouts prefer Hughes, but the point is to discuss his gameplay. Not repeat that scouts prefer Hughes(We all know that, Blade Paradigm knows that, etc.). What you could do is talk about the way he plays the game, show examples of why Blade Paradigm is wrong etc. Appeal to authority is such a weak basis for an argument, as it begins and ends with this: "Even experts can be wrong". You need argumentation even when using appeal to authority, such as "They say this, which can be seen here" - some substance. Otherwise I don't even get what you're trying to accomplish?

Compare the way Blade Paradigm argues to the way you argue - It's far superior and evidence-based. Could he be wrong? Yes. But at least he tries to present his case properly.
I just don't know how else to explain this - so this is the last time I will.

Jack Hughes has been under the microscope for 3 years now. Every GM, Director of Scouting, Regional Scouts, etc has seen him play multiple times. They know exactly who he is. They are NOT concerned with how he plays away from the puck, his back check/fore check/etc.. They simply do not care as those are things that can be taught. It is why the Jets took Laine at #2 overall despite being a trainwreck in his own zone, you take the great with the meh.

I don't have to show examples on how Hughes plays the game (they are everywhere...literally everywhere) or try to debunk Blade's pathetic attempts at discrediting a player because anyone that has objectively watched him knows exactly how Jack plays the game and where the focus actually is. The fact that you need someone to show you how Hughes plays speaks volumes of how little you know of this player and how you shouldn't be in here commenting at all. Go watch a game of his, a full game, not a cherry picked version of it...my job isn't to prove what is 100% known around the league and by nearly every poster that actually has watched the kid...we all have said he has work to do, nearly every 17 year old does away from the puck...anything outside of that is just a false narrative trying to be pushed.
 

Blade Paradigm

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Re-post of Post #896 (I'll try to get all of the streamables on the same page here).

So, here's a streamable of that blown coverage by Jack Hughes in the U20 game vs Team Slovakia:



Replays:



Jack being contained off the rush:



A few examples pertaining to some of the concerns about his game.
 

Blade Paradigm

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Re-post of Post #897 (I'll try to get all of the streamables on the same page here).





One of many examples of Jack just not trying hard enough on the forecheck; he has the speed to get to the puck and put pressure on the opponent, but does a flyby and allows the Russian defense to keep possession:

 

Bandit Keith

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As the draft gets closer, I might highlight similar shifts from a few other players. @KillEmAll83's videos can be clipped into streamables, so I have access to the play of some of this year's draft-eligible players.

I might have a look at Kirby Dach in the future, as I have a lot of issues with his game too.

I'd love to see some of Kakko. Surely he isn't the perfect hockey player and has weaknesses, right?
 

Blade Paradigm

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Jack actually takes the puck out of the offensive zone due to how fast he's moving; he then tries to take the puck back in all by himself, and loses the puck; the third time, a teammates dumps the puck in for Jack to retrieve and Jack doesn't forecheck; Team USA loses possession.



Jack tries to force himself into the offensive zone by trying to cut to the inside of the opposing defense; there is an open teammate next to him who could have received a pass for a clean entry.



Jack bobbles the puck, recovers, but continues to force an end-to-end rush when the lane is not available.



There are so many smarter decisions he could have made. The choices he makes with the puck are just average.
 
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Blade Paradigm

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Re-post of Post #898 (I'll try to get all of the streamables on the same page here).
Another example of Jack avoiding contact along the boards; he does not get to the puck the first time, but as the puck rides up the corner boards, he has an opportunity to engage at the half-wall and fight for the puck. He avoids contact, and the Russian player is uncontested for possession.



Another example of a haphazard forechecking attempt:

 
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Blade Paradigm

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This example, though, takes the cake. This is from the game against Dartmouth on October 22, 2018.

Jack is in his own zone regrouping with the puck. He receives the puck from his teammate with all of the time in the world; he decides to curl back and take it through his own goal crease with an opposing player draped all over him; it gets stuck in his own corner.



Here, Team USA's defenceman joins the rush, and Jack circles back to the point. However, Jack also decides to jump up afterward, resulting in his team being caught on a 3-on-1 against. In the defensive zone, he lets his man go in the corner, resulting in sustained pressure against.



Jack has a chance to get the puck out here by chipping it up into the neutral zone for his teammate to receive. He instead circles back deep into his own zone with the puck, causing trouble.

 
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