Proposal: Buffalo - Nashville

[Hasekperreault23]

No. Olofsson has a deadlier shot (and Arvy can shoot lights out too) but Arvidsson is a better all-around player...much more of an all-action presence on the ice.

Actually Oloffson is rather good defensively

 

[Maurice of Orange]

All Arvidsson needs to do is stay healthy, then 30 goals is in the bag. He would have been flirting with 50 the year before, so it's not like just skimming 30 is his ceiling. He's on another level than that.

And that's before factoring in any shift in deployment the Preds might take in their offensive game under Hynes. I keep going back to it, despite it being such a small sample, but the way the JoFA line was used as a "real #1 line" in the playoffs really signaled the potential for a huge change, and I hope after all this time off nobody on the staff forgets it and forgets just how well that line played when finally deployed that way consistently. If the team comes back to that gameplan, all the more reason to consider Arvidsson a shoo-in for 30+. But you just never really know with the Preds, alas.

Health is still an issue though, because Arvidsson maybe does play a little too fearlessly for his size. I find he also missed the stretch passes a little bit last season with Subban gone. They have to get the rest of the D looking for those bombs again more.

Anyway, no matter how many times anybody wants to argue in favor of Reinhart, there is just NO WAY that is any kind of fit for the Preds. Arvidsson is exactly what we need. You could flip that original proposed deal the other way and make it Reinhart+2nd+Mittelstadt for just Arvy and I'd still easily pass. If Preds fans saying this sort of thing doesn't register, well, fine, but that's how it is.

The thing is your going off of what Arvidsson’s was before his injuries and the way teams used to defend him and your also forgetting Nashville doesn’t have to firepower they’ve had within the last couple of seasons that helped insulate Arvidsson and Nashville’s scoring lines.

You also mentioned that Hynes could shift line deployment but in that small sample size it didn’t seem to help much during the rest of the regular season as Nashville was pretty average until the last 3 games of the regular season and then lost to an inferior team in Arizona during the qualifying round.

I don’t believe it’s gotta matter if Nashville doesn’t add to their roster, the JoFA line can’t carry the workload alone and it could have an effect on that line as it did last season losing players year after year without replacing them with better or equal players.

Since Nashville’s Cup run they have lost Craig Smith, Nick Bonino, Fiala/Granlund, Subban, bought out Turris, traded Hartman, Watson, etc etc....but the Preds really haven’t added anything besides Kunin a couple Arizona 4th liners in Cousins and old Richardson and a pair of 3rd pairing defensemen in Borowiecki and Benning all while Rinne has gotten older.

I imagine Hynes will be given somewhat of a leash by the front office but if Nashville doesn’t win and get into a playoff position real changes could start being made to the core of the team.

I understand the optimism around Arvidsson’s game returning to form from a passionate Nashville fans perspective but I also wouldn’t let that blind me to the fact that there has been a decline in Arvidsson’s game due to the manner in which he plays the game.

 

[GoldOnGold]

The thing is your going off of what Arvidsson’s was before his injuries and the way teams used to defend him and your also forgetting Nashville doesn’t have to firepower they’ve had within the last couple of seasons that helped insulate Arvidsson and Nashville’s scoring lines.

You also mentioned that Hynes could shift line deployment but in that small sample size it didn’t seem to help much during the rest of the regular season as Nashville was pretty average until the last 3 games of the regular season and then lost to an inferior team in Arizona during the qualifying round.

I don’t believe it’s gotta matter if Nashville doesn’t add to their roster, the JoFA line can’t carry the workload alone and it could have an effect on that line as it did last season losing players year after year without replacing them with better or equal players.

Since Nashville’s Cup run they have lost Craig Smith, Nick Bonino, Fiala/Granlund, Subban, bought out Turris, traded Hartman, Watson, etc etc....but the Preds really haven’t added anything besides Kunin a couple Arizona 4th liners in Cousins and old Richardson and a pair of 3rd pairing defensemen in Borowiecki and Benning all while Rinne has gotten older.

I imagine Hynes will be given somewhat of a leash by the front office but if Nashville doesn’t win and get into a playoff position real changes could start being made to the core of the team.

I understand the optimism around Arvidsson’s game returning to form from a passionate Nashville fans perspective but I also wouldn’t let that blind me to the fact that there has been a decline in Arvidsson’s game due to the manner in which he plays the game.

If you think that's all true, why would it be any different for Reinhart?

 

[Maurice of Orange]

If you think that's all true, why would it be any different for Reinhart?

Because with Sam Reinhart, Nashville would be getting a younger player to build around who’s career should last a lot longer then Arvidsson’s career.

It’s also been rumored that the Preds are going to be in on Hoffman, whether Nashville gets him or not remains to be seen but I’d want someone to pass to him, it wouldn’t be Reinhart as I’m not a GM but I don’t see Arvidsson giving up a chance to shoot when his shooting percentage has taken a hit already last season.

Reinhart is also a better passer, as Jack Eichel might attest to, has better hockey IQ and has better 2-way acumen.

Reinhart is also projected to be a consistent 60 point producer something which I don’t see Arvidsson becoming again.

Arvidsson is a player that needs to be in a shooting lane and getting shots to the net to be successful, if that doesn’t happen that’s not good for Nashville as seen by his lower shooting percentage last season and his injury that left a void in Nashville’s scoring.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Where the f*** is the decline in Arvidsson's game? You say the last two years but two years ago he had the highest PPG of his career. The point total was lower because he was hurt. Last year he got hurt and the whole team was bad with Lavy wearing out his welcome.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Arvidsson is a player that needs to be in a shooting lane and getting shots to the net to be successful,

Okay, you've never seen him.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Okay, you've never seen him.

With such an effort to show what an inferior, declining, and older player Arvy is for us I'm wondering why Buffalo would have any interest in taking him on.

 

[Soundgarden]

The decline of Arvidsson’s numbers the last 2 seasons, the type of game he plays which is more susceptible to break down, the way teams defend against him now, the questionable hockey IQ and the questions concerning adjustments or lack thereof in his game.

He had 34 goals in 54 games 2 seasons ago, third best GPG behind Ovechkin and Draisaitl.

 

[BKarchitect]

It’s not a terrible proposal and it’s at least got some thought behind it but I think thing is we can see clearly that Nashville fans who watch Arvy on a daily have zero interest in this and to be fair they are not even saying Reinhart is bad or this is even good for Buffalo but clearly they know their player and team and this just doesn’t move the needle, for them and their team.

It’s easy to sit there and be like “hey I’m an unbiased observer trying to make fair deals” but at some point the dissertations on why this is so fair and good for Nashville really start to have an air of condescension to them. I know that’s not the intent but at some point, maybe just take the response from Preds fans to heart when it is this unilaterally strong in response.

 

[Halla]

nashville shouldnt be adding here. victor probably isnt doing 34g in 58 games again but he also isnt gonna be as low as 15 in 57 either.

I dont see reinhart doing well in nashville. preds have been there and tried that with secondary scorers (Turris,Johansen,Duchene, Granlund etc)

 

[sabremike]

It’s not a terrible proposal and it’s at least got some thought behind it but I think thing is we can see clearly that Nashville fans who watch Arvy on a daily have zero interest in this and to be fair they are not even saying Reinhart is bad or this is even good for Buffalo but clearly they know their player and team and this just doesn’t move the needle, for them and their team.

It’s easy to sit there and be like “hey I’m an unbiased observer trying to make fair deals” but at some point the dissertations on why this is so fair and good for Nashville really start to have an air of condescension to them. I know that’s not the intent but at some point, maybe just take the response from Preds fans to heart when it is this unilaterally strong in response.

I'm a Sabres fan who has zero interest in this so fair enough. I really don't think people realize just how good Sam is, if he played for an organization that wasn't the biggest Mickey Mouse dumpster fire in all of pro sports he would be considered a upper tier level player. On a credible team people would see how good he is.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Where the f*** is the decline in Arvidsson's game? You say the last two years but two years ago he had the highest PPG of his career. The point total was lower because he was hurt. Last year he got hurt and the whole team was bad with Lavy wearing out his welcome.

Ok I didn’t mention anything about Arvidsson prior to the last 2 seasons, I’ve mentioned the (18-19 and 19-20) seasons and I have nothing bad to say about Arvidsson as a player during the 16-17 and 17-18 seasons he was on top of his game during that time as evident by his production during that time.

I’m not blaming Arvidsson decline solely on his injuries but that may play a factor in his future production if he burns himself out or is injured more often then not.

Again not saying Arvidsson is any injury prone player but if a player is injured all the time he doesn’t help his team produce from the pressbox recovering from injuries.

Also Nashville’s poor performance can’t be blamed on the coach alone, Lavy was a good coach and unexpectedly coached them to a cup final during his tenure in Nashville.

Okay, you've never seen him.

I’ve seen plenty of Arvidsson between my time in Tennessee.

I feel passionate about my favorite teams players just as you do about your favorite teams players, I get it from a Nashville POV he is a heart and soul player thats commendable but I don’t believe Arvidsson is the smartest player, it’s nothing personal against Arvidsson, I just see a downfall coming with his style of play and the adjustments he probably won’t be able to makeup for.

He is a small player that is being defended more aggressively towards the wall, his instincts are to stay there instead of finding open ice for skating room. His shooting percentage is down meaning he isn’t going to score as much.

Doesn’t bode well as I’ve seen his low IQ take over and make questionable decisions in the offensive and netural zones with and without the puck.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

With such an effort to show what an inferior, declining, and older player Arvy is for us I'm wondering why Buffalo would have any interest in taking him on.

Showing every excuse why you think Arvidsson is going to be a good player for the rest of his contract with Nashville.

That’s why in the OP, I included other parts to Buffalo, not saying Arvidsson won’t produce for another season or 2 but not at a 60 point clip some are proclaiming.

I’m not really seeing any compelling evidence from Nashville’s fans as to why he might put up better numbers with an inferior lineup than what he’s used to in the future, I just keep seeing his numbers from the distant past.

Not good to look in the past but look ahead and in Nashville case they might want to consider restocking the cupboard for the future if they go south in the standing.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Ok I didn’t mention anything about Arvidsson prior to the last 2 seasons, I’ve mentioned the (18-19 and 19-20) seasons

Right, the 18-19 season where he posted 48 points in 58 games, the highest PPG of his career as a sign that he was declining.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Right, the 18-19 season where he posted 48 points in 58 games, the highest PPG of his career as a sign that he was declining.

Yes but again if you look at his shooting percentage it was an insane 17.4% that season, which was a well above average number.

If you think Arvidsson can replicate that season then more power to you as that is way off his norm and is a number he is not likely to replicate.
His career shooting percentage is 12.1% which is decent but still I don’t believe it will make for a 60 point season.

I’d say maybe a 25-25 or a little above 50 points but not 60.

Another idea that I haven’t mentioned is putting Arvidsson with Duchene to help keep his numbers up for atleast the next 2 seasons but if Arvidsson is with Johansen forget about seeing 60 points.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Yes but again if you look at his shooting percentage it was an insane 17.4% that season, which was a well above average number.

If you think Arvidsson can replicate that season then more power to you as that is way off his norm and is a number he is not likely to replicate.
His career shooting percentage is 12.1% which is decent but still I don’t believe it will make for a 60 point season.

I’d say maybe a 25-25 or a little above 50 points but not 60.

Another idea that I haven’t mentioned is putting Arvidsson with Duchene to help keep his numbers up for atleast the next 2 seasons but if Arvidsson is with Johansen forget about seeing 60 points.

And he got basically no assists so you would assume that would go back to his normal 30ish assists so everything basically evens out and he's a 60 point player again.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

And he got basically no assists so you would assume that would go back to his normal 30ish assists so everything basically evens out and he's a 60 point player again.

We were making arguments over Arvidsson’s point totals, you’ve made your points and have your opinions of what Arvidsson’s point totals will be and I’ve made my statements as to why I don’t believe he will reach 60 points again.

So it’s a case were we disagree and that’s ok.

Arvidsson has been a beast for Nashville especially during that cup run and I was rooting for Nashville hoping they’d beat the Pens but it just wasn’t to be.

I just have concerns about Arvidsson’s style of play and if he can keep up his pace of play for more then a few more seasons and would be worried as a whole if I were a Nashville fan.

If the Preds fall in the standing Poile might be forced to start moving players and one of those players could be Arvidsson for younger players/prospects or picks if Nashville drops out of the playoffs picture in whatever the NHL is calling the central division/western conference this upcoming season.

It doesn’t help with the current situation with the pandemic and the condensed schedule that the NHL might play.
3 games in 4 nights would be rough on any player but may also effect Arvidsson because of the high intensity game he plays.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I’ve seen plenty of Arvidsson between my time in Tennessee.

Let's put a number on it. How many games have you seen Arvidsson play?

I feel passionate about my favorite teams players just as you do about your favorite teams players,

What's your favorite team?

 

[GretzkytoKurri9917]

Acquires: RW Viktor Arvidsson, rights to LW Alex Campbell and a 2nd round pick in 2021

Acquires: RW Sam Reinhart and a 4th round pick in 2022

This proposal is a mix change of scenery trade for both teams. Not sure how close the value is but tried to balance it for both teams as both players bring different intangibles to their respective teams.

Buffalo makes this deal to add a good skater and a player that is creative with the puck that has good hands in close. Arvidsson also has plenty of playoff experience.

Viktor Arvidsson’s contract is 4.25mil x 4 seasons and is 27 years old.

Nashville makes this deal to add an outstanding skilled 2-way playmaker that owns an underrated shot.

Sam Reinhart’s contract is 5.2mil at 1 season, RFA (arb.) when deal expires after the 20-21 season. Reinhart is 25 years old.

Nashville's response:

 

[MarkusKetterer]

This is more of a “one for one” with a conditional pick attached to one side trade.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

This is more of a “one for one” with a conditional pick attached to one side trade.

Except you still need to have some kind of motivation to do that one for one. Maybe in terms of isolated objective value, that's what it is. But what is the motivating factor in the specific team situation? I wouldn't speak for Buffalo. But from Nashville's POV, there is just no motivation whatsoever. We need a quick-strike scoring winger most of anything. Even with Arvidsson on our roster, it's still our biggest need for the other scoring line. So taking into account team needs, and you can throw contracts on top of that, there is ZERO motivation for Nashville.

I'm also a little dubious about the motivation for Buffalo, given they at least ostensibly have a reasonable collection of scoring wingers in Skinner, Hall, and Olofsson. If Buffalo said they have no interest, that wouldn't faze me either. All I can say with confidence is that it's not remotely interesting for Nashville, not even as a 1-for-1.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Except you still need to have some kind of motivation to do that one for one. Maybe in terms of isolated objective value, that's what it is. But what is the motivating factor in the specific team situation? I wouldn't speak for Buffalo. But from Nashville's POV, there is just no motivation whatsoever. We need a quick-strike scoring winger most of anything. Even with Arvidsson on our roster, it's still our biggest need for the other scoring line. So taking into account team needs, and you can throw contracts on top of that, there is ZERO motivation for Nashville.

I'm also a little dubious about the motivation for Buffalo, given they at least ostensibly have a reasonable collection of scoring wingers in Skinner, Hall, and Olofsson. If Buffalo said they have no interest, that wouldn't faze me either. All I can say with confidence is that it's not remotely interesting for Nashville, not even as a 1-for-1.

My thinking on the additional pick (going either way, and it’d be a later pick) is mostly performance based (assuming a full season schedule). And obviously that would be based on the season schedule.

I’m actually surprised more conditional picks aren’t based on percentages (taking out re-signings or playoff rounds or Top XX).

Like say it’s Arvidsson for Reinhart, and a conditional 3rd, but that 3rd is on both sides. The third is conditional on 25 goals or 60 points or whatever (obviously those would get worked out by the GMs). As it is, swapping the two is equal. But the conditional pick might be more enticing from both teams GMs to do it.

Basically it becomes 1 for 1, or one team does 1 for 1 and a 3rd to make up the year end value difference.

 

[Mick Jagr]

He's had 2 injuries.

Well, thats not true. I've owned him every year in fantasy hockey since his breakout season. I live near Nashville and have gone to several Predators game every single season of their existence (since '98). Even his Wikipedia references at least 3 injuries. So forgive me if I don't agree with you, random internet guy.

 

[Mick Jagr]

The decline of Arvidsson’s numbers the last 2 seasons, the type of game he plays which is more susceptible to break down, the way teams defend against him now, the questionable hockey IQ and the questions concerning adjustments or lack thereof in his game.

What decline? Even after Robert Bortuzzo's attempt at murdering Ardvisson and subsequently injuring him last season, the guy still managed to post 28 points in a shortened season. Before that though, Arvi still posted 48 points in 58 games. Prior to that he had 61 in 78 and prior to that he had 61 in 80.

One pandemic shortened season where he was crosschecked into oblivion by Bortuzzo does not = a decline.



Now... if he comes back next year and he's just ridiculously bad... then you can start throwing around the word decline. But even then, we're about to encounter another shortened season with new divisions and COVID still present. So who the hell knows? Haha. Either way though, thus far the Preds got 3 really production years out of a player they took in the 4th round.

 

[triggrman]

Well, thats not true. I've owned him every year in fantasy hockey since his breakout season. I live near Nashville and have gone to several Predators game every single season of their existence (since '98). Even his Wikipedia references at least 3 injuries. So forgive me if I don't agree with you, random internet guy.

Oooooohhhh, you got me, random boy that lives close to Nashville, you're right he's had 3 injuries that have caused him to go on IR.

That's not injury prone to me. Most people are injured on the Bortuzzo hit, his other was a broken thumb in 18, and upper body injury in 2015. I think that's it, but I have only watched Nashville hockey since the days of South Stars.