Buffalo Bills Buffalo Bills 2021 Offseason part IV. Final preseason #3 vs Green Bay 1pm Sat 8/28

[Sabre Dance]

Tax dollars used for the public good, even things I personally don't need, are fine. Tax dollars used to subsidize private businesses though, we should all object to.

California has been leading the way for years to show that you can in fact build amazing sports arenas that make you a lot of money without requiring billions in public subsidies to do so.

Sports stadiums shouldn't be about making the community money. People will say the Pegulas will make money. Not really. The Pegulas likely won't make a profit until they sell the team.

 

[SackTastic]

Sports stadiums shouldn't be about making the community money. People will say the Pegulas will make money. Not really. The Pegulas likely won't make a profit until they sell the team.

They are 100% profiting on both the Bills and Sabres overall already. Guarantee it.

 

[WeDislikeEich]

They are 100% profiting on both the Bills and Sabres overall already. Guarantee it.

They make roughly $400+ million a year just off the Bills, and I believe that was before the new TV deal went into effect.

Here’s How Rich Every NFL Team Is

edit:

NFL set for 75% revenue increase per season in 11-year, $113 billion TV/streaming deal; Amazon gets Thursdays

 

[Der Jaeger]

I’m not worried. It’s likely their opening bid. Smart to come in hard and then ease off.

 

[Sabre Dance]

They are 100% profiting on both the Bills and Sabres overall already. Guarantee it.

Year to year they make money, yes, but they've spent a couple billion dollars on sports teams. Cash. Not to mention the millions spent on building downtown. It's not likely they see anything near that return until they sell.

 

[Sabre Dance]

They make roughly $400+ million a year just off the Bills, and I believe that was before the new TV deal went into effect.

Here’s How Rich Every NFL Team Is

edit:

NFL set for 75% revenue increase per season in 11-year, $113 billion TV/streaming deal; Amazon gets Thursdays

I read a while back that the shared revenue basically covers costs. The Bills right now are profitable because of revenue sharing plus zero stadium debt. The Pegulas would like to have a new stadium and continue with zero stadium debt.

As a tax payer and a Bills fan I'll hand over the few dollars it'll take from me to help build a stadium.

 

[SundherDome]

They should ideally have come in with some cash as their optics in Buffalo are not high because of how they handled the pandemic. Honestly, both venues need to be knocked down and replaced. I don't know how it could be done but basically the city loans the money and they pay back a guaranteed rate. The something that quantifies the impact/growth to the area would be able to reduce the amount paid back. I.e it creates 1,000 new jobs over the course of 2 years so this they pay back 20% less or something of that nature.

This proposal breaks down to 1,633 dollars per person which won't fly but spread that over 30 years it is about 55 dollars a year per person (if evenly distributed) until the next stadium bill would be due.

 

[Sabre Dance]

I'm interested to see if there will be any PSLs with 100% public funding. That would be key. There's a lot more to this proposal.

 

[missingmika]

Year to year they make money, yes, but they've spent a couple billion dollars on sports teams. Cash. Not to mention the millions spent on building downtown. It's not likely they see anything near that return until they sell.

Buffalo Bills on the Forbes NFL Team Valuations List

Operating income is $73M, purchase price is $1.4 B. That’s a payback period of 19 years.

That doesn’t factor in non-monetary perks like being in an NFL draft room.

plus the latest Forbes valuation is $2.05 B. So a pretty big increase in value in the 7 years of ownership. About 46 percent. You would be hard pressed finding an investment with that much return. (Let’s not forget this increase is occurring when supposedly fans are boycotting for people kneeling)

For the outlay of funds they had it’s a more successful venture than almost any investment.

 

[SackTastic]

Year to year they make money, yes, but they've spent a couple billion dollars on sports teams. Cash. Not to mention the millions spent on building downtown. It's not likely they see anything near that return until they sell.

They are 100% getting returns on that asset now. They don't have to wait until they sell.

Ultra rich people don't just invest a pile of money in an asset, and then just sit back and collect their 5% a year. Then leverage that asset to get cash to invest in other things and make even more money. Every rich person does this. The biggest risk is that the value of the underlying asset (The Bills in this case) decreases, but NFL teams just don't decrease in value. This is why they are money printers.

They're collecting about 5% return in cash every year right now. They could also take a $100M loan out against the team ( <5%) at prob a 3% interest rate, and invest that into an ETF that returns about 10% annually, profiting 7% ( $7M) on that spread for doing absolutely nothing. That's a 10% bump in their operating income for nothing. And that's not even a great example; whatever they are doing is probably even better.

Once you are have a certain amount of money, there is all kinds of financial engineering that you can do that is low risk and just makes you richer. It's insane.

 

[missingmika]

If we’re doing a top prospect list for the Bills what is it? I’ll define prospect as a non-bonafide starter/start or someone with potential even though they’re starting, so no Josh Allen but yes Dawson Knox. Keep it 23 and under, maybe 24 and under looking at the roster to include guys like Dane Jackson?. My list:

Basham
Rousseau
Gabe Davis
Spencer Brown
Epensa
Harrell
Hodgins
Singletary
Zack Moss
Tommy Doyle
Antonio Williams

 

[joshjull]

They should ideally have come in with some cash as their optics in Buffalo are not high because of how they handled the pandemic. Honestly, both venues need to be knocked down and replaced. I don't know how it could be done but basically the city loans the money and they pay back a guaranteed rate. The something that quantifies the impact/growth to the area would be able to reduce the amount paid back. I.e it creates 1,000 new jobs over the course of 2 years so this they pay back 20% less or something of that nature.

This proposal breaks down to 1,633 dollars per person which won't fly but spread that over 30 years it is about 55 dollars a year per person (if evenly distributed) until the next stadium bill would be due.

The City of Buffalo wont be involved at all with the Bills stadium. They may be involved to some extent with the Sabres arena improvements. The lions share of tax payer money for a Bills stadium will come from New York State. Erie County tax dollars will be involved to some extent as well.

 

[Sabre Dance]

They are 100% getting returns on that asset now. They don't have to wait until they sell.

Ultra rich people don't just invest a pile of money in an asset, and then just sit back and collect their 5% a year. Then leverage that asset to get cash to invest in other things and make even more money. Every rich person does this. The biggest risk is that the value of the underlying asset (The Bills in this case) decreases, but NFL teams just don't decrease in value. This is why they are money printers.

They're collecting about 5% return in cash every year right now. They could also take a $100M loan out against the team ( <5%) at prob a 3% interest rate, and invest that into an ETF that returns about 10% annually, profiting 7% ( $7M) on that spread for doing absolutely nothing. That's a 10% bump in their operating income for nothing. And that's not even a great example; whatever they are doing is probably even better.

Once you are have a certain amount of money, there is all kinds of financial engineering that you can do that is low risk and just makes you richer. It's insane.

$2 billion + in cash spent. I just don't think they will make that back. They'll make a lot of money back, but $2 billion?

The Bills were only a good investment if the goal was to sell them.

I think the Pegulas would finally get that return if they get a new stadium debt free. If they have to dump $700 million on the Stadium then they are never making money on the Bills.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Buffalo Bills on the Forbes NFL Team Valuations List

Operating income is $73M, purchase price is $1.4 B. That’s a payback period of 19 years.

That doesn’t factor in non-monetary perks like being in an NFL draft room.

plus the latest Forbes valuation is $2.05 B. So a pretty big increase in value in the 7 years of ownership. About 46 percent. You would be hard pressed finding an investment with that much return. (Let’s not forget this increase is occurring when supposedly fans are boycotting for people kneeling)

For the outlay of funds they had it’s a more successful venture than almost any investment.

They have zero stadium debt. They aren't making that much every year.

Add $700 million dollars to what they've spent and they're likely somewhere around $2.6 billion in cash spent. Terry Pegula will never see that return. Maybe Kim Pegula.

 

[SundherDome]

The City of Buffalo wont be involved at all with the Bills stadium. They may be involved to some extent with the Sabres arena improvements. The lions share of tax payer money for a Bills stadium will come from New York State. Erie County tax dollars will be involved to some extent as well.

I have no idea how it works I figured the county pays it and the state backs the debt.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

If we’re doing a top prospect list for the Bills what is it? I’ll define prospect as a non-bonafide starter/start or someone with potential even though they’re starting, so no Josh Allen but yes Dawson Knox. Keep it 23 and under, maybe 24 and under looking at the roster to include guys like Dane Jackson?. My list:

Basham
Rousseau
Gabe Davis
Spencer Brown
Epensa
Harrell
Hodgins
Singletary
Zack Moss
Tommy Doyle
Antonio Williams

Personally I like Darryl Johnson too. Not sure who else - maybe that CB Dane Jackson?

 

[missingmika]

$2 billion + in cash spent. I just don't think they will make that back. They'll make a lot of money back, but $2 billion?

The Bills were only a good investment if the goal was to sell them.

I think the Pegulas would finally get that return if they get a new stadium debt free. If they have to dump $700 million on the Stadium then they are never making money on the Bills.

You’d have to be Trump casino level incompetence not to make money on the Bills. Think of the Bills similar to dumping $2 billion into the stock market. You’ll get dividends each year (net income from operations of the Bills) and when you sell you get your long term capital gains of appreciation.

There is a very small possibility you’d invest in a stock that returns the dividends per dollar spent that the Bills generate and an even smaller possibility you invest that money in a stock that generated a 46 percent return in that much time.

 

[Husko]

I don't care if Erie County/the state builds the pegulas a new stadium, but I will say these things:

(1) Did it ever occur to the Pegulas that a pitch for a downtown, multipurpose venue would have more more appear for public funds than keeping it out in the middle of nowhere just to placate the suburbanites?

(2) I generally get a little frustrated by "public monies should go to public goods and a stadium isn't one of them!" takes. Tax dollars go to a lot of stuff. My tax dollars often go to things I'd personally rather not fund if it was up to me (policing locally, war on the federal level), but well that's how it works. And tax dollars go to subsidize big business literally all the time. I'd actually argue that funding a stadium in a sports city like Buffalo brings about as much utility to your average Buffalonian as you can get out of most major public spending ventures.

But I digress. It's all just posturing. It'll get worked out one way or another, and I'm sure it'll be with a split-cost big stupid stadium in OP that sits empty 350 days a year.

 

[93LEAFS]

A couple things, as someone who tries to go to a Bills game once a year due to the proximity. One, I would love a new stadium near Keybank arena, just due to the fact I'd love to stay in a hotel near Allentown and walk down, as getting to a game without driving or some sort of service is a nightmare right now, as I don't think there is any hotel within walking distance of Orchard Park.

Two, as a longtime Browns fan, I hope you guys never have to go through what we did in 1995. No passionate fanbase should be threatened with relocation so a billionaire can get a new stadium. I Love Austin, and it's a great city to visit, but the Bills belong in Buffalo. Thankfully, it's likely an empty threat and posturing.

 

[Kublakhan]

Not huge into the Bills but I thought I heard on channel two news tonight about a stadium that if everything goes bad the Bills could move to a possible Austin Texas??

 

[SackTastic]

$2 billion + in cash spent. I just don't think they will make that back. They'll make a lot of money back, but $2 billion?

The Bills were only a good investment if the goal was to sell them.

I think the Pegulas would finally get that return if they get a new stadium debt free. If they have to dump $700 million on the Stadium then they are never making money on the Bills.

You don't get it.

The Bills will be worth MORE every year for the foreseeable future. Time + a new building alone will double their value compared to what they paid. And all that extra value is able to be unlocked in other ways to make even more.

Borrowing $700M in today's low interest rate environment is easy. Debt service would be cheap, and it's fully paid off in 10 years or less.

 

[SackTastic]

The City of Buffalo wont be involved at all with the Bills stadium. They may be involved to some extent with the Sabres arena improvements. The lions share of tax payer money for a Bills stadium will come from New York State. Erie County tax dollars will be involved to some extent as well.

The Sabres angle : Erie County owns the building, City of Buffalo owns the land. ( Remember back to when Hamister was trying to buy them; he wanted Buffalo to give him a break on rent.)

The city wouldn't have much say in things unless the lease allows them to increase the rent that they charge if the building is improved.

 

[Matt Ress]

Tax dollars used for the public good, even things I personally don't need, are fine. Tax dollars used to subsidize private businesses though, we should all object to.

California has been leading the way for years to show that you can in fact build amazing sports arenas that make you a lot of money without requiring billions in public subsidies to do so.

Are you referring to SoFi? Which homes 2 NFL franchises and will likely demand huge tax breaks. California hands out money like it's water...oh oops..um

 

[SackTastic]

Are you referring to SoFi? Which homes 2 NFL franchises and will likely demand huge tax breaks. California hands out money like it's water...oh oops..um

SoFi got some tax breaks, but not billions worth. Not even close.

 

[Matt Ress]

SoFi got some tax breaks, but not billions worth. Not even close.

Having 2 ownership groups helps