Confirmed Trade: [BUF/MIN] Scandella, Pominville, 4th Round Pick for Ennis, Foligno, 3rd Round Pick

[TaLoN]

No one would buy out a 45 point player at 5.6 mil per. Pominville is worth his money much more than Ennis is and Scandella and Foligno cannot even be compared - one is useful top 4 D, the other is a trainwreck. You got fleeced, denying it maybe makes you feel better after everyone clearly was asking for the moon for Scandella on here but it's the truth that Botts fleeced Minny.

Try again. The Wild bought out Vanek. 41pts in 74 games and only making $6mil.

Salary Cap forces moves like that all the time.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Try again. The Wild bought out Vanek. 41pts in 74 games and only making $6mil.

Salary Cap forces moves like that all the time.

Keep trying to justify this lunacy for your team, hope it makes you feel better. Don't come back compalining we fleeced you when you see how terrible both Ennis and Foligno are. Pomers is Matthews compared to them.

 

[TaLoN]

Keep trying to justify this lunacy for your team, hope it makes you feel better. Don't come back compalining we fleeced you when you see how terrible both Ennis and Foligno are. Pomers is Matthews compared to them.

You're more than welcome to your opinion, and I'm not even arguing against your overall opinion, just pointing out that Pominville was a 3rd line player that was facing buyout before his contract would have ran out here. It's the reality of the situation.

You called him a top 6 player, and he hasn't been in that role in over 2yrs now.

Wild's top 6 last season.

Zucker - Koivu - Granlund
Nino - Staal - Coyle

This discussion is actually kind of funny. Just last week Buffalo fans thought Poms was only marginally better than Moulson and the Wild should be thankful to get Moulson for him, now suddenly Pominville is an effective top 6 player again in their minds, when he hasn't been that in 2yrs.

Amazing what a different color uniform does to people's opinions.

 

[TwiztedHeat]

There's no debate the Wild got worse in the top 9 next season. Coyle moving to 3C is worse than Hanzal and Ennis playing anything in the top 6 is bad.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

You're more than welcome to your opinion, and I'm not even arguing against your overall opinion, just pointing out that Pominville was a 3rd line player that was facing buyout before his contract would have ran out here. It's the reality of the situation.

You called him a top 6 player, and he hasn't been in that role in over 2yrs now.

Wild's top 6 last season.

Zucker - Koivu - Granlund
Nino - Staal - Coyle

This discussion is actually kind of funny. Just last week Buffalo fans thought Poms was only marginally better than Moulson and the Wild should be thankful to get Moulson for him, now suddenly Pominville is an effective top 6 player again in their minds, when he hasn't been that in 2yrs.

Amazing what a different color uniform does to people's opinions.

We will likely use him on the 3rd as well but for a 3rd line his possession stats and points are great. Certainly much better than what Foligno or Ennis bring. You would have been better off just buying him out and keeping Scandella than the return you got in this trade if you are that desperate for cap space. Now you have Foligno who commands 2.5 mil per and Ennis who is much more of a buyout candidate than Pomers based on his last 2 years and he's not exactly cheap to buy out either Cap-wise.

 

[TaLoN]

We will likely use him on the 3rd as well but for a 3rd line his possession stats and points are great. Certainly much better than what Foligno or Ennis bring. You would have been better off just buying him out and keeping Scandella than the return you got in this trade if you are that desperate for cap space. Now you have Foligno who commands 2.5 mil per and Ennis who is much more of a buyout candidate than Pomers based on his last 2 years and he's not exactly cheap to buy out either Cap-wise.

Not really, there's a hefty buyout penalty on his contract. Poms buyout wasn't feasible until next season as a result.

 

[Bazeek]

Keep trying to justify this lunacy for your team, hope it makes you feel better. Don't come back compalining we fleeced you when you see how terrible both Ennis and Foligno are. Pomers is Matthews compared to them.

I know that Scandella's a good add for Buffalo, but the most important part of this trade for the Wild isn't in the title of this thread.

Ennis is damaged goods that will probably replace most or all of what we're losing in Pominville if he's healthy. If he's not, whatever. He'll go on LTIR.

Foligno's okay as a physical presence that isn't terrible at hockey. I don't buy that he'll be more productive on the Wild than he was in Buffalo, but we've definitely been a team that hasn't hit much and he should help with that.

I like Scandella and wasn't in a huge hurry to get Pominville off the team, but neither of them fit anymore. Scandella especially was getting pushed out from the top by Suter and Brodin and from the bottom by Olofsson. You can't have your 3rd LD making $4m when you've got a replacement for $725k and a top 4 making ~$20m.

It's not good value, but value was a secondary concern for the Wild here. Fans had high expectations (like we tend to do), but big-picture-wise the Wild are shedding cap from their bottom pairing and bottom 6 while adding an element that we lack and making space to lock up core players long term. It's a prosaic move, but it's not lunacy.

I hope that Scandella can help Buffalo make a push into the playoffs next season. The comments slotting him onto the top pairing are a little concerning, but if it's a stopgap until someone pushes him down to the middle pairing it may work out pretty well.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Not really, there's a hefty buyout penalty on his contract. Poms buyout wasn't feasible until next season as a result.

Whats the Ennis vs Pomers buyout schedules?

 

[TaLoN]

There's no debate the Wild got worse in the top 9 next season. Coyle moving to 3C is worse than Hanzal and Ennis playing anything in the top 6 is bad.

The question isn't if Coyle at C is better or worse than Hanzal, Hanzal was a short term playoff plan that didn't work out.

The question is if Coyle will be better at C than Haula... but we're not even sure yet if it will be Coyle or JEE at C.

 

[BagHead]

There's no debate the Wild got worse in the top 9 next season. Coyle moving to 3C is worse than Hanzal and Ennis playing anything in the top 6 is bad.

Coyle starting at 3rd line center doesn't mean he's going to stay there. Ennis can play center, as can JEE. I'd be surprised if one of them doesn't end up getting time in that job. The only way I see Coyle keeping that job instead of 2nd line RW is if both Ennis turns out to be productive as a top 6 winger, and Coyle plays like the monster we know he can be at center. Just one of those two things failing, and he'll end up splitting that 3rd line center time with someone else.

Also Hanzal was a good player for us. You guys were expecting our 3rd line center to be better than 0.65 PPG and nearly 60% on the draw? It wasn't Hanzal that went wrong, it was everyone else.

 

[TwiztedHeat]

The question isn't if Coyle at C is better or worse than Hanzal, Hanzal was a short term playoff plan that didn't work out.

The question is if Coyle will be better at C than Haula... but we're not even sure yet if it will be Coyle or JEE at C.

Thing is Coyle isn't better than Haula at 3C though. Coyle is so much better at RW. I really wish they'd just let JEE start at 3C and roll with it.

 

[TwiztedHeat]

Coyle starting at 3rd line center doesn't mean he's going to stay there. Ennis can play center, as can JEE. I'd be surprised if one of them doesn't end up getting time in that job. The only way I see Coyle keeping that job instead of 2nd line RW is if both Ennis turns out to be productive as a top 6 winger, and Coyle plays like the monster we know he can be at center. Just one of those two things failing, and he'll end up splitting that 3rd line center time with someone else.

Also Hanzal was a good player for us. You guys were expecting our 3rd line center to be better than 0.65 PPG and nearly 60% on the draw? It wasn't Hanzal that went wrong, it was everyone else.

I wish we could get him back at a reasonable hit. He's a championship level 3C, no doubt.

 

[TaLoN]

Whats the Ennis vs Pomers buyout schedules?

Poms Buyout 2017-2018

Initial cap hit $5.6, Actual cost $1.25, Savings $1.25, Cap hit $4.350
2018-2019 $5.6, $1.25, $1.25, $1.85
2019-2020 0, $1.25, $-1.25, $1.25
2020-2021, 0 $1.25, $-1.25, $1.25

Ennis Buyout 2017-2018 $4.6, $1.216, $2.433, $2.166
2018-19 $4.6, $1.216, $1.216, $2.433, $2.166
2019-20 0, $1.216, $-1.216, $1.216
2020-21 0, $1.216, $-1.216, $1.216

I wish we could get him back at a reasonable hit. He's a championship level 3C, no doubt.

He's only a 3C post trade deadline though if he's traded away. No way will he be 3C on whatever team he signs for, nor was he on the team he was traded from. He's a textbook 2C in the NHL.

 

[Bazeek]

You do realize Pominville had more points than Ennis and Foligno combined for a lower combined cap hit right? Pomers was on 0.60PPG. Ennis and Foligno combined scored 0.54PPG (when added together!). And if you think either of them is remotely good defensively you are in for a shocker. I'd take Pomers+random ELC youngster over Ennis and Foligno combined at essentially the same cap any day of the week. Scandella is just a bonus...really nice bonus.

Pominville's had better production and I don't expect Foligno or Ennis to see significant bumps in Minnesota, but it's going to be interesting to see how he does with different line mates.

He was good with Parise and Granlund a few years ago, then fell off that cliff in 2015-2016. He saw a bit of a turn-around around the time Yeo was fired and the Niederreiter-Haula-Pominville line got hot. Niederreiter (our best possession forward) especially seemed to help Pominville, at least in my viewings.

Still, Pominville's been one of those players that can be a contributor even when he feels "invisible" or isn't producing a lot of points. He might work pretty well on a line with some of the younger guys Buffalo (I'm guessing) would like to feed into the line-up over the next year or two. He's canny enough to help cover for rookie mistakes and that kind of thing. He could also be a decent power play option for the Sabres; that's not an opportunity he got much of recently and I'm not sure the Wild ever utilized him well in that situation, but it did help his production when he got the PP minutes.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Pominville's had better production and I don't expect Foligno or Ennis to see significant bumps in Minnesota, but it's going to be interesting to see how he does with different line mates.

He was good with Parise and Granlund a few years ago, then fell off that cliff in 2015-2016. He saw a bit of a turn-around around the time Yeo was fired and the Niederreiter-Haula-Pominville line got hot. Niederreiter (our best possession forward) especially seemed to help Pominville, at least in my viewings.

Still, Pominville's been one of those players that can be a contributor even when he feels "invisible" or isn't producing a lot of points. He might work pretty well on a line with some of the younger guys Buffalo (I'm guessing) would like to feed into the line-up over the next year or two. He's canny enough to help cover for rookie mistakes and that kind of thing. He could also be a decent power play option for the Sabres; that's not an opportunity he got much of recently and I'm not sure the Wild ever utilized him well in that situation, but it did help his production when he got the PP minutes.

Our idea at least on the board is play him with Reinhart as center and maybe another vet or Kane on the left. That should do nicely for a 3rd line

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Poms Buyout 2017-2018

Initial cap hit $5.6, Actual cost $1.25, Savings $1.25, Cap hit $4.350
2018-2019 $5.6, $1.25, $1.25, $1.85
2019-2020 0, $1.25, $-1.25, $1.25
2020-2021, 0 $1.25, $-1.25, $1.25

Ennis Buyout 2017-2018 $4.6, $1.216, $2.433, $2.166
2018-19 $4.6, $1.216, $1.216, $2.433, $2.166
2019-20 0, $1.216, $-1.216, $1.216
2020-21 0, $1.216, $-1.216, $1.216


He's only a 3C post trade deadline though if he's traded away. No way will he be 3C on whatever team he signs for, nor was he on the team he was traded from. He's a textbook 2C in the NHL.

So you only really save 2m this year... Worth losing Scandella for that? Cause Foligno IMO has neutral value at 2.5 mil if you even re-sign him.

 

[Bazeek]

Our idea at least on the board is play him with Reinhart as center and maybe another vet or Kane on the left. That should do nicely for a 3rd line

Could work pretty well. He seems to do well when his linemates are driving the play, and you'd think Kane and Reinhart could do that. 3rd line's probably the best place for him right now.

 

[Bazeek]

So you only really save 2m this year... Worth losing Scandella for that? Cause Foligno IMO has neutral value at 2.5 mil if you even re-sign him.

Yeah, I don't see a buyout happening this offseason so that's probably a wash. Still, Scandella was gone one way or another. If Foligno + 3rd was the best offer out there in terms of freed cap space and filling a need we'd have to fill in free agency anyway, what can you do?

Not that I'm sold on Foligno at $2.5m, by any means.

 

[Tachycineta]

I know I'm biased, but I'm really going to miss Ennis. See the avatar I've had since 2008. I've always wished him well so I hope his concussion days are behind him and that he can return to his productivity of 2+ seasons ago.

 

[Jugitsu]

You do realize Pominville had more points than Ennis and Foligno combined for a lower combined cap hit right? Pomers was on 0.60PPG. Ennis and Foligno combined scored 0.54PPG (when added together!). And if you think either of them is remotely good defensively you are in for a shocker. I'd take Pomers+random ELC youngster over Ennis and Foligno combined at essentially the same cap any day of the week. Scandella is just a bonus...really nice bonus.

I don't care about Pominville's point totals if he doesn't score goals. He's a goal scorer with no other notable skills other than his shot. He was playing a protected role with protected minutes and benefited greatly in Wild's hot streak. Wild was a hot team throughout majority of last season, that was despite of Pominville, not because of him.

But we don't need to debate about this anymore. I'm happy he's gone, you're happy you acquired him. You'll get to see for yourself what kind of a player he has become. If he scores 30+ goals next season, I'm both happy for him and happy for Sabres for the steal.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Coyle starting at 3rd line center doesn't mean he's going to stay there. Ennis can play center, as can JEE. I'd be surprised if one of them doesn't end up getting time in that job. The only way I see Coyle keeping that job instead of 2nd line RW is if both Ennis turns out to be productive as a top 6 winger, and Coyle plays like the monster we know he can be at center. Just one of those two things failing, and he'll end up splitting that 3rd line center time with someone else.

Also Hanzal was a good player for us. You guys were expecting our 3rd line center to be better than 0.65 PPG and nearly 60% on the draw? It wasn't Hanzal that went wrong, it was everyone else.

no, no he cannot

 

[Bazeek]

no, no he cannot

Even if he could Boudreau probably wouldn't have him there over Coyle. And Eriksson-Ek will be there sooner rather than later.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Even if he could Boudreau probably wouldn't have him there over Coyle. And Eriksson-Ek will be there sooner rather than later.

No competent coach should. The only time Ennis has ever played center, Buffalo's other options down the middle were guys like Hodgson and Leino.

 

[TaLoN]

So you only really save 2m this year... Worth losing Scandella for that? Cause Foligno IMO has neutral value at 2.5 mil if you even re-sign him.

Scandella was also moved for cap reasons himself. We're tight against the cap with two major RFA players to try to get signed long term.

We couldn't afford a 5th defenseman making $4+mil anymore, nor could we afford a $5.6 mil 3rd line winger.

We gain $3+mil in cap space combined in the trade, which should provide room enough to get both Granlund and Nino signed, and be able to fill out our 4th line and get a 6th and 7th defenseman.

Foligno is big and physical and at least not without skill, even though he lacks consistency to produce more than he has thus far. He brings an element to our bottom 6 that is much needed.

Ennis is a wash at worst... Not likely bought out this year either, but still saves some cap as already discussed, and if he somehow returns to form pre concussion and pre hernia, he could at least produce at Pominville's level the past year or so.

If not, ltir, saves cap if need be, and buyout next year anyway like we would have with Poms.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Scandella was also moved for cap reasons himself. We're tight against the cap with two major RFA players to try to get signed long term.

We couldn't afford a 5th defenseman making $4+mil anymore, nor could we afford a $5.6 mil 3rd line winger.

We gain $3+mil in cap space combined in the trade, which should provide room enough to get both Granlund and Nino signed, and be able to fill out our 4th line and get a 6th and 7th defenseman.

Foligno is big and physical and at least not without skill, even though he lacks consistency to produce more than he has thus far. He brings an element to our bottom 6 that is much needed.

Ennis is a wash at worst... Not likely bought out this year either, but still saves some cap as already discussed, and if he somehow returns to form pre concussion and pre hernia, he could at least produce at Pominville's level the past year or so.

If not, ltir, saves cap if need be, and buyout next year anyway like we would have with Poms.

No, at worst, we lost 47 points out of our lineup to save a million dollars.