Confirmed with Link: Brunner hits the open market, signs with Devils

[RedWingsNow*]

I've said since the beginning that I wanted Brunner back regardless of the Alfredsson signing. That still doesn't mean I don't think Alfredsson is better and Brunner has shortcomings.

I definitely think some things are being cherry picked on both sides. Once a guy leaves or if a guy gets re-signed people will have their stances adjusted or re-enforced.

If Brunner holds his own pace from last year -- he's worth $3M a year.

If he improves, he's a bargain at $3M a year.

I think if you wipe away the names and look at last year's stats, situations, and the ages of the players --

Very few people would sign Alfie at 40 and lose Brunner.

I don't care about all the Ottawa fans and their alfie worship.. Alfredsson wasn't very good at all last year. He was probably one of the least productive top line/pp guys in the NHL.

He had a good playoffs against Montreal... But whatever.

 

[Heaton]

If Brunner holds his own pace from last year -- he's worth $3M a year.

If he improves, he's a bargain at $3M a year.

I think if you wipe away the names and look at last year's stats, situations, and the ages of the players --

Very few people would sign Alfie at 40 and lose Brunner.

I don't care about all the Ottawa fans and their alfie worship.. Alfredsson wasn't very good at all last year. He was probably one of the least productive top line/pp guys in the NHL.

He had a good playoffs against Montreal... But whatever.

That's the crux of the issue, we're not looking at all of the stats, we're looking at 3 stats. Goals, assists, points. Alfredsson brings much more and if you want to believe that all Ottawa fans are skewed beyond belief and Alfredsson was just some mirage and didn't play the way they're describing, go ahead. But after watching the first two rounds its evident that guys like Alfredsson, St. Louis, Selanne etc... aren't regular 40 year olds just holding on.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

That's the crux of the issue, we're not looking at all of the stats, we're looking at 3 stats. Goals, assists, points. Alfredsson brings much more and if you want to believe that all Ottawa fans are skewed beyond belief and Alfredsson was just some mirage and didn't play the way they're describing, go ahead. But after watching the first two rounds its evident that guys like Alfredsson, St. Louis, Selanne etc... aren't regular 40 year olds just holding on.

I only saw a few Ottawa games in the playoffs and wasn't looking particularly hard at Alfredsson.

But Selanne? Love the guy. But he was nearly invisible in the Ducks-Wings series.
I could live with him at his $2M salary though.

St. Louis -- he's a 2.5 years younger than Alfredsson and playing with the game's best or second best goal scorer.

 

[BinCookin]

Nobody is comparing Brunner to two way guys like Datsyuk or Zetterberg.
If Brunner was a two way 25 goal guy who played defense like those guys, he'd be Marian Hossa.

Comparing him to Hudler is silly. Hudler, a guy who I liked, couldn't skate, which made him a liability as soon as the puck changed directions.
Brunner wasn't bad defensively. He wasn't good. He was your typical offensive forward.

The Red Wings need more than 17 goals from their big UFA signing. We need a goal scorer. I don't know if Alfie can do it anymore.

you are though.

You are saying they all go through scoring slumps.

But if you say Brunner is a goal scorer, and not a two way player.

Then HIS scoring slump is basically the end of his skill level?

 

[McClelland]

So many ifs about Brunner! The org. doesnt think hes worth what hes demanding.

Half a season doesnt get you top dollar, and his slump and defensive issues isnt in favour for him.

The wings wanted a cheaper longer look before they committed to a relative old rookie player who has defensive issues .

 

[RedWingsNow*]

you are though.

You are saying they all go through scoring slumps.

But if you say Brunner is a goal scorer, and not a two way player.

Then HIS scoring slump is basically the end of his skill level?

Brunner was better defensively than he was given credit for. His speed led to takeaways and broken up rushes.
He's not "two way" but he's good enough defensively for a guy who can score at his clip.

Not that this stat means a ton -- but Brunner had 22 takeways. Third on the club. His 20 hits were the same amount as Zetterberg. He showed little hesitation about going to the net to score. Sure, he was weak in the corners. Sure his defense could better.
But strength and experience can help those things.
The one area that's pretty weak, statistically, is shot blocking. 2 blocked shots ...is pretty lousy. But again, Z only had 10. Joakim Andersson, who played a lot of PK time, had just 12.

 

[SoupNazi]

Nobody is comparing Brunner to two way guys like Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

You are.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

You are.

Insightful stuff.
You say I'm comparing Brunner to Datsyuk and Zetterberg -- in a misguided attempt to discredit my point.

I tell you I'm not and explain why I reference the numbers.

You say that I am -- again. You have no facts, so you resort to using cheap techniques to discredit factual arguments

Really good stuff Soup Nazi.

Apparently, pointing out that Brunner was one goal behind Datsyuk and Franzen last year means I am "comparing them"

Apparently pointing out that Zetterberg and Franzen have also had Slumps means i am "comparing" Brunner to Franzen.

I've done comparisons. I've compared Brunner to Alfredsson. I've compared Alfredsson to Iginla. I've compared Alfredsson to Morrow.

I am not comparing Zetterberg to Brunner. I am telling you that right now. You can continue to misrepresent me all you want, SN.

 

[SoupNazi]

Insightful stuff.
You say I'm comparing Brunner to Datsyuk and Zetterberg -- in a misguided attempt to discredit my point.

I tell you I'm not and explain why I reference the numbers.

You say that I am -- again. You have no facts, so you resort to using cheap techniques to discredit factual arguments

Really good stuff Soup Nazi.

Apparently, pointing out that Brunner was one goal behind Datsyuk and Franzen last year means I am "comparing them"

Apparently pointing out that Zetterberg and Franzen have also had Slumps means i am "comparing" Brunner to Franzen.

I've done comparisons. I've compared Brunner to Alfredsson. I've compared Alfredsson to Iginla. I've compared Alfredsson to Morrow.

I am not comparing Zetterberg to Brunner. I am telling you that right now. You can continue to misrepresent me all you want, SN.

Bob, the only thing you've done in this thread is compare Zetterberg and Brunner. Deny it all you want but everyone can see it.

Not that this stat means a ton -- but Brunner had 22 takeways. Third on the club. His 20 hits were the same amount as Zetterberg. He showed little hesitation about going to the net to score. Sure, he was weak in the corners. Sure his defense could better.
But strength and experience can help those things.
The one area that's pretty weak, statistically, is shot blocking. 2 blocked shots ...is pretty lousy. But again, Z only had 10. Joakim Andersson, who played a lot of PK time, had just 12.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Bob, the only thing you've done in this thread is compare Zetterberg and Brunner. Deny it all you want but everyone can see it.

Oh please.
Showing were someone ranks in team stats isn't a comparison.

You know it. You're spinning to change the subject.

 

[SoupNazi]

Oh please.
Showing were someone ranks in team stats isn't a comparison.

You know it. You're spinning to change the subject.

You're arguing semantics. I'm spinning nothing.

 

[Bench]

Very few people would sign Alfie at 40 and lose Brunner.

That's because there's only 30 NHL GMs.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

You're arguing semantics. I'm spinning nothing.

I'm pointing out what Brunner contributes to the team. I'm also comparing him to Filppula and Franzen and Abdelkader and Miller and Toootoo -- when I say he was one goal behind the team leader.

But you don't say that because you want to discredit my point by trying to make any driveby readers think I'm comparing Z and Brunner - which is obviously ridiculous.

When it comes to the slump, I chose Zetterberg because I knew that he slumped at the same time as Brunner.
I chose Franzen because I remembered he went through a terribly long slump two years ago.

Your point is dishonest. You know it. And yet you continue to argue it.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

That's because there's only 30 NHL GMs.

Did you catch that rain storm in Arkansas the other weeK? Nasty stuff.

 

[SoupNazi]

I'm pointing out what Brunner contributes to the team. I'm also comparing him to Filppula and Franzen and Abdelkader and Miller and Toootoo -- when I say he was one goal behind the team leader.

But you don't say that because you want to discredit my point by trying to make any driveby readers think I'm comparing Z and Brunner - which is obviously ridiculous.

When it comes to the slump, I chose Zetterberg because I knew that he slumped at the same time as Brunner.
I chose Franzen because I remembered he went through a terribly long slump two years ago.

Your point is dishonest. You know it. And yet you continue to argue it.

No, it's really not. No driveby readers or in-depth readers are blind to what you're doing. You're comparing the two of them.

My point is no more dishonest than yours. I'm going to continue arguing it because my point is still the same - Brunner is extremely replaceable.

 

[BinCookin]

You're arguing semantics. I'm spinning nothing.

I have to agree with SoupNazi here.

I get what your trying to say... Brunner is good 12 Goals, 14 Assists on a 44 games played is 0.6PPG.

Thats a good player.

You are trying to say he scores at a similar pace with Zetterberg (comparing within team stats is a comparison). But lets not slice hairs.

You wish we kept Brunner. I wish the same. I agree with you. All i asked was if you are going to compare Brunner to TEAM STATS... then include assists.

Else Abdelkader is a major offensive threat of ours... but we all know he isnt.

Brunner you dont have to hide his assists... he actually has some.

You compared vs Alfredsson, but he has like 40-50 assists in most of those 20 goal years.

Infact, lifetime stats on D and Z are comparable to Alfie. Alfie may be old, but its like adding a third D and Z for free. (yes a 4 year older Z... we are seeing his future).

I am ok with Alfie's addition...

Sadly, we dont really have the space for Sammy, Bert, Tootoo, Eaves.... we have too many players making between 1 and 3 million on the team at the forward position. If we wanted to keep Brunner, he had to make 1.5 million and then we can jettison Tootoo for him (maybe even 1.9 million) to keep it even.

Brunner apparently wants too much money.

That is the issue.

The reason people think he wants so much money is helenstjames and khan have said so.
That basically comes from management.

You disagree, and say he is worth 3 million. I would love to jettison Samuelsson to fit in Brunner. But its very possible that Samuelsson will outscore Brunner this year.

Yes Brunner is younger.

Its a debate.
But the choices are made.

Just stop making it seem like Brunner is the best player ever, or Alfie is the worst. I know you are arguing about what we should have done with the cap space. NO one is saying Brunner is garbage. Just that he is demanding too much with too little history. Can you appreciate that that reason alone might get a POTENTIAL 20 goal scorer to be looked over for a contract in a year the salary cap is going down??

 

[BinCookin]

St. Louis -- he's a 2.5 years younger than Alfredsson and playing with the game's best or second best goal scorer.

I would Argue that St.Louis is CREATING the games best or 2nd best goal scorer.

St.Louis is great... STILL!

 

[Bench]

Brunner vs. Alfie is soooo last month. I'm all about Filppula vs. Brunner now.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

I have to agree with SoupNazi here.

I get what your trying to say... Brunner is good 12 Goals, 14 Assists on a 44 games played is 0.6PPG.

Thats a good player.

You are trying to say he scores at a similar pace with Zetterberg (comparing within team stats is a comparison). But lets not slice hairs.

You wish we kept Brunner. I wish the same. I agree with you. All i asked was if you are going to compare Brunner to TEAM STATS... then include assists.

Else Abdelkader is a major offensive threat of ours... but we all know he isnt.

Brunner you dont have to hide his assists... he actually has some.

You compared vs Alfredsson, but he has like 40-50 assists in most of those 20 goal years.

Infact, lifetime stats on D and Z are comparable to Alfie. Alfie may be old, but its like adding a third D and Z for free. (yes a 4 year older Z... we are seeing his future).

I am ok with Alfie's addition...

Sadly, we dont really have the space for Sammy, Bert, Tootoo, Eaves.... we have too many players making between 1 and 3 million on the team at the forward position. If we wanted to keep Brunner, he had to make 1.5 million and then we can jettison Tootoo for him (maybe even 1.9 million) to keep it even.

Brunner apparently wants too much money.

That is the issue.

The reason people think he wants so much money is helenstjames and khan have said so.
That basically comes from management.

You disagree, and say he is worth 3 million. I would love to jettison Samuelsson to fit in Brunner. But its very possible that Samuelsson will outscore Brunner this year.

Yes Brunner is younger.

Its a debate.
But the choices are made.

Just stop making it seem like Brunner is the best player ever, or Alfie is the worst. I know you are arguing about what we should have done with the cap space. NO one is saying Brunner is garbage. Just that he is demanding too much with too little history. Can you appreciate that that reason alone might get a POTENTIAL 20 goal scorer to be looked over for a contract in a year the salary cap is going down??

Look, man.
What do I get out of comparing Brunner directly with Zetterberg? Nothing.

It doesn't help my point. I don't BELIEVE Brunner is at Zetterberg's level.

I am not comparing the two.

So you can tell me what I am doing -- all you want.

I know what I am saying. I know what I believe. I know what I am expressing.

Any attempt by you our Soupnazi to say that I believe Brunner is somehow comparable to Zetterberg -- is inaccurate at best -- dishonest at best.

If I point out that Brunner was one goal behind the team leader (counting playoffs) that is not a comparison with Zetterberg.

It is stating Brunner's relative importance to the team.
Brunner had tangible contributuons to the team last year.

Finishing one goal behind the team leaders means something.
You can talk about assists -- still Brunner and Alfredsson finished tied with 26 points. Despite Brunner playing less games and far less minutes.

Brunner's 35 points (including playoffs)

Here's the ranking of Red Wings forward in Points -- including playoffs
Zetterberg 60
Datsyuk 58
Franzen 37
Brunner 35
Cleary 25
Filppula 23

So factoring assists, Brunner was still an important contributor to the team.
I choose goals because that's what this team needs. Goal scorers.

I never believed Brunner was a goal-every-other-game type of talent like some Wings fans did last winter, when he had 10 goals in 19 games
But when you factor in the hot streak, the cold streak, the playoffs, I think we got a good sense of his abilities.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

I would Argue that St.Louis is CREATING the games best or 2nd best goal scorer.

St.Louis is great... STILL!

You can argue that if you want.
But notice what happened to St. Louis' stats once Stamkos emerged as a star?

St Louis is still great. But his clock is ticking too.

 

[SoupNazi]

Brunner vs. Alfie is soooo last month. I'm all about Filppula vs. Brunner now.

I think it should be Filppula vs. Alfie.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

TO BOB for a laugh

Here's the ranking of Red Wings forward in Points -- including playoffs
Zetterberg 60
Datsyuk 58
Franzen 37
Brunner 35
Cleary 25
Filppula 23

Well now we lost the bottom three and have abdelkader lol so ummm lets hope that bertuzzi can return to form or tatar or nyquist can step up

If not that is a lot o production lost. We did add Weiss 4 points and a washed up alfie at 36 points though

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Brunner vs. Alfie is soooo last month. I'm all about Filppula vs. Brunner now.

I think we should make a Brunner vs. Hossa thread. Since it seems like Brunner is going to be the new Hossa until Hossa does something crazy or Brunner moves to Europe or something.

Seems like the only logical choice.

 

[we like our team*]

hudler vs. filppula vs. hossa vs. alfredsson

rage in the cage
only one comes out alive
IT'S GOIN DOWN

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Brunner vs. Alfie is soooo last month. I'm all about Filppula vs. Brunner now.

Daniel Afredsson is soooooooo 2006.