Brooklyn/Belmont Arena Discussion 2018-19

[The Lighthouse]

Without Belmont, goodbye Isles

By Randi F. Marshall @randimarshall

"Most Isles fans and observers are familiar with the team’s past money problems. They know that without a successful home, it’s a lot harder for the team to invest in itself, attract talent and build a Stanley Cup contender.

Enter Belmont. The planned new arena, plus the rest of the development, could give the Islanders its first solid financial footing, while offering the comforts of home ice that fans love about the Coliseum. And, in turn, the arena, when combined with the hotel and retail village, could give the region its own economically vibrant destination with jobs, added tax revenue, and new visitors ready to spend money in the area.

The anti-corporatist cloud that mushroomed during the Amazon debate isn’t going away. So, there’s little doubt that pushback on the Belmont project will continue, not just on traffic and transit, but also on planned tax exemptions and payments in lieu of taxes. State officials and the developers have to be prepared for that, and must address concerns.

But there’s also little doubt that if the Amazon opposition spreads to major projects like Belmont and beyond, the Islanders’ future isn’t the only thing at stake. The Island’s economic future is, too."

Marshall: Without Belmont, goodbye Isles

 

[BMOK33]

Without Belmont, goodbye Isles

By Randi F. Marshall @randimarshall

"Most Isles fans and observers are familiar with the team’s past money problems. They know that without a successful home, it’s a lot harder for the team to invest in itself, attract talent and build a Stanley Cup contender.

Enter Belmont. The planned new arena, plus the rest of the development, could give the Islanders its first solid financial footing, while offering the comforts of home ice that fans love about the Coliseum. And, in turn, the arena, when combined with the hotel and retail village, could give the region its own economically vibrant destination with jobs, added tax revenue, and new visitors ready to spend money in the area.
The anti-corporatist cloud that mushroomed during the Amazon debate isn’t going away. So, there’s little doubt that pushback on the Belmont project will continue, not just on traffic and transit, but also on planned tax exemptions and payments in lieu of taxes. State officials and the developers have to be prepared for that, and must address concerns.

But there’s also little doubt that if the Amazon opposition spreads to major projects like Belmont and beyond, the Islanders’ future isn’t the only thing at stake. The Island’s economic future is, too."

Marshall: Without Belmont, goodbye Isles

I’m pretty sure folks like AOC among others etc. etc do not care Belmont enough to oppose it to the degree they did Amazon. Amazon is like the Golden State Warriors and Belmont is like a WNBA team

 

[The Lighthouse]

I’m pretty sure folks like AOC among others etc. etc do not care Belmont enough to oppose it to the degree they did Amazon. Amazon is like the Golden State Warriors and Belmont is like a WNBA team

I'd be really surprised if she got involved - it's not in her jurisdiction at all. Agreed that I don't think you'll see the same players throw their weight against it.

 

[doublechili]

I’m pretty sure folks like AOC among others etc. etc do not care Belmont enough to oppose it to the degree they did Amazon. Amazon is like the Golden State Warriors and Belmont is like a WNBA team

I'm hoping that crowd lays low now after kinda embarrassing themselves with the apparent misunderstanding of how tax incentives work re: Amazon. Maybe in a strange way the Amazon thing works to our advantage.

I must say, the whole political aspect of this is fascinating to me, or as Marshall put it:

"The anti-corporatist cloud that mushroomed during the Amazon debate isn’t going away. So, there’s little doubt that pushback on the Belmont project will continue, not just on traffic and transit, but also on planned tax exemptions and payments in lieu of taxes. State officials and the developers have to be prepared for that, and must address concerns. But there’s also little doubt that if the Amazon opposition spreads to major projects like Belmont and beyond, the Islanders’ future isn’t the only thing at stake. The Island’s economic future is, too."

Interesting angle, and last I checked Randi Marshall doesn't work for Fox News! So, maybe extending the environmental consultants for another year is just their way of covering themselves and keeping the opposition constrained within the context of the environmental review process. Cross the T's and dot the I's and keep it as an administrative process rather than a public/media circus. Probably the smart play.

 

[The Lighthouse]

So, maybe extending the environmental consultants for another year is just their way of covering themselves and keeping the opposition constrained within the context of the environmental review process. Cross the T's and dot the I's and keep it as an administrative process rather than a public/media circus. Probably the smart play.

It absolutely is. If you're going to attack this thing, you're going to hope that the State botched something procedurally. You're going to attack the process: were enough hearings held, did the State adequately consider public comments, was the selection process proper? That's a primary method of attack for a legal challenge.

 

[Dutch Frost]

Look, I am pro Brooklyn. I was hoping a deal can be made in place and then in 5-10 yrs they toss in money for a full renovation. I am happy that Belmont went with the Islanders cause it keeps them in NY. However if this plan fails, this will be the 3rd time that Nassau County screwed the New York Islanders.

 

[periferal]

Anyone notice this nugget from the LIBN article today:


"Elected officials have said that creating full-time train service to Belmont’s Long Island Rail Road station should be a prerequisite to building the arena development.

The Nassau County Village Officials Association recently passed a resolution that any approval of the Belmont project must be conditioned on the requirement of a full-time station at Belmont and that the “developer be required to bear and pay all costs associated with the upgrade of the station, without the expenditure of public resources (tax revenue, bond proceeds or otherwise) to rebuild said station.”


This has to be written wrong as there's almost zero chance of turning Belmont into a full-time LIRR station in the next few years at best...And literally ZERO chance for "the developer be required to bear and pay all costs associated with the upgrade of the station."

What am I missing here?

https://libn.com/2019/02/21/belmont-park-arena-project-to-be-delayed/?utm_content=buffera7330&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

 

[nyscene]

Anyone notice this nugget from the LIBN article today:


"Elected officials have said that creating full-time train service to Belmont’s Long Island Rail Road station should be a prerequisite to building the arena development.

The Nassau County Village Officials Association recently passed a resolution that any approval of the Belmont project must be conditioned on the requirement of a full-time station at Belmont and that the “developer be required to bear and pay all costs associated with the upgrade of the station, without the expenditure of public resources (tax revenue, bond proceeds or otherwise) to rebuild said station.”


This has to be written wrong as there's almost zero chance of turning Belmont into a full-time LIRR station in the next few years at best...And literally ZERO chance for "the developer be required to bear and pay all costs associated with the upgrade of the station."

What am I missing here?

https://libn.com/2019/02/21/belmont-park-arena-project-to-be-delayed/?utm_content=buffera7330&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Nothing. It’s mayors of villages saying “hey, we really want you guys to pay for trains!” but they actually have no say.

 

[periferal]

Nothing. It’s mayors of villages saying “hey, we really want you guys to pay for trains!” but they actually have no say.

So the resolution is just a "photo op" and literally has zero weight?

 

[nyscene]

So the resolution is just a "photo op" and literally has zero weight?

Pretty much. I mean, they have some political clout but the actual declaration isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on.

 

[The Lighthouse]

Yeah, it's similar to congressional resolutions "condemning ______." No force behind them, just a show of opinion.

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

It was never going to be May, no matter what Ledecky said. The Belmont Stakes is June 8th. It's Belmont's biggest day of the year and nothing was going to be allowed to get in the way of that.

I’ve mentioned I have some racing connections and this is spot on they weren’t doing anything before the Belmont stakes, that whole weekend is enormous. The biggest indicator I was told July ground breaking is the Saratoga meeting being changed. They’d have two months of work before Belmont opens up again for a modified racing schedule. NYRA hasn’t even released the fall meet schedule because even they don’t know how much they can race we could see just a weekend racing schedule for a while. Don’t underestimate NYRA in this also, remodeling Belmont is huge to aid them in obtaining breeders cup again which was Kay’s desire before he got himself canned.

 

[Tres Peleches]

Wrong thread

 

[MJF]

I’ve mentioned I have some racing connections and this is spot on they weren’t doing anything before the Belmont stakes, that whole weekend is enormous. The biggest indicator I was told July ground breaking is the Saratoga meeting being changed. They’d have two months of work before Belmont opens up again for a modified racing schedule. NYRA hasn’t even released the fall meet schedule because even they don’t know how much they can race we could see just a weekend racing schedule for a while. Don’t underestimate NYRA in this also, remodeling Belmont is huge to aid them in obtaining breeders cup again which was Kay’s desire before he got himself canned.

Your last point about getting the Breeder’s Cup is one of the main reasons for getting lights installed. Night racing would be on a limited basis but a big time event like Breeder’s Cup weekend means a massive amount of money going through NYRA.

 

[Costigan77]

Look, I am pro Brooklyn. I was hoping a deal can be made in place and then in 5-10 yrs they toss in money for a full renovation. I am happy that Belmont went with the Islanders cause it keeps them in NY. However if this plan fails, this will be the 3rd time that Nassau County screwed the New York Islanders.

This is state land. Nassau County politics/politicians have 0 to do with this

 

[Islesfan22]

Staple said in a podcast recently there expected to start building sometime late Spring.

 

[Costigan77]

After the Amazon debacle, I'm more than confident that this gets done. Late spring/summer, who gives an F. Shovel in and I'll relax. Throw another 5 mill at the coliseum to open the other suites and unclog the cemented toilets, and play every game there. Again, I've said it before, Baumbach and Randi Marshall are chicken littles at times. We really do need to consider the source

 

[Islesfan22]

I’m far from an expert in the Amazon thing but it seems like there is a divide in the Democrat Party on the Amazon deal. De blasio Cuomo really wanted it done while Cortez I guess was the main opposition. I doubt this has any effect on the Belmont deal but who knows with how dirty politics is nothing will surprise me.

 

[doublechili]

I’m far from an expert in the Amazon thing but it seems like there is a divide in the Democrat Party on the Amazon deal. De blasio Cuomo really wanted it done while Cortez I guess was the main opposition. I doubt this has any effect on the Belmont deal but who knows with how dirty politics is nothing will surprise me.

If she killed the project, does that make her Cortez the Killer?

 

[The Lighthouse]

After the Amazon debacle, I'm more than confident that this gets done. Late spring/summer, who gives an F. Shovel in and I'll relax. Throw another 5 mill at the coliseum to open the other suites and unclog the cemented toilets, and play every game there. Again, I've said it before, Baumbach and Randi Marshall are chicken littles at times. We really do need to understand the source

Baumbach annoys me because every time he Tweets about Belmont, he chooses to put some alarmist spin on some mundane, predictable news. Islanders fans with weak nerves then go nuts, and after some time he'll concede that the project is doing fine.

Randi was good yesterday, emphasized that what came out of LIBN was not newsworthy and is likely nothing more than normal delay. It seems she got very invested in pushing back against the Amazon opposition and wrote her opinion piece yesterday as a warning that we can't let political opportunism destroy every possible development.

 

[Costigan77]

I’m far from an expert in the Amazon thing but it seems like there is a divide in the Democrat Party on the Amazon deal. De blasio Cuomo really wanted it done while Cortez I guess was the main opposition. I doubt this has any effect on the Belmont deal but who knows with how dirty politics is nothing will surprise me.

The main opposition was the upper class/manhattanites who thought it was their civic duty to ensure the neighborhood doesn't become gentrified, despite the fact that the people who live in the area, small business owners, and the african american and hispanic community who supported it somewhere from 70-80%.

Makes me feel that outsiders will get involved with this last minute and could cause an issue. It isn't AOC's district nor even close, but I could see her causing issues as a guest speaker or something.

 

[saintunspecified]

I'd be really surprised if she got involved - it's not in her jurisdiction at all. Agreed that I don't think you'll see the same players throw their weight against it.

It had zero to do with AOC. It had everything to do with City Council.

 

[The Lighthouse]

It had zero to do with AOC. It had everything to do with City Council.

Yes, this is right.

 

[saintunspecified]

The main opposition was the upper class/manhattanites who thought it was their civic duty to ensure the neighborhood doesn't become gentrified, despite the fact that the people who live in the area, small business owners, and the african american and hispanic community who supported it somewhere from 70-80%.

The polling isn't reliable. There was polling from back in December that varied a ton from the Siena polls you cited. There simply wasn't enough polling.

And 2002 wants its analysis back. The ship has long sailed wrt gentrification in LIC and Astoria. Looong sailed.

 

[Costigan77]

Baumbach annoys me because every time he Tweets about Belmont, he chooses to put some alarmist spin on some mundane, predictable news. Islanders fans with weak nerves then go nuts, and after some time he'll concede that the project is doing fine.

Randi was good yesterday, emphasized that what came out of LIBN was not newsworthy and is likely nothing more than normal delay. It seems she got very invested in pushing back against the Amazon opposition and wrote her opinion piece yesterday as a warning that we can't let political opportunism destroy every possible development.

Completely agree with Randi's take on the opposition. Just saying right before the announcement in December of 2017--she was stating that it was 50/50. Like two days before. Baumbach was saying 2nd quarter of 2018 they should know and the soccer stadium was looked as being better for the community