Brooklyn/Belmont Arena Discussion 2018-19 Pt. II

[periferal]

Some strange wording in this article that isn't so clear what's being planned/discussed.




Full-time LIRR station under study for Belmont Park, sources say

The new station would allow people traveling from the east to take the train directly to Belmont.

Pictured is an aerial view of the parking lot in Belmont Park where the new arena will be constructed. The location is key as it is adjacent to the newly renovated Belmont Park LIRR station. Photo Credit: Office of Governor Andrew M. Cuo/Kevin P. Coughlin/Office of Governor Andrew M. Cuomo

By Jim Baumbach[email protected] @jimbaumbachUpdated April 3, 2019 7:00 PM


The state agency overseeing the Islanders’ $1.2 billion arena project at Belmont Park is expanding its environmental review to study the possibility of adding a full-time Long Island Rail Road station, sources said.

The new station would be attached to the LIRR’s main line, just north of Belmont Park, and would allow people traveling from the east to take the train directly to Belmont.

The Belmont Park station operates only during horse racing season and is a spur off the main line, accessible only from Jamaica. Riders from the east must go to Jamaica and transfer to a train to Belmont.

 

[doublechili]

Well they tried to "expose" them, but since they couldn't complete the Sherlock Holmes missing of getting specific names, they just dismissed the group a bit.

You have to believe that some level of Barclays/Yormark/new Nets owner is behind this. Ain't no one essentially throwing $650,000 into a well unless they are wealthy as hell and TOTALLY AGAINST Belmont. That can only be so many people.

My guess is Barclays too. $650k is a lot of dough. There has to be a huge financial incentive to pour that much money into an effort that is far from guaranteed to work. It would have to be for something where the stakes are really high - like the MSG/Belmont versus Barclays/NVMC competition for events.

 

[doublechili]

Some strange wording in this article that isn't so clear what's being planned/discussed.




Full-time LIRR station under study for Belmont Park, sources say

The new station would allow people traveling from the east to take the train directly to Belmont.

Pictured is an aerial view of the parking lot in Belmont Park where the new arena will be constructed. The location is key as it is adjacent to the newly renovated Belmont Park LIRR station. Photo Credit: Office of Governor Andrew M. Cuo/Kevin P. Coughlin/Office of Governor Andrew M. Cuomo

By Jim Baumbach[email protected] @jimbaumbachUpdated April 3, 2019 7:00 PM


The state agency overseeing the Islanders’ $1.2 billion arena project at Belmont Park is expanding its environmental review to study the possibility of adding a full-time Long Island Rail Road station, sources said.

The new station would be attached to the LIRR’s main line, just north of Belmont Park, and would allow people traveling from the east to take the train directly to Belmont.

The Belmont Park station operates only during horse racing season and is a spur off the main line, accessible only from Jamaica. Riders from the east must go to Jamaica and transfer to a train to Belmont.

If I understand correctly, they seem to be talking about the possibility of adding a new station - different than the existing station at Belmont Park. I don't understand whether that means they'd keep both, or if they'd just scrap the existing one (creating more development space, I guess). This next part makes it seem like both stay? And then train passengers are shuttled to the arena:

"The new LIRR station under consideration would provide service in addition to the extra trains already committed to servicing the Belmont Park station, sources said.
The sources said that because the LIRR Main Line is located north of Belmont, most people who would arrive at a new station likely would take a shuttle bus to the arena, which will be located on the southwest side of the racetrack. Shuttle buses already are planned for those who park in the north lots."

 

[periferal]

If I understand correctly, they seem to be talking about the possibility of adding a new station - different than the existing station at Belmont Park. I don't understand whether that means they'd keep both, or if they'd just scrap the existing one (creating more development space, I guess). This next part makes it seem like both stay? And then train passengers are shuttled to the arena:

"The new LIRR station under consideration would provide service in addition to the extra trains already committed to servicing the Belmont Park station, sources said.
The sources said that because the LIRR Main Line is located north of Belmont, most people who would arrive at a new station likely would take a shuttle bus to the arena, which will be located on the southwest side of the racetrack. Shuttle buses already are planned for those who park in the north lots."

Yeah - Rereading it I think you are correct.

What about this idea...

Create a brand new "Belmont LIRR Station" on the existing LIRR track between Queens Village and Bellrose. Then create a transfer to a "People Mover" or light rail shuttling people back and forth between the new Belmont LIRR station and the old one - Like a tiny version of getting off the LIRR in Jamaica and then getting on the AirTrain to JFK.

See the attached photo below as an illustration. I think this might be the easiest of all solutions.

 

[Newsworthy]

A train directly to Belmont makes total sense.

 

[MJF]

If I understand correctly, they seem to be talking about the possibility of adding a new station - different than the existing station at Belmont Park. I don't understand whether that means they'd keep both, or if they'd just scrap the existing one (creating more development space, I guess). This next part makes it seem like both stay? And then train passengers are shuttled to the arena:

"The new LIRR station under consideration would provide service in addition to the extra trains already committed to servicing the Belmont Park station, sources said.
The sources said that because the LIRR Main Line is located north of Belmont, most people who would arrive at a new station likely would take a shuttle bus to the arena, which will be located on the southwest side of the racetrack. Shuttle buses already are planned for those who park in the north lots."

They are talking about adding a station on the main line while keeping the spur track.

I’ll be shocked if they build the station on the main line. With QV and Bellerose stations so close to each other I never expected them to consider building another station in between.

 

[Steve55]

Some strange wording in this article that isn't so clear what's being planned/discussed.




Full-time LIRR station under study for Belmont Park, sources say

The new station would allow people traveling from the east to take the train directly to Belmont.

Pictured is an aerial view of the parking lot in Belmont Park where the new arena will be constructed. The location is key as it is adjacent to the newly renovated Belmont Park LIRR station. Photo Credit: Office of Governor Andrew M. Cuo/Kevin P. Coughlin/Office of Governor Andrew M. Cuomo

By Jim Baumbach[email protected] @jimbaumbachUpdated April 3, 2019 7:00 PM


The state agency overseeing the Islanders’ $1.2 billion arena project at Belmont Park is expanding its environmental review to study the possibility of adding a full-time Long Island Rail Road station, sources said.

The new station would be attached to the LIRR’s main line, just north of Belmont Park, and would allow people traveling from the east to take the train directly to Belmont.

The Belmont Park station operates only during horse racing season and is a spur off the main line, accessible only from Jamaica. Riders from the east must go to Jamaica and transfer to a train to Belmont.

If I understand correctly, they seem to be talking about the possibility of adding a new station - different than the existing station at Belmont Park. I don't understand whether that means they'd keep both, or if they'd just scrap the existing one (creating more development space, I guess). This next part makes it seem like both stay? And then train passengers are shuttled to the arena:

"The new LIRR station under consideration would provide service in addition to the extra trains already committed to servicing the Belmont Park station, sources said.
The sources said that because the LIRR Main Line is located north of Belmont, most people who would arrive at a new station likely would take a shuttle bus to the arena, which will be located on the southwest side of the racetrack. Shuttle buses already are planned for those who park in the north lots."

I would imagine a new station on the Main Line will be between Belmont Park and Superior Road, just south of the empty lot west of homes in Bellerose Terrace, based on Google maps. Also I think shuttle buses should have multiple stops on north lot, given its size.

 

[crasherino]

My ferverant hope is that one day soon I open this thread and there is a report about an upcoming groundbreaking with our long term signed Captain spearheading it.

If we are in dream territory, bringing the Stanley Cup to the ground breaking would be cool too. I’m beginning to wonder which will happen first.

 

[doublechili]

Yeah - Rereading it I think you are correct.

What about this idea...

Create a brand new "Belmont LIRR Station" on the existing LIRR track between Queens Village and Bellrose. Then create a transfer to a "People Mover" or light rail shuttling people back and forth between the new Belmont LIRR station and the old one - Like a tiny version of getting off the LIRR in Jamaica and then getting on the AirTrain to JFK.

See the attached photo below as an illustration. I think this might be the easiest of all solutions.

I think that location is one of the possibilities. And the people mover on rails is a neat idea. However buses would be a lot cheaper and just as effective. As Steve55 posted they might also be looking at the other location at the north end of the parking lots. They could then use the same shuttle bus system for train and car people from the north lot. And there would be plenty of room for commuter parking during the week with easy access via Belmont Park Road. There's open space on the north side of the tracks for a platform and access (looks like just a huge warehouse or something at the other location north of the tracks). And I wonder if they may want to keep the existing station in use if nothing else than for the 200,000 people coming for the big race every year (which I assume is the main use of the existing station now)?

 

[Costigan77]

My guess is Barclays too. $650k is a lot of dough. There has to be a huge financial incentive to pour that much money into an effort that is far from guaranteed to work. It would have to be for something where the stakes are really high - like the MSG/Belmont versus Barclays/NVMC competition for events.

$650k is not a lot of dough to fight a project of this magnitude.

 

[WagnerGrad96]

If I understand correctly, they seem to be talking about the possibility of adding a new station - different than the existing station at Belmont Park. I don't understand whether that means they'd keep both, or if they'd just scrap the existing one (creating more development space, I guess). This next part makes it seem like both stay? And then train passengers are shuttled to the arena:

What I read today seemed to indicate that the station would be right next to the arena. There HAS to be access from the East to justify putting any money into it. That way you could easily get to it from the Ronkonkoma line AND the Babylon line (from Babylon and east) via the spur from Babylon to Bethpage.

Even if they don't use the spur, it's not that long of a drive to get to a station from the Ronkonkoma line. For example. I am 5 mins from the Babylon station but just 10 - 15 from the Deer Park station.

 

[dcv2002]

I thought I saw something on my FaceBook feed, that none of the $650k that was mentioned came from anywhere near Long Island. I think it was California and/or Virginia?

 

[SI]

Yeah - Rereading it I think you are correct.

What about this idea...

Create a brand new "Belmont LIRR Station" on the existing LIRR track between Queens Village and Bellrose. Then create a transfer to a "People Mover" or light rail shuttling people back and forth between the new Belmont LIRR station and the old one - Like a tiny version of getting off the LIRR in Jamaica and then getting on the AirTrain to JFK.

See the attached photo below as an illustration. I think this might be the easiest of all solutions.

Love this idea.

New station between QV and Bellrose, then converting the spur line to a light rail system? Or keeping the spur line and building a light rail adjacent to the spur line?

 

[doublechili]

$650k is not a lot of dough to fight a project of this magnitude.

It's a lot of dough for a community group to scratch together. It's a lot of dough for something that's not a guarantee or maybe even 50/50 to be successful. All I'm saying is that whoever is bankrolling this has a big financial incentive. And that makes me think of the battle between arena operators.

 

[beach]

Floral Park and Bellerose residents are going to lose their $h#t with this proposal. The elementary school is right there and the station would border a very nice residential area. Any shuttle/light rail would likely trace the outline of the school/residential area (I used to live in FP). I think they're playing with fire.

 

[Costigan77]

It's a lot of dough for a community group to scratch together. It's a lot of dough for something that's not a guarantee or maybe even 50/50 to be successful. All I'm saying is that whoever is bankrolling this has a big financial incentive. And that makes me think of the battle between arena operators.

It’s Not a community group. It’s a PR firm run buy Pataki’s former chief of staff. This is merely an anti Cuomo campaign. Tammie Williams i believe is quoted as saying she has nothing to do with the group nor will.

 

[SI]

Apologies if I am uploading these images incorrectly.

The wider shot shows the distance between QV and Bellerose and the spur line that runs off that. From the image it looks as if the spur line towards Bellerose is inactive. I would assume the Triangle area is where the Belmont full station would sit.
There is quite a distance from that to the school.

But maybe a Light Rail is not necessary and a simple shuttle train that shoots to Belmont.

Maybe a Light Rail System can run along the Cross Island

 

[gbislander]

Apologies if I am uploading these images incorrectly.

The wider shot shows the distance between QV and Bellerose and the spur line that runs off that. From the image it looks as if the spur line towards Bellerose is inactive. I would assume the Triangle area is where the Belmont full station would sit.
There is quite a distance from that to the school.

But maybe a Light Rail is not necessary and a simple shuttle train that shoots to Belmont.

Maybe a Light Rail System can run along the Cross Island

Agreed. That's probably one the spots they are looking at and are seeing if they can use the spur for a train shuttle to bring you down to the existing Belmont Station, which would be right next to the arena. And yes, it is not close to the school at all. People have to stop using the school as an excuse to stop the building of this arena or even using it to not allow the parking of cars in the freaking North parking lot. I mean, imagine if today there was no racetrack and it was just a huge empty field that NY State owned. NY State then proposes to build a racetrack and parking lots for the site. The people of Floral Park would say, "No, you can't build that because it's near a school." It's crazy.

 

[doublechili]

It’s Not a community group. It’s a PR firm run buy Pataki’s former chief of staff. This is merely an anti Cuomo campaign. Tammie Williams i believe is quoted as saying she has nothing to do with the group nor will.

Michael McKeon, Pataki's former chief of staff, has been a Cuomo supporter. He headed Republicans for Andrew Cuomo during his election and re-election campaigns. And despite what the article said, I don't see that McKeon is tied to the Hollywood PR firm involved (The Crux Group), unless the two marketing firms work together on a project? The Crux Group did work for Obama's '08 and'12 election campaigns according to their website. So not sure what politics is involved here, if any. Again, $650k is a LOT to sink into a community group to serve as a front. Anyway, I stand by my original point that it's got to be something big, whatever it is.

 

[MJF]

It’s Not a community group. It’s a PR firm run buy Pataki’s former chief of staff. This is merely an anti Cuomo campaign. Tammie Williams i believe is quoted as saying she has nothing to do with the group nor will.

But she doesn’t mind hitching her wagon to them for their common goal.

 

[beach]

Agreed. That's probably one the spots they are looking at and are seeing if they can use the spur for a train shuttle to bring you down to the existing Belmont Station, which would be right next to the arena. And yes, it is not close to the school at all. People have to stop using the school as an excuse to stop the building of this arena or even using it to not allow the parking of cars in the freaking North parking lot. I mean, imagine if today there was no racetrack and it was just a huge empty field that NY State owned. NY State then proposes to build a racetrack and parking lots for the site. The people of Floral Park would say, "No, you can't build that because it's near a school." It's crazy.

If it's the spot just west of the Cross Island, then I agree with you. But, if they try and build east of the Cross Island, at the main line right where Belmont Park Road is, that will generate massive protest.

 

[MJF]

For anyone who’s questioning the retail village aspect of this project, I get whay Scort Malkin hopes to achieve.

I’m walking around Sawgrass Mills Mall now, across the street from the arena. Haven’t come across many people who speak English here. One of the clerks in the store said the majority of the shoppers here either fly into Miami from South America or transplanted here, shop and ship things back to South America because it’s so much cheaper here. This is the kind of demographic Malkin hopes to atteract to Belmont. Foreigners who will shop here and send their purchases home. Believe me, retail here isn’t dead. The mall is crowded now.

 

[periferal]

For anyone who’s questioning the retail village aspect of this project, I get whay Scort Malkin hopes to achieve.

I’m walking around Sawgrass Molls Mall now, across the street from the arena. Haven’t come across many people who speak English here. One of the clerks in the store said the majority of the shoppers here either fly into Miami from South America or transplanted here, shop and ship things back to South America because it’s so much cheaper here. This is the kind of demographic Malkin hopes to atteract to Belmont. Foreigners who will shop here and send their purchases home. Believe me, retail here isn’t dead. The mall is crowded now.

And that mall is "middle of the road" compared to the shops Malkin usually puts in his hi-end shopping plazas.

 

[periferal]

Review: Group opposed to new Islanders arena is not from NY

ELMONT - A group opposed to a plan to build a new arena for the New York Islanders in Elmont is reportedly organized and funded by interests in other states.

The plan calls for the construction of a new arena for the Islanders at Belmont Park, along with retail, dining and entertainment components.

An advertisement taking aim at state Sen. Todd Kaminsky, posted on YouTube several months ago, says it was paid for by a group called "Elmont Against the Megamall."


http://longisland.news12.com/story/40248168/review-group-opposed-to-new-islanders-arena-is-not-from-ny?fbclid=IwAR3c17ejoWTHYrhzad5C_F3kwE8lRk6Yn6GBAA-i7zqN_K2Ky-JcJyIoF10

 

[Nosebleed40]

I’m on the Hempstead line 5 days per week. I took notice of the school today. It’s not close to Belmont.