Bright Side

[Ruck Over]

I'm hoping for an 11 game losing streak. We made the playoffs with 10, so that would be Hak's primary argument to stay and Hexy would fall for it. 11 is a different ballpark.

 

[FlyersMania2]

 

[deadhead]

Hex let Manning, Flip and VDV walk, he demoted Weise. He's shown that he's aware of the dross and knows how to get rid, but he's kept MacDonald on the roster.

There has to be a reason for this. I can only imagine that he's an absolute golden god in the dressing room and makes a huge difference to roster morale. That in itself is entirely unquantifiable and isn't something that we as fans would appreciate. The only other option (as evidenced by Lehtera) is that he's feeling he can't bury such salary in the minors. It's highly likely however that both players will go upon expiry.

Hell, it's unlikely but this is the Bright Side thread.

Simplier reason, he's committed to the young players coming up and didn't want to sign a free agent defenseman to a 4 year, $16-17M deal. Which is what they cost. Hextall wanted to get one more season out of MacDonald, the same way he wanted one more season out of Filppula last year. He's gambling to buy time and retain assets - because the time to wheel and deal is after Hart establishes himself as a true NHL starting goaltender.

 

[deadhead]

This is not how anything works. This is hockey pseudoculture manure of the highest order, completely without substance or point. I know we often disagree, but most of the time I can at least follow the logic. This is setting an arbitrary point where the results now matter because Titan is now on the other side of Saturn and your chakra went yellow.

Hot teams tend to win in the playoffs because they're hot, not because the truth has finally been revealed.

But how often are teams "hot" because of moves made near the TDL after the GM identifies weaknesses to be addressed (Chicago twice), or because they promoted a young player who spent the first half of the year marinating in the AHL (Guentzel). Teams are often different in the second half, heck, the Flyers could have JVR, Myers, Friedman, NAK, Twarynski, Rubtsov, Lyon, Hart up in the second half - even 3 or 4 of these players would make this a different looking team (better? who knows, that you only find out on ice, not paper).

You start the season with the best team you think you can put together, given resource constraints, then injuries happen, veterans fall off the cliff, prospects disappoint. If you're middle of the pack, you say "next year," if you're a contender with the window wide open you make moves to stay competitive.

Flyers aren't good enough yet to be a Cup contender, we knew that, but fans always engage in wishful thinking. You don't win Cups with goalies like Elliott (and probably not Lyon), or lack of depth on defense. The depth is better than last season, but still a year away from being solid, and 2-3 years from being exceptional. The top teams not only have deep rosters, but often a couple guys marinating in the AHL ready to step up. We might have those guys, we'll know in February.

 

[deadhead]

Hakstol has elected to go with a nearly identical roster. If he needs 20 games to figure out 4 different players after camp and preseason to boot then he sucks.

You mean Hextall. Hakstol doesn't decide on the roster.

 

[Beef Invictus]

But how often are teams "hot" because of moves made near the TDL after the GM identifies weaknesses to be addressed (Chicago twice), or because they promoted a young player who spent the first half of the year marinating in the AHL (Guentzel). Teams are often different in the second half, heck, the Flyers could have JVR, Myers, Friedman, NAK, Twarynski, Rubtsov, Lyon, Hart up in the second half - even 3 or 4 of these players would make this a different looking team (better? who knows, that you only find out on ice, not paper).

You start the season with the best team you think you can put together, given resource constraints, then injuries happen, veterans fall off the cliff, prospects disappoint. If you're middle of the pack, you say "next year," if you're a contender with the window wide open you make moves to stay competitive.

Flyers aren't good enough yet to be a Cup contender, we knew that, but fans always engage in wishful thinking. You don't win Cups with goalies like Elliott (and probably not Lyon), or lack of depth on defense. The depth is better than last season, but still a year away from being solid, and 2-3 years from being exceptional. The top teams not only have deep rosters, but often a couple guys marinating in the AHL ready to step up. We might have those guys, we'll know in February.

You stated that the roster is finally getting good enough where we can fairly judge Hakstol land yet you're still pretending he is flawless.

Is that your judgement then? That he's perfect?

 

[Beef Invictus]

You mean Hextall. Hakstol doesn't decide on the roster.

Hakstol absolutely decides. Remember when Hextall gave him Sanheim and then sent him down because Hak refused to use him? That was the result of Hak. Not Hex.

Read, who it turned out was better than Lehtera and Dale, was cut out of camp by Hakstol.


You will do anything to believe Hakstol is the living embodiment of perfection.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

But how often are teams "hot" because of moves made near the TDL after the GM identifies weaknesses to be addressed (Chicago twice), or because they promoted a young player who spent the first half of the year marinating in the AHL (Guentzel). Teams are often different in the second half, heck, the Flyers could have JVR, Myers, Friedman, NAK, Twarynski, Rubtsov, Lyon, Hart up in the second half - even 3 or 4 of these players would make this a different looking team (better? who knows, that you only find out on ice, not paper).

You start the season with the best team you think you can put together, given resource constraints, then injuries happen, veterans fall off the cliff, prospects disappoint. If you're middle of the pack, you say "next year," if you're a contender with the window wide open you make moves to stay competitive.

Flyers aren't good enough yet to be a Cup contender, we knew that, but fans always engage in wishful thinking. You don't win Cups with goalies like Elliott (and probably not Lyon), or lack of depth on defense. The depth is better than last season, but still a year away from being solid, and 2-3 years from being exceptional. The top teams not only have deep rosters, but often a couple guys marinating in the AHL ready to step up. We might have those guys, we'll know in February.

Deady, come on. I know you don't think Guentzel was the major reason for the 2015-16 Penguins getting hot. They changed their entire approach to hockey.

The point is that you're applying this label of truth when every season is going to have ebbs and flows. Sometimes you do have transformative moments, but that doesn't make the result more accurate by definition. There's a lot more randomness to all of this than the average person wants to admit.

 

[magnumpi]

Honestly, I think I'm coming to the conclusion that Ed Snider sold his soul for two early cup victories.

And now we're cursed forever.

Fred Shero "win today and we'll together forever"

Exactly, we're going to have to live that moment forever as Flyer fans. Nothing else is going to change.

Look at what's happened since -
PArent gets an eye injury
Lose a cup clinching game on BS offside calls.
Get another great goalie but Lindbergh dies
Have a great but have to face Edmonton
Get Lindros but bad things continuously happen
Have a great team in 2004 but get decimated on defense
Holmgren's team had a promising outlook but half the team turns into drunks and drug addicts then Pronger gets an eye injury.

No matter what they do, everything fails.

 

[Ruck Over]

Honestly, I think I'm coming to the conclusion that Ed Snider sold his soul for two early cup victories.

And now we're cursed forever.

Fred Shero "win today and we'll together forever"

Exactly, we're going to have to live that moment forever as Flyer fans. Nothing else is going to change.

Look at what's happened since -
PArent gets an eye injury
Lose a cup clinching game on BS offside calls.
Get another great goalie but Lindbergh dies
Have a great but have to face Edmonton
Get Lindros but bad things continuously happen
Have a great team in 2004 but get decimated on defense
Holmgren's team had a promising outlook but half the team turns into drunks and drug addicts then Pronger gets an eye injury.

No matter what they do, everything fails.

YOU"RE A BAD MAN! YOU SAY THINGS THAT MAKE ME SAD! GO AWAY< MEANIE!

 

[deadhead]

Deady, come on. I know you don't think Guentzel was the major reason for the 2015-16 Penguins getting hot. They changed their entire approach to hockey.

The point is that you're applying this label of truth when every season is going to have ebbs and flows. Sometimes you do have transformative moments, but that doesn't make the result more accurate by definition. There's a lot more randomness to all of this than the average person wants to admit.

The first year they won they bring up Rust, Sheary and Kuhnhackl, adding forechecking depth. They also traded for Hagelin in January and Schultz in February. And brought Murray up at the end of the season
The second year they bring Guentzel (25g 13-8 21) and Ruhwedel up from the AHL.

Now, these moves didn't win a Cup by themselves, but they certainly positioned the Penguins to make Cup runs.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The first year they won they bring up Rust, Sheary and Kuhnhackl, adding forechecking depth. They also traded for Hagelin in January and Schultz in February. And brought Murray up at the end of the season
The second year they bring Guentzel (25g 13-8 21) and Ruhwedel up from the AHL.

Now, these moves didn't win a Cup by themselves, but they certainly positioned the Penguins to make Cup runs.

They also hired a better coach who guided the roster past injuries that would cripple most teams.

Coaching matters. A lot.

 

[deadhead]

Talent matters more, a lot more.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Talent matters more, a lot more.

Please reference how Bylsma squandered a ton of talent, as well as the likes of Hunter and Oates. The Pens were oozing talent and a bad coach wrecked it. They got a good coach and won. The Caps got a good coach, and they won.

 

[Tripod]

Ok...time to be positive.

On the bright side, we likely won't lose 8-2 tonight.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Ok...time to be positive.

On the bright side, we likely won't lose 8-2 tonight.

Diego: Hold my beer

 

[JojoTheWhale]

The second year they bring Guentzel (25g 13-8 21) and Ruhwedel up from the AHL.

Ah yep, you're right. I always mix up the years Guentzel and Sheary came up for whatever reason. My bad.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Trusting young talent and also knowing how to properly use them without hoping they can sort it out despite coaching. What a feeling that must be to watch.

 

[Hakroach]

Trusting young talent and also knowing how to properly use them without hoping they can sort it out despite coaching. What a feeling that must be to watch.

It must be horrible. All that youthful energy breaking the system.

 

[Rodu58]

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I wouldn't mind if we started 1-10.

Probably the quickest and most efficient way to get Hak fired (expedite the process a bit) and may make Hextall field offers for Simmonds faster than the TDL.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Honestly, I think I'm coming to the conclusion that Ed Snider sold his soul for two early cup victories.

And now we're cursed forever.
No matter what they do, everything fails.

I have a theory that Kate Smith is the reason why we're cursed. We play that stupid video every year and don't win anything -- time to let it die and see how it goes.

 

[deadhead]

Hakstol absolutely decides. Remember when Hextall gave him Sanheim and then sent him down because Hak refused to use him? That was the result of Hak. Not Hex.

Read, who it turned out was better than Lehtera and Dale, was cut out of camp by Hakstol.


You will do anything to believe Hakstol is the living embodiment of perfection.

And you make up things.

Hextall decides on the roster, it's his team, blaming Hakstol is just deflecting responsibility from Hextall.

Read was not better than Lehtera, 5x5 he was awful last year, he wasn't even a top forward on the Phantoms. And he's gone.
Sanheim only stayed up due to injury, they needed a 7th D-man. He was playing like crap at the time, that's why he was demoted.
Hextall is the one who constantly says no player was hurt by more time in the AHL.

And you should join Striiker in the hayfields and build strawmen to your hearts' content.

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

And you make up things.

Hextall decides on the roster, it's his team, blaming Hakstol is just deflecting responsibility from Hextall.

Read was not better than Lehtera, 5x5 he was awful last year, he wasn't even a top forward on the Phantoms. And he's gone.
Sanheim only stayed up due to injury, they needed a 7th D-man. He was playing like crap at the time, that's why he was demoted.
Hextall is the one who constantly says no player was hurt by more time in the AHL.

And you should join Striiker in the hayfields and build strawmen to your hearts' content.

Rimmmmmmmmmmmer.

 

[deadhead]

Please reference how Bylsma squandered a ton of talent, as well as the likes of Hunter and Oates. The Pens were oozing talent and a bad coach wrecked it. They got a good coach and won. The Caps got a good coach, and they won.

Pens added a lot of talent with that new coach, their problem had always been a top heavy franchise that neglected building depth.
And they got lucky when Murray got hot at the right time. Amazing how "genius coaches" and hot goalies seem to go hand in hand.
Or how Gallant looked a lot smarter when MAF had a career year.