News Article: Brian Burke: ‘Mikhail Grabovski is just a class act’

[Ari91]

Bolland is basically Komarov who got put in position to score. Bolland is better defensively but there isnt much that separates the two offensively. Dont count on him being a satisfactory top-6 center for us.

My comment was saying exactly that - he isn't a top 6 player BUT I'm not sure what the extent of your knowledge of Bolland is that you would suggest that his offensive abilities are basically a product of his linemates and so you compare him to the offensive abilities of Komarov (which isn't much). Unless you can provide further information, I'm going to take your comments as being more dramatic than accurate.

In fact, I remember Hawks fans talking about how Bolland was struggling on the second line even with the likes of Kane, Sharp, Hossa as his wingers. I haven't read the opinions of every single Hawks fan but I don't recall any of them describing Bolland's offensive abilities the way you are (by basically saying he has none). Maybe, just maybe, his offense thrives on being used in a suitable role and not solely on his linemates.

 

[pcruz]

Carlyle is a coach who likes to play 4 lines during the regular season he will continue to do so.....hence me asking you if you knew the difference.

Contrary to what you believe Carlyle knows what he is doing and quickly made some adjustments that allowed us to make a series out it against Boston....we lacked some items and many were addressed. One a dependable goalie to have as a back up or starter as we had only one option last year. More toughness in our lineup that can play more meaningful minutes .....hence Clarkson and Bolland. Those are players that gives us a better playoff team next year.

Clarkson is an up grade in toughness over C Mac.
Bolland a upgrade over Grabo in toughness and as a better center in the role that Grabo played in the playoffs last season.

I see a vast improvement in the 3 lines that we can ice next season over the 3 lines that we could have iced last season.

I do not see JVR being double shift as that I believe would be Kessel's role as we could get him away from the top checking lines....only this year with a better over all line.

Last thing...you are not going to convince me that Bolland is not vastly more appropriate for our 3rd line this coming season then Grabo was this year. More physical and meaner as well as much more defensively aware.

Here is his strengths and weakness as Identified by a pro:

Assets: Owns plenty of two-way ability. Is versatile, polished and plays a very solid all-around game. Can be used in all game situations. Likes to play an in-your-face style and can be a pest to play against.
Flaws: Extremely defensively responsible, that part of his game will take away from getting high point totals--because he is needed more for his defensive work. Must avoid more serious injuries.

So his flaw is that he is a defense first type player as apposed to Grabo who is an offense first type player.

I usually do not use Corsi but I will here: Bolland's QOC was the highest on Chicago in each of the past 4 years and 2 in the year before that. I guess that somewhat disproves your assertion that he is not a shut down player unless you think his two time Stanley cup winning coach is a fool.

It appears that many people think Stanley Cup winning coaches are fools. Just look at all the crap thrown at Carlyle this past season and off-season.

 

[zeke]

Yeah, Bolland's offense is being underrated here. He's no stiff offensively.

Age 17 (OHL): 65gms, 37gls, 67pts (82gms, 47gls, 85pts) --- plyf: 15gms, 3gls, 13pts (82gms, 16gls, 71pts)
Age 18 (OHL): 66gms, 34gls, 85pts (82gms, 42gls, 106pts) -- plyf: 22gls, 12gls, 28pts (82gms, 45gls, 104pts)
Age 19 (OHL): 59gms, 57gls, 130pts (82gms, 79gls, 181pts) - plyf: 15gms, 15gls, 24pts (82gms, 82gls, 131pts) --- WJC: 6gms, 3gls, 5pts (82gms, 41gls, 68pts)
Age 20 (AHL): 65gms, 17gls, 49pts (82gms, 22gls, 62pts) --- plyf: 6gms, 0gls, 4pts (82gms, 0gls, 55pts)
Age 21 (NHL): 39gms, 4gls, 17pts (82gms, 8gls, 36pts)
Age 22 (NHL): 81gms, 19gls, 47pts (82gms, 19gls, 48pts) --- plyf: 17gms, 4gls, 12pts (82gms, 19gls, 58pts)
Age 23 (NHL): 39gms, 6gls, 16pts (82gms, 13gls, 34pts) ---- plyf: 22gms, 8gls, 16pts (82gms, 30gls, 60pts)
Age 24 (NHL): 61gms, 15gls, 37pts (82gms, 20gls, 50pts) --- plyf: 4gms, 2gls, 6pts (82gms, 41gls, 123pts)
Age 25 (NHL): 76gms, 19gls, 37pts (82gms, 21gls, 40pts) --- plyf: 6gms, 0gls, 3pts (82gms, 0gls, 41pts)
Age 26 (NHL): 35gms, 7gls, 14pts (82gms, 16gls, 33pts) ---- plyf: 18gms, 3gls, 6pts (82gms, 14gls, 27pts)


NHL (20-26): 332gms, 70gls, 168pts (82gms, 17gls, 42pts) -- plyf: 67gms, 17gls, 43pts (82gms, 21gls, 53pts)
AHL (20-21): 81gms, 23gls, 59pts (82gms, 23gls, 60pts) ---- plyf: 13gms, 0gls, 4pts (82gms, 0gls, 25pts)
OHL (16-19): 254gms, 135gls, 299pts (82gms, 44gls, 97pts) - plyf: 66gms, 32gls, 68pts (82gms, 40gls, 85pts)


Bolland is a solid 2nd line producer, and an excellent 3rd line producer.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

My comment was saying exactly that - he isn't a top 6 player BUT I'm not sure what the extent of your knowledge of Bolland is that you would suggest that his offensive abilities are basically a product of his linemates and so you compare him to the offensive abilities of Komarov (which isn't much). Unless you can provide further information, I'm going to take your comments as being more dramatic than accurate.

In fact, I remember Hawks fans talking about how Bolland was struggling on the second line even with the likes of Kane, Sharp, Hossa as his wingers. I haven't read the opinions of every single Hawks fan but I don't recall any of them describing Bolland's offensive abilities the way you are (by basically saying he has none). Maybe, just maybe, his offense thrives on being used in a suitable role and not solely on his linemates.

Im exaggerating when I say hes comparable to Leo but I also think Leos goal-scoring was a bit underrated. 4 goals during a half season with 3rd/4th line mintes is respectable. He was/is a goal-scorer in the KHL as well.

 

[Ari91]

Im exaggerating when I say hes comparable to Leo but I also think Leos goal-scoring was a bit underrated. 4 goals during a half season with 3rd/4th line mintes is respectable. He was/is a goal-scorer in the KHL as well.

It's just not a good comparison. Leo has a very small body of NHL work to make a strong case either way about his goal scoring abilities in the NHL. Bolland has several years of NHL experience that suggests that he can produce in the NHL. I don't think his career numbers have been reliant on top 6 minutes and a lot of PP time and so when you look at his stats, I don't see why you even exaggerate by making that comparison.

Goal scoring in the KHL doesn't necessarily translate to the NHL. There's a reason why the NHL is the best hockey league in the world. No one plays in the NHL because they aren't good enough to make it in another hockey league. On the flip side, A LOT of players play in other leagues because they aren't good enough to stick around in the NHL.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Anyone who refers to bolland as a fourth line centre is being dishonest.

Bolland was the hawks #2 centre all year, before being felled by injury (which he tried to play through for a while), after mising a month and a playoff series, with the team playing well, he was eased back into the lineup on a bottom line. But by the finals, he was back up to 16+ minutes per game, and had 5pts in 6gms, including the cup winning goal.

He was a fourth line centre last season. I don't truly care about his injury. Our limitation was never our third line at all. Seeing that Chicago is truly going for four offensive/ skilled lines (i.e. Toews /TT or Handzus / Kruger/ Hayes, I don't see Bolland's "shut down" ability being as great as most think. You don't trade a guy for nothing and sign Bickell for $4m instead.

I think we could take a more conservative approach and have our bottom six largely under EL-contract. Our goaltending tandem is solid as is the youngsters in our system. Get Kessel and Phaneuf resigned, and I think we'll be contending. This idea that "grit" is everything just seems ridiculous. We got Clarkson, we don't really require Bolland ($3 million) as well.

This has nothing to do with Grabovski. He shouldn't be on this team if he can't fit on the top six.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Colborne is not a shut down Center....and McClements played with Grabo last year....so your suggestion that we do not need Bolland in this role tells me all I need to know.

Bolland was injured before the start of the playoffs....I thought that you knew this stuff as you are always injecting players into conversation.....it seems that you only do so to cloud an issue. Bolland played the toughest minutes of any Hawk last year despite being injury. Trying to twist things may fool you but not me.

You said this Actually, Kadri will be more underutilised, because Kessel is simply a superior playmaker. Do you seriously watch games....Kadri lead the league in first assists and is great passer of the puck. Putting Kessel and him together would make Phil more dangerous not less. Saying Kessel is simply a superior playmaker is without merit!

Do you watch the games? Have you ever read the scouting reports before either were drafted? Kessel's playmaking ability was always considered elite. He can find passing/ scoring lanes a lot better than Kadri even though he's not in the middle.

This grand claim is much like yours against Elias. Just because someone plays centre doesn't mean them a superior playmaker. Nor does a first assists. Kessel was first in assists in our team, and while up against the shut down lines. Kadri was a lot more sheltered.

 

[diceman934]

Do you watch the games? Have you ever read the scouting reports before either were drafted? Kessel's playmaking ability was always considered elite. He can find passing/ scoring lanes a lot better than Kadri even though he's not in the middle.

This grand claim is much like yours against Elias. Just because someone plays centre doesn't mean them a superior playmaker. Nor does a first assists. Kessel was first in assists in our team, and while up against the shut down lines. Kadri was a lot more sheltered.

I do far more then watch and this is not the first time you have quoted players scouting reports when they were not pro players..

My claims about Kadri's passing ability is not a claim but a fact. He lead the team in even strength assists playing less minutes...Kessel is a good play maker but not at the same level.

When I said he lead the League in First assists....that should have told you all that you needed to know. You really do not know the difference between first assists then assists...

Kessel played a lot more minutes as well as a lot more PP. Even strengths Assist Kadri 23 Kessel 13. Kessel played 3.45 minutes per game more. 7 full 60 minutes games more in ice time..430 minutes.

Look this is not a slight on Kessel he is great....you just do not understand the game well enough to understand watch you watch....I only see you quote Dated scouting reports from when a player was not an NHL player....You do realize that they are only valid for that year. We have drafted many players with great scouting reports....that means squat as some players never come close to what they were projected to be.

 

[diceman934]

He was a fourth line centre last season. I don't truly care about his injury. Our limitation was never our third line at all. Seeing that Chicago is truly going for four offensive/ skilled lines (i.e. Toews /TT or Handzus / Kruger/ Hayes, I don't see Bolland's "shut down" ability being as great as most think. You don't trade a guy for nothing and sign Bickell for $4m instead.

I think we could take a more conservative approach and have our bottom six largely under EL-contract. Our goaltending tandem is solid as is the youngsters in our system. Get Kessel and Phaneuf resigned, and I think we'll be contending. This idea that "grit" is everything just seems ridiculous. We got Clarkson, we don't really require Bolland ($3 million) as well.

This has nothing to do with Grabovski. He shouldn't be on this team if he can't fit on the top six.

This has everything to do with Grabo....

We bought him out, and traded 3 draft picks for Bolland ...that is not nothing as you suggest. Bolland was brought in to do something Grabo could not do....and also his is mean and oozes leadership.

Our limitation was our 3rd line....very little production and wereon the ice for a **** load of goals....LOOK at the playoff stats if you need any further clarification....we lack a shut down center.

 

[diceman934]

Bolland is basically Komarov who got put in position to score. Bolland is better defensively but there isnt much that separates the two offensively. Dont count on him being a satisfactory top-6 center for us.

Your Love for Grabo is hampering your though process....Komarov is a plug who can skate.... Bolland is a beast who has played against the best players in the NHL more then any other Hawk player for 4 years straight and yet still produced points....but you go ahead and continue this pity party for Grabo .

 

[diceman934]

Im exaggerating when I say hes comparable to Leo but I also think Leos goal-scoring was a bit underrated. 4 goals during a half season with 3rd/4th line mintes is respectable. He was/is a goal-scorer in the KHL as well.

So if Leo played the whole year he may have out scored Frazer McLaren who played only 4th line minutes and 35 games to Leo's 42 games who played 3 times as much ....Fraser 3 goals Leo 4 goals.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

I do far more then watch and this is not the first time you have quoted players scouting reports when they were not pro players..

By quoting players before they're drafted, we can actually see where they've started. The fact is the Kessel was always known to have that elite potential in the playmaking department.

My claims about Kadri's passing ability is not a claim but a fact. He lead the team in even strength assists playing less minutes...Kessel is a good play maker but not at the same level.

Kyle Okposo (1.09), Brad Marchand (1.08), and Matt Stajan (1.04) have a higher first assist per 60 minute statistic than Joe Thornton (0.90) and Henrik Sedin (0.67). In fact, Kessel (0.94 A1/60) produced not far from Backstrom (1.14), Datsyuk (1.00), and higher than the other two elite playmakers. The field of statistics is getting killed over and over again.

You need to understand that Kadri played in a sheltered role. He is still developing into a top liner. To suggest that he's better via statistics alone is very ridiculous. If anything, when both were playing together, Kessel was the main possession guy and Kadri was crashing the net and attempting to score.

When I said he lead the League in First assists....that should have told you all that you needed to know. You really do not know the difference between first assists then assists...

You're the king of double standards. I've noticed that you love to grasp for statistics that favours your position. If not, we'll see you clinging to the, "I've seen him play" nonsense.

Kessel played a lot more minutes as well as a lot more PP. Even strengths Assist Kadri 23 Kessel 13. Kessel played 3.45 minutes per game more. 7 full 60 minutes games more in ice time..430 minutes.

Hilarious. Let's totally forget that Kadri was being heavily sheltered. Hell, we may as well use the PP TOI argument for Matt Cullen (1:56) whose A1/60 was 1.52. Maybe if he's given more PP TOI, he'd outperform scrubs like Thornton or Toews!

Speaking of Toews, where is that overrated scrub? He's at 0.71, which is lower than Kadri (1.79) as well. Elias is a 1.00, and I must say, he is an extremely underrated playmaker. Interestingly, Weiss was at a 0.69 in the 2010-2011 season and he was quite popular over here...

Look this is not a slight on Kessel he is great....you just do not understand the game well enough to understand watch you watch....I only see you quote Dated scouting reports from when a player was not an NHL player....You do realize that they are only valid for that year. We have drafted many players with great scouting reports....that means squat as some players never come close to what they were projected to be.

Umm...no. You don't see players somehow somehow lose attributes. Those who were considered strong playmakers (i.e. Krueger, Wellwood, etc) still utilise that trait in their depth roles. Instead, their skill base just broadens rather than somehow regress.

That being said, my position is clear, I think Kadri has a potential to be a first line centre. I just don't see him bypassing Kessel despite playing in the middle. The first assist statistic even when standardised is very unreliable. Kessel has shown to be extremely clutch even though he's essentially a withdrawn playmaker.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

This has everything to do with Grabo....

We bought him out, and traded 3 draft picks for Bolland ...that is not nothing as you suggest. Bolland was brought in to do something Grabo could not do....and also his is mean and oozes leadership.

Our limitation was our 3rd line....very little production and wereon the ice for a **** load of goals....LOOK at the playoff stats if you need any further clarification....we lack a shut down center.

Your obsession with Grabovski is ridiculous. Our third line was NOT the problem. It was atrocious line combinations by Carlyle, and once we started icing Frattin, MacArthur, Liles, and the rest more, we became a lot more productive.

During the playoffs, Colborne was largely playing with Lupul and yet it was extremely productive against Boston. We were driving possession against a team that plays a tight checking style of hockey. Don't mistaken me, I don't get think Colborne is the next Eric Lindros. However, I think he represents a similar centre as Teravainen ( much higher offensive upside imo)/ Kruger/ Hayes, who will take Bolland's spot next season!

The pairs were essentially...

Kadri - Kessel
JVR - Grabovski
Lupul - Colborne

I don't have an issue with the removal of Grabovski. Heck, the Bozak - Kessel pair is sufficient. I think if we had a JVR - Kadri pair and went with the Lupul - Colborne, our team would be very effective. Clarkson and Kulemin can be moved around, while a youngster like Ashton, Leivo, etc could be given a stint.

Trading for Bolland was really not a smart move. I know many here despise Grabovski, but that doesn't mean that we should be throwing away draft picks for a peripheral player.

 

[zeke]

You need to understand that Kadri played in a sheltered role. He is still developing into a top liner. To suggest that he's better via statistics alone is very ridiculous. If anything, when both were playing together, Kessel was the main possession guy and Kadri was crashing the net and attempting to score.

actually, Kadri's role wasn't very sheltered.

Amongst centres:

CorsiRelQoC: +0.444 (84th of 241)
CorsiQoC:+1.915 (18th of 241)
+/- QoC: -0.007 (106th of 241)

Even if you adjust further down for team effects, he's still middle of the pack in qualcomp, really.

 

[Drugstorecowboi]

Your Love for Grabo is hampering your though process....Komarov is a plug who can skate.... Bolland is a beast who has played against the best players in the NHL more then any other Hawk player for 4 years straight and yet still produced points....but you go ahead and continue this pity party for Grabo .

well said my man.

 

[Drugstorecowboi]

Oh man, reading this thread weeks later and noticing that some disillusioned fan boys still don't understand that Burke and Grabovski are the worst.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

actually, Kadri's role wasn't very sheltered.

Amongst centres:

CorsiRelQoC: +0.444 (84th of 241)
CorsiQoC:+1.915 (18th of 241)
+/- QoC: -0.007 (106th of 241)

Even if you adjust further down for team effects, he's still middle of the pack in qualcomp, really.

Yeah, as his career progressed, he started being less sheltered. It doesn't really change the fact that Kessel was the forward that faced the shut down specialists. This was even the case prior to last season.

I think to suggest that Kadri is better than Kessel in the playmaking department is very grand. Kessel, on his playmaking acumen alone, is extremely elite. I'd consider his elite vision and playmaking ability putting him onto the >$6 million mark alone. If Kadri is going to be giving us >50 assists per year, I'd give him more than 4 million dollars a year. Once Bozak gets into the habit of finishing his play, I can expect the numbers to increase. I think as JVR and Kessel's defensive abilities improve, we can expect Bozak to be more offensive.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Oh man, reading this thread weeks later and noticing that some disillusioned fan boys still don't understand that Burke and Grabovski are the worst.

Hahahaha....yeah don't blame the fans of a team who have been so crap for so long...that's what happens..they see absolute mediocrity and it looks pretty damn good after watching the depths of garbage that they have had to endure for years.
Think about it Vaive...if you have lived off of garbagecan throwaways for years and all of a sudden you get a McD's coupon for a free burger..you all of a sudden think you are fine dining but in reality you are eating McD's.

 

[MrLegend28*]

I got bored so yesterday I did a percentage by month of last yr, a point registered. not ppg cause you could score 5 in one game and go silent for 4 games and that dont help the team. I was doing Kessel/Kadri for comparison and boredom. Notice how once teams started placing better defenders on Kadri, his numbers plummeted? oh, and Kessel got way better in "clutch time" (i suppose you could call April clutch).

In April, over 80% of the games, Kessel got a point in. For Kadri? not so much.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

I got bored so yesterday I did a percentage by month of last yr, a point registered. not ppg cause you could score 5 in one game and go silent for 4 games and that dont help the team. I was doing Kessel/Kadri for comparison and boredom. Notice how once teams started placing better defenders on Kadri, his numbers plummeted? oh, and Kessel got way better in "clutch time" (i suppose you could call April clutch).

In April, over 80% of the games, Kessel got a point in. For Kadri? not so much.

Are you comparing Kessel to Kadri when Kessel had 100 NHL games played? No? Kessel has played 5X the number of pro games as Kadri has. Kadri is also 22 years old and hasn't even played one full NHL season. In what universe is this a fair comparison?
Both good players. Both critical to future team success. Not sure what your point is.

 

[Gobias Industries]

actually, Kadri's role wasn't very sheltered.

Amongst centres:

CorsiRelQoC: +0.444 (84th of 241)
CorsiQoC:+1.915 (18th of 241)
+/- QoC: -0.007 (106th of 241)

Even if you adjust further down for team effects, he's still middle of the pack in qualcomp, really.

This probably has a lot to do with playing in a tough division, and the lockout providing more divisional games.

 

[zeke]

He was a fourth line centre last season. I don't truly care about his injury. Our limitation was never our third line at all. Seeing that Chicago is truly going for four offensive/ skilled lines (i.e. Toews /TT or Handzus / Kruger/ Hayes, I don't see Bolland's "shut down" ability being as great as most think. You don't trade a guy for nothing and sign Bickell for $4m instead.

I think we could take a more conservative approach and have our bottom six largely under EL-contract. Our goaltending tandem is solid as is the youngsters in our system. Get Kessel and Phaneuf resigned, and I think we'll be contending. This idea that "grit" is everything just seems ridiculous. We got Clarkson, we don't really require Bolland ($3 million) as well.

This has nothing to do with Grabovski. He shouldn't be on this team if he can't fit on the top six.

No, bolland was their 2nd line centre all year, except for when he rushed back from i jury for the playoffs.

1. Toews 47gms, 19:21
2. Bolland 35gms, 16:20
3. Shaw 48gms, 15:03
4. Kruger 47gms, 14:10
5. Handzus 11gms, 12:07

Their 2nd line centre untl he was injured, in one of the best regular seasons by a team in recent memory....and of course that incredible early season winning streak came with him healthy....they were not nearly that good with him injured.

The unlikely combo of a nasty injury and handzus catching lightning in a bottle kept him down the lineup in the playoffs, but not even that stopped him from being one of the best players in the finals, earning his usual 16+ mi.utes again.

 

[zeke]

Jas. @RinkRover
Weird: Grabo was demoted to the third line, and yet #fireoates isn't trending. prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/18/cap… #TMLtalk #caps

Caps shuffle lines: Grabovski dropped; Erat promoted; Laich to the middle
Jason Brough Oct 18, 2013, 11:27 AM EDT
9 Comments
In an effort to stoke the offense and get his 2-5-0 team turned around, Capitals head coach Adam Oates has shuffled the forward lines ahead of Saturday’s home game versus Columbus.

Per CSN Washington, here’s what the new combinations were today at practice:

Marcus Johansson – Nicklas Backstrom – Alex Ovechkin
Martin Erat – Brooks Laich – Troy Brouwer
Jason Chimera – Mikhail Grabovski – Joel Ward
Aaron Volpatti – Jay Beagle – Eric Fehr/Tom Wilson....

Katie Carrera @kcarrera
Oates on line changes: “I felt that a couple guys weren’t playing good enough for the minutes they’re getting and they need to know that”

 

[BonMorrison]

You posted this here AND in the Around the League thread. Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

Anyways - Grabo is irrelevant for main board talk now so I'll discuss my opinion in the Around the League.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Grabo's 3rd on the team in points with 6 and has the best +- rating for the capitals at 0 lol