Value of: Brett Pesce

[Cane mutiny]

CAR wants to KEEP Pesce for the exact same reasons as many TOR fans want to trade FOR him. Case closed. I think all the Nylander/Pesce threads will remain just empty talk.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

Wow, this thread has devolved into a pissing match between a couple of wanna be English professors.
Not your typical colloquial discussion for a hockey forum.....see what I did there?

Anyway, Canes aren't trading Pesce for an unsigned Willie. The offer is Faulk and a pick/prospect.

Faulk doesn’t solve the Leafs problems on D

 

[ITM]

You keep saying keeping nylander + getting player "similar to" Pesce is better, when you dont even have the cap space to sign Nylander, you wont have cap space to acquire upgrade at defence, do you understand that simple thing?

Besides that, the reported ask for Nylander is half of Pesce's, with your logic you should compare having Nylander to Pesce + around 4m for another asset.

You keep talking but you still havent shown any knowledge of the situation, even though you admit you do.

Untrue. Toronto has the space to sign Nylander. The amount is in question with respect to future signings/moves as yet to be determined. That's the simple truth of our situation. It is feasible to sign Nylander and acquire other defenceman with good cap hits, with modest offensive output, who may or may not be right-handed. Acquiring them doesn't require Toronto to trade any one of Matthews, Marner or Nylander.

As to what the reported ask of Nylander is, do you mean double that of Pesce, which would be half of the purported but unknown ask of Nylander?

And yes, I keep saying Nylander remaining a Leaf and the club looking for other options that don't cost Nylander is the better option. If that offends your delicate sensibilities concerning the perceived value of some of your defenceman, then please, accept my sincerest apologies for not providing the required amount of respect for...Brett Pesce and his place in your heart.

 

[ITM]

You realize no one was talking about Pesce because he plays in Carolina right? Sure, he's being talked about now because of the Nylander holdout, but that has absolutely nothing to do with his ability.

Besides, Nylander is reliant on Matthews and two thirds of his points at even strength came with Matthews. Now Kapanen is playing at a PPG pace and about to pass his season high of 9 on 38 from last season IN TEN GAMES because he's playing with Matthews.

We'll keep our stud of a RD that we can slot in anywhere in the lineup on a steal of a contract as opposed to a winger/fringe center who's throwing away his season by holding out for a big payday.

Do you realize that most of the speculation by Leafs fans here are as a result of the speculation as to what piece Carolina might offer for Nylander from reports that Carolina has called Toronto repeatedly about Nylander? Note...Carolina calling Toronto about Nylander, NOT, Toronto calling Carolina about Pesce or about the availability of Nylander. It's a small distinction that seems to be completely ignored by Canes fans, but...that's the report.

As to no one talking about Pesce because he's Carolina...So Sebastian Aho, Teuvo Teravainen, Justin Faulk, all unknown quantities because they play in Carolina? I'm sure many in Toronto feel similarly about Travis Dermott as some appear to feel in Carolina about Brett Pesce. But playing in Carolina has nothing to do with the lack of respect toward Pesce some feel is being thrown his way and more to do with the timing of a player coming into his own. But let me guess...As a Canes fan you're entirely aware of Dermott's rising value?

If not it means you're not a real hockey fan and shouldn't provide an opinion in deals where Dermott is offered for Aho.

Zach Hyman also played with Auston Matthews and didn't turn into a point per game player. William Nylander's Leafs numbers look an awful lot like the numbers he puts up without Auston Matthews. Kasperi Kapanen is a good player and he's benefiting - albeit from a small sample size - from playing on Matthews line. It's no secret that coaches put good players with good players and together they produce more than less talented players. It doesn't fit your preferred narrative of comparing Kapanen's fourth line production vs his time with Matthews, nor does it demonstrate a familiarity with Kapanen's development and similar production at every level he's played.

Keep your "stud of a RD"...I haven't come calling for him and neither has our GM. Understand? Apparently...Carolina came calling on Nylander. Dubas didn't come calling on Pesce. Let...that...sink...in.

 

[CheMxDawG]

Do you realize that most of the speculation by Leafs fans here are as a result of the speculation as to what piece Carolina might offer for Nylander from reports that Carolina has called Toronto repeatedly about Nylander? Note...Carolina calling Toronto about Nylander, NOT, Toronto calling Carolina about Pesce or about the availability of Nylander. It's a small distinction that seems to be completely ignored by Canes fans, but...that's the report.

As to no one talking about Pesce because he's Carolina...So Sebastian Aho, Teuvo Teravainen, Justin Faulk, all unknown quantities because they play in Carolina? I'm sure many in Toronto feel similarly about Travis Dermott as some appear to feel in Carolina about Brett Pesce. But playing in Carolina has nothing to do with the lack of respect toward Pesce some feel is being thrown his way and more to do with the timing of a player coming into his own. But let me guess...As a Canes fan you're entirely aware of Dermott's rising value?

If not it means you're not a real hockey fan and shouldn't provide an opinion in deals where Dermott is offered for Aho.

Zach Hyman also played with Auston Matthews and didn't turn into a point per game player. William Nylander's Leafs numbers look an awful lot like the numbers he puts up without Auston Matthews. Kasperi Kapanen is a good player and he's benefiting - albeit from a small sample size - from playing on Matthews line. It's no secret that coaches put good players with good players and together they produce more than less talented players. It doesn't fit your preferred narrative of comparing Kapanen's fourth line production vs his time with Matthews, nor does it demonstrate a familiarity with Kapanen's development and similar production at every level he's played.

Keep your "stud of a RD"...I haven't come calling for him and neither has our GM. Understand? Apparently...Carolina came calling on Nylander. Dubas didn't come calling on Pesce. Let...that...sink...in.

You missed my point completely. You have no idea what was even offered. Dubas could be pushing for Pesce for an unsigned Nylander for all we know, don't act like you're an insider.

What does Dermott have to do with this? Let him play for a year before you boast about his skyrocketing value.

Hyman didn't get PP looks like Nylander, so that's not a good comparable and also proves my point because like Willie, two thirds of his ES points came with Matthews.

 

[varano]

You missed my point completely. You have no idea what was even offered. Dubas could be pushing for Pesce for an unsigned Nylander for all we know, don't act like you're an insider.

What does Dermott have to do with this? Let him play for a year before you boast about his skyrocketing value.

Hyman didn't get PP looks like Nylander, so that's not a good comparable and also proves my point because like Willie, two thirds of his ES points came with Matthews.

Its pretty obvious Faulk was offered. Dubas Kicked tires on Faulk in the past.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

But playing in Carolina has nothing to do with the lack of respect toward Pesce some feel is being thrown his way and more to do with the timing of a player coming into his own. But let me guess...As a Canes fan you're entirely aware of Dermott's rising value?

Pesce has played in the NHL since 2015. This is his 4th season as a pro. He's been great since he first started, and became noticed Leaguewide in 2016. His placement on the NHL career track isn't comparable to Dermott, a 2nd year pro with 45 games to his name, at present.

 

[varano]

Pesce has played in the NHL since 2015. This is his 4th season as a pro. He's been great since he first started, and became noticed Leaguewide in 2016. His placement on the NHL career track isn't comparable to Dermott, a 2nd year pro with 45 games to his name, at present.

Are you sure most fanbases would agree with you? I'd bet that 80% of fanbases on this site have the answer of "Yeah Ive kind of heard of him" when asked about Pesce...

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Are you sure most fanbases would agree with you? I'd bet that 80% of fanbases on this site have the answer of "Yeah Ive kind of heard of him" when asked about Pesce...

That's the bar I'm aiming at with "noticed". He's not the talk of HF or anything, but most are generally aware of who he is and that he's good, probably.

 

[ITM]

You missed my point completely. You have no idea what was even offered. Dubas could be pushing for Pesce for an unsigned Nylander for all we know, don't act like you're an insider.

What does Dermott have to do with this? Let him play for a year before you boast about his skyrocketing value.

Hyman didn't get PP looks like Nylander, so that's not a good comparable and also proves my point because like Willie, two thirds of his ES points came with Matthews.

Wrong. Nylander's career renders he's a point producer at every level with everyone he's played with. And you can't remove every good player who produces with good players from the association in which they produce. Just like Slavin and Pesce I'd wager.

Dermott has to do with isolated fan base valuation of preferred players and fan bases outside of a certain club and their perception of those same, lesser known players. Dermott, to Leafs fans, is an absolute gem. So far in the brief time my post mentioning him has been up, he's been dismissed well under the general apprehension most of us value him with.

I also want to thank you for stating he should play a year (i.e. a full season) before I "boast" about his "skyrocketing value. And that's because some Canes fans sought to define Nylander's first season as the one consisting of 22 games split with his time in the AHL as opposed to the following season in which he played the whole year. Goes to show, confirmation bias is alive and well in Carolina.

Speaking of which, stating reported facts i.e. Carolina called Toronto rather than the other way around, isn't acting like I'm an insider. Continuously raising Pesce's value to that of Nylander as though Pesce is the piece being offered and that Toronto would do well to accept it, is a little rash. You see...My repeated position is to KEEP our asset. And that position is in response to the scenarios in which Canes fans and some Leafs fans repeat Pesce as a/the likely target/return.

All I've claimed to glean from official reports is that Carolina...Your club....CALLED...Toronto...My club, about William Nylander. That's ALL I've claimed concerning that report. I haven't claimed the Canes offered Hamilton, Slavin, Pesce or Aho or Darling or picks or if it was merely a question about availability.

But by all means, continue to prefer whatever accommodates your emotional needs.

 

[ITM]

Are you sure most fanbases would agree with you? I'd bet that 80% of fanbases on this site have the answer of "Yeah Ive kind of heard of him" when asked about Pesce...

Exactly the case in my case. But be careful, against the proposition of moving him for Nylander while defending a want to keep Nylander can get you surrounded by HFBoards Carolina section with torches and pitchforks.

Who knew!? Brett Pesce. lol

 

[ITM]

Pesce has played in the NHL since 2015. This is his 4th season as a pro. He's been great since he first started, and became noticed Leaguewide in 2016. His placement on the NHL career track isn't comparable to Dermott, a 2nd year pro with 45 games to his name, at present.

Well, Pot...Dermott, from the OHL, to the AHL to the NHL has looked fantastic. Toronto fans come in all shapes and sizes with degrees of hockey knowledge to match but they are a vigilante bunch in aggregating their experience and interests and sharing them. Brett Pesce has never come up, until this predicament, in any meaningful way, other than as a good supplemental addition. The STAR you're representing he is, is a complete unknown to me. And judging from the passerby, from more fans than you're perhaps willing to believe don't likewise share your familiarity and enthusiasm for Brett Pesce.

You know, I think I mentioned Brett Pesce last season, in the same light as Justin Braun. No intended slight...I suppose, anymore than you're apparent lack of familiarity with Travis Dermott intends to offend. While a quick hockeydb or elite prospects search could provide enough information to pass off an informed opinion, I at least sought clarification from a source that could account for the eye-test on Pesce. You obviously haven't been watching Travis Dermott play to determine he's less than Brett Pesce in terms of career trajectory...at a position notorious for plodding development.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Well, Pot...Dermott, from the OHL, to the AHL to the NHL has looked fantastic. Toronto fans come in all shapes and sizes with degrees of hockey knowledge to match but they are a vigilante bunch in aggregating their experience and interests and sharing them. Brett Pesce has never come up, until this predicament, in any meaningful way, other than as a good supplemental addition. The STAR you're representing he is, is a complete unknown to me. And judging from the passerby, from more fans than you're perhaps willing to believe don't likewise share your familiarity and enthusiasm for Brett Pesce.

You know, I think I mentioned Brett Pesce last season, in the same light as Justin Braun. No intended slight...I suppose, anymore than you're apparent lack of familiarity with Travis Dermott intends to offend. While a quick hockeydb or elite prospects search could provide enough information to pass off an informed opinion, I at least sought clarification from a source that could account for the eye-test on Pesce. You obviously haven't been watching Travis Dermott play to determine he's less than Brett Pesce in terms of career trajectory...at a position notorious for plodding development.

You missed the point.

You said:

As to no one talking about Pesce because he's Carolina...So Sebastian Aho, Teuvo Teravainen, Justin Faulk, all unknown quantities because they play in Carolina? I'm sure many in Toronto feel similarly about Travis Dermott as some appear to feel in Carolina about Brett Pesce. But playing in Carolina has nothing to do with the lack of respect toward Pesce some feel is being thrown his way and more to do with the timing of a player coming into his own. But let me guess...As a Canes fan you're entirely aware of Dermott's rising value?

Claim: Pesce doesn't get a lot of notice around the League because of the timing of his "coming into his own", which you then compare to Travis Dermott's.

1) Pesce came into his own 3 years ago. Just because you were ignorant of it doesn't mean it didn't happen. 2) Thus, Pesce isn't comparable to Dermott's current career arc, since Dermott actually is currently coming into his own right now- as in, establishing himself as a good player in the League- whereas Pesce established himself years ago.

Hope that clears it up.

 

[Svechhammer]

Imagine that. People getting upset in a Brett Pesce thread because Canes fans say thanks but no thanks to your overwhelming gracious offer of holdout Nylander for Pesce+.

Shocked I says... Shocked!

 

[Critical13]

Imagine that. People getting upset in a Brett Pesce thread because Canes fans say thanks but no thanks to your overwhelming gracious offer of holdout Nylander for Pesce+.

Shocked I says... Shocked!

Not really what I am reading, the bias is your post is clear.

Trading a defensive defenceman for a high skilled winger is probably one of the most difficult trades there is in terms of appropriating value. If Pesce has 45-50 point skill on display, it's an easy debate. If Nylander signed a fair/disocunt offer, it also swings the other direction. As things stand now, it's almost impossible to be wrong or right.

Personally, I feel like we need Pesce badly, but trading Nylander for him a not a good philosophy. I don't think we replace Nylander easily, but I do think we can find a lesser version of Pesce for considerably cheaper, or we can find a more offensively gifted Pesce if we want to swing for the fences.

I don't blame Carolina fans for not wanting to move him, but you paint a one sided picture...

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

This thread is just hot trash littered with thesaurus references. All it comes down to is one guy saying that Pesce can’t possobly hold the value that he does because he doesn’t know anything about him. He also doesn’t know the value of other players around the league so Pesce must have similar value to them as well.

It’s too bad the world doesn’t work like that. I’m sure I’d be great at trading stocks if my opinion and lack of general knowledge in the field dictated the ups and down of the market.

 

[Svechhammer]

Not really what I am reading, the bias is your post is clear.

Trading a defensive defenceman for a high skilled winger is probably one of the most difficult trades there is in terms of appropriating value. If Pesce has 45-50 point skill on display, it's an easy debate. If Nylander signed a fair/disocunt offer, it also swings the other direction. As things stand now, it's almost impossible to be wrong or right.

Personally, I feel like we need Pesce badly, but trading Nylander for him a not a good philosophy. I don't think we replace Nylander easily, but I do think we can find a lesser version of Pesce for considerably cheaper, or we can find a more offensively gifted Pesce if we want to swing for the fences.

I don't blame Carolina fans for not wanting to move him, but you paint a one sided picture...

Right, you know because we are totally flooding this Nylander thread about Pesce...

 

[Critical13]

Right, you know because we are totally flooding this Nylander thread about Pesce...

In the earlier pages where I was taking part, there was plenty of opinions coming from both sides. It just so happens that it’s a conversation between one of the biggest and one of the smallest groups on the board.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

What number is he going to wear?
Zeitsev already has 22
Possibly 55?

 

[gabeliscious]

What number is he going to wear?
Zeitsev already has 22
Possibly 55?

Zaitsev will be going back the other way not to worry.

Nylander and zaitsev for pesce + lotto protected 1st.

What do you think carolina was scouting at toronto game?

 

[Pia8988]

Zaitsev will be going back the other way not to worry.

Nylander and zaitsev for pesce + lotto protected 1st.

What do you think carolina was scouting at toronto game?

Nice wishful thinking

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Zaitsev will be going back the other way not to worry.

Nylander and zaitsev for pesce + lotto protected 1st.

What do you think carolina was scouting at toronto game?

No need whatsoever for Zaitsev and we’re certainly not giving up our first for him.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

MY repeated preference is keeping Nylander and not trading for Pesce with Nylander. Meaning, I'd prefer to find an alternative similar (albeit lesser) version of our need without having to move Nylander in a situation of duress to do so.

Similarly, Canes could keep Pesce and get another forward (center most likely) via another route such as UFA as an example. Then all of this back and forth would be pointless .....

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Are you sure most fanbases would agree with you? I'd bet that 80% of fanbases on this site have the answer of "Yeah Ive kind of heard of him" when asked about Pesce...

If they follow the NHL, they would have heard of him. If they just follow their team like a lot of Leaf fans do (not an uncommon phenomena btw) , then they were probably in the dark about Pesce and numerous other players.

 

[GoldiFox]

Not really what I am reading, the bias is your post is clear.

Trading a defensive defenceman for a high skilled winger is probably one of the most difficult trades there is in terms of appropriating value. If Pesce has 45-50 point skill on display, it's an easy debate. If Nylander signed a fair/disocunt offer, it also swings the other direction. As things stand now, it's almost impossible to be wrong or right.

Personally, I feel like we need Pesce badly, but trading Nylander for him a not a good philosophy. I don't think we replace Nylander easily, but I do think we can find a lesser version of Pesce for considerably cheaper, or we can find a more offensively gifted Pesce if we want to swing for the fences.

I don't blame Carolina fans for not wanting to move him, but you paint a one sided picture...

Haven’t we already established that you specifically 1) Don’t watch the Canes 2) Don’t watch Pesce and 3) Have zero idea if he is a “defensive defenseman” as you keep saying or not?

I believe I asked you for one example, one play, one anything of how you see Pesce limited offensively. Crickets. A lot like this thread, ignorance abound.

If Pesce had “45-50 point skill on display” you would never see it. You don’t know if Pesce is currently showing 45-50 point skill. Why act like you do when it’s so clear you have no idea what you are speaking of?