Yes, I mean cheaper than $1MM. Sign a few vets on AHL contracts.Jesus Christ my brain hurts so much.
Gaunce is cheap and a veteran center.
Or did you mean cheaper than ~1m and MORE veteran......
Player Discussion Brendan Gone-ce: Will not be qualified, so pour one out here
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VanillaCoke
Registered User
- Oct 30, 2013
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So you want to ditch a younger cheap veteran center who can play on your NHL's team for a couple older worse more veteran centers that you have to go find and sign who cant be depth callups to save like ~300k
Ok gotcha good planz
Hit the post
I have your gold medal Zippy!
Nothing to stop the Canucks from offering Gaunce a contract at just under a million AFTER he hits free agency (one way deal). If he plays on the Comets, cap hit will be effectively removed. Only question is, do you want him to take up a contract slot (shouldn't be any issue if we didn't have trash on the roster already wasting contract slots like the 'usual suspects').
I don’t think Gaunce can play in the NHL. Agree to disagree. He is also taking up a contract spot where an AHL vet won’t be. If Gaunce is willing to sign an AHL deal then sure why not
Intangibos
High-End Intangibos
Gaunce was on pace for 13 points last season, Beagle scored 22 that year and was on an 18 point pace this year. With how infrequently both of them score there is quite a bit of variance here. Gaunce also had tough deployment and makes 1/4 of what Beagle makes.
Cap aside Gaunce is a minor downgrade on Beagle who is supposedly an excellent 4th liner. When you include the value of cheap contracts and depth Gaunce is a significantly more valuable player (not saying he's as good/better than Beagle, just value to the team when you include the cap hit).
The game is about being an effective player for an a fair cap hit. There are a lot of players that are better than Gaunce, like seriously a lot of them, but you'll struggle to find someone who is overwhelmingly better than Gaunce for less than $2m which is more than double what Gaunce makes. I'd rather have a moneypuck 4th line to increase spending in the top 6/9 or on D.
The difference between 20 points and 13 points over and 82 game season is pretty meaningless, especially when you take volatility into account. Include Gaunce's 3 games this year and his 82 game pace in the NHL over the past 2 seasons (40 GP) is 18 points. This should show how extreme the variance is when you're talking about 10-20 point players.
Gaunce is the ultimate moneypuck 4th liner, his value is in his contract rather than his play. It's like how valuable Bonino should have been as a trade chip. He wasn't an amazing player or anything, but he was making $1.9m while playing 2C on a 100 point team, what team with cap space wouldn't like to add a 2/3c for <$2m? The 5 points you lose with Gaunce, which again could just be due to the margin of error with the sample size, could be gained elsewhere with $1m+ to spend.
TryamkinPleaseReturn
Rapidly Shrinking Cult
- Feb 7, 2019
- 622
- 646
Hahaha Good one! Because we all know if there's one thing Jim Benning's known for it's building a quality farm system
Gaunce was always fringe. He topped out at major Junior after a huge Midget career. At the time of his draft, Gaunce was showing he could score in Major Junior and, in a poor draft year, that was enough for him to get some notice. However, his numbers didn't really improve in subsequent Junior years and he was unable to make the U 20 National team illustrating his career was leveling out.
Nor did he improve offensively at the pro level. Yet in the barren Canucks farm system, he was seen as an alternative and provided a chance on some pretty poor Canuck teams. Given the growing evidence that Gaunce lacked any offensive potential, the Canucks tried to convert to a checking winger hoping to get something out of him. But this was never Gaunce's game. Despite his size, Gaunce was not really physically aggressive or much of a gritty banger and instead tried to play a more cerebral game.
Yet , for a time, this idea seemed like it might work as Gaunce enjoyed the best period of his NHL career as a 4th liner with Skille and Chaput. They weren't given much time (often only 5 or 6 minutes) and were fresh enough to be something of a disruptive energy line. However, Gaunce started having injury issues and then was mostly out of the lineup.
The next season Green gave Gaunce a chance but he quickly got himself into the doghouse by making critical defensive errors and again providing nothing offensively. Eventually he suffered a bad foot injury and his season faded into nothing. Moreover, the League was rapidly changing and speed and skating became critical elements to stay in the NHL. This was especially true for players who didn't score much and played lower line roles. Problem for Gaunce was that, while he had some straight ahead speed, he lacked much agility and his edge work was always iffy. In the end, the Canucks turned to people like Motte who were far better skaters.
Gaunce has been a polarizing player on these boards. Some have seen him as a potentially good 3rd line or 4th line center. Yet I, like others, didn't see the evidence for that. Gaunce was given chances but never excelled to the point where he showed obvious NHL ability . It always seemed Gaunce had to work especially hard to stay in the play given his lumbering skating style. If he was getting by you were happy. And, of course, there were the dry spells when you thought Gaunce would never score. Overall, I think the term "fringe" absolutely applies.
Whether he is much of a loss is to be determined. It will be interesting to see where his career heads and how he does. This will do a lot to determine if the claims made by the Gaunce supporters were exaggerated or justified.
Nor did he improve offensively at the pro level. Yet in the barren Canucks farm system, he was seen as an alternative and provided a chance on some pretty poor Canuck teams. Given the growing evidence that Gaunce lacked any offensive potential, the Canucks tried to convert to a checking winger hoping to get something out of him. But this was never Gaunce's game. Despite his size, Gaunce was not really physically aggressive or much of a gritty banger and instead tried to play a more cerebral game.
Yet , for a time, this idea seemed like it might work as Gaunce enjoyed the best period of his NHL career as a 4th liner with Skille and Chaput. They weren't given much time (often only 5 or 6 minutes) and were fresh enough to be something of a disruptive energy line. However, Gaunce started having injury issues and then was mostly out of the lineup.
The next season Green gave Gaunce a chance but he quickly got himself into the doghouse by making critical defensive errors and again providing nothing offensively. Eventually he suffered a bad foot injury and his season faded into nothing. Moreover, the League was rapidly changing and speed and skating became critical elements to stay in the NHL. This was especially true for players who didn't score much and played lower line roles. Problem for Gaunce was that, while he had some straight ahead speed, he lacked much agility and his edge work was always iffy. In the end, the Canucks turned to people like Motte who were far better skaters.
Gaunce has been a polarizing player on these boards. Some have seen him as a potentially good 3rd line or 4th line center. Yet I, like others, didn't see the evidence for that. Gaunce was given chances but never excelled to the point where he showed obvious NHL ability . It always seemed Gaunce had to work especially hard to stay in the play given his lumbering skating style. If he was getting by you were happy. And, of course, there were the dry spells when you thought Gaunce would never score. Overall, I think the term "fringe" absolutely applies.
Whether he is much of a loss is to be determined. It will be interesting to see where his career heads and how he does. This will do a lot to determine if the claims made by the Gaunce supporters were exaggerated or justified.
I first thought that Gaunce was one year away from UFA but he's not. I would have qualified Guance for depth reasons, but I understand that sometimes if you don't see an NHL role for the guy you are also doing him a favour by letting him go to another team.
As for Gaunce vs. Beagle. I think if Gaunce was thought of as a C we may not have this discussion, but he isn't.
As for Gaunce vs. Beagle. I think if Gaunce was thought of as a C we may not have this discussion, but he isn't.
Askel
By the way Benning should be fired.
Gaunce looken fine as a center Utica this year. This organisation arena to have decided that he is a winger.
Not sure Gaunce is more than a 4th limer, but he has looken like a decent depth option the last few years. Hope he gets a chance in another organisation and does well, always been rooting for him.
Still he is probably not someone who is hard to replace
Not sure Gaunce is more than a 4th limer, but he has looken like a decent depth option the last few years. Hope he gets a chance in another organisation and does well, always been rooting for him.
Still he is probably not someone who is hard to replace
The team can only have so many waiver fodder players so this makes sense. The quota has already been met.
Hit the post
I have your gold medal Zippy!
Oh please spare me the indignation. You know very well we had a great AHL vet center just this past season under contract.
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That is, to play for our AHL rivals
Hit the post
I have your gold medal Zippy!
This is Fredo speaking: Sorry I had to tell you Tony, but had a problem. We tried to do everything we could with Gaunce but he’s gone and there’s nothing we can do about it. It was some real greaseball ****. And we’ll just have to take it.
Chuck Feathers
Registered User
- May 2, 2019
- 47
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Just curious whether any of those doing all the hand-wringing over the letting go of a 25 year old 26th overall pick 7 years ago who has had NHL opportunities in each of the last 4 seasons and overall hasn't done much with them... are some of the same people who have already written off a 20 y/o 5th overall pick dman who has yet to play a game because of injury setbacks?
Chuck Feathers
Registered User
- May 2, 2019
- 47
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Comparing Gaunce to Beagle is beyond silly... aside from the rest of their careers, just this year alone Beagle was on the #1 PK unit, 3rd on the team in hits, 6th in blocked shots... and despite getting 82% D zone starts.. BY FAR the highest on the team, still scored at close to his usual 20 point pace.. he is clearly a replacement for Sutter as soon as Benning can find a taker for the latter.
Oh and he played a significant role in winning this shiney silver cup thingy just last year so there's that whole experience/leadership thing some place value in...
Oh and he played a significant role in winning this shiney silver cup thingy just last year so there's that whole experience/leadership thing some place value in...
Josepho
i want the bartkowski thread back
Let’s just see where Gaunce is when the upcoming season begins. If he’s on an NHL roster then management can get some crow. If he’s back in the A that would reinforce the decision the team made to cut him loose.
BenningHurtsMySoul
Unfair Huggy Bear
RobertKron
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2007
- 15,571
- 8,807
That only works if they actually replace him effectively. They’ve been trash at building system depth, so you’ll have to excuse my skepticism.
Chuck Feathers
Registered User
- May 2, 2019
- 47
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Seriously?
#1 Pker on that team... that alone is a significant role by any measure...
#1 Faceoff man on the team won at 60%... again highly significant...
#2 in blocked shots
Throw in 8 points, 23 hits, 9 takeaways and +7 in 23 games.
In what universe is that not a significant role?
Chuck Feathers
Registered User
- May 2, 2019
- 47
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Also have to think Benning had an eye on future playoffs with the Beagle signing, and for good reason:
“He’s made for the playoffs,” said goalie Braden Holtby, teammates with Beagle since 2009 with Hershey. “I’ve seen Jay play in the playoffs for a long time. That guy is an absolute warrior. He’s a gamer — he shows up every single game and does the little things right. He’s probably one of, if not the most, respected guy in our locker room.”
“He’s an ultimate pro,” said teammate T.J. Oshie. “He comes to the rink every day and puts in twice the effort and twice the work as everyone else.”
Yeah for sure I hear stuff like that said about Gaunce all the time...
Jay Beagle’s journey comes full circle as Capitals eye Stanley Cup in Vegas | WTOP
If anything I would say Green underutilized him but he's done that with a number of guys... doesn't change that Beagle is the exact kind of guy you need in the playoffs and the exact kind of example you want to have for your young pros, and with most of the vets that provided that example on this team gone, it was an area of importance for all the young talent on this team.
“He’s made for the playoffs,” said goalie Braden Holtby, teammates with Beagle since 2009 with Hershey. “I’ve seen Jay play in the playoffs for a long time. That guy is an absolute warrior. He’s a gamer — he shows up every single game and does the little things right. He’s probably one of, if not the most, respected guy in our locker room.”
“He’s an ultimate pro,” said teammate T.J. Oshie. “He comes to the rink every day and puts in twice the effort and twice the work as everyone else.”
Yeah for sure I hear stuff like that said about Gaunce all the time...
Jay Beagle’s journey comes full circle as Capitals eye Stanley Cup in Vegas | WTOP
If anything I would say Green underutilized him but he's done that with a number of guys... doesn't change that Beagle is the exact kind of guy you need in the playoffs and the exact kind of example you want to have for your young pros, and with most of the vets that provided that example on this team gone, it was an area of importance for all the young talent on this team.
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Sorry, but you simply can't pay a 33 year old center $3m a season for three goals. I don't care what other 'intangibles' the guy is supposed to bring to the table. It was an awful UFA signing, that'll only look worse as his four year contract runs its course.
At some point Jimbo is going to understand that you can't dole out big money and term for bottom-six forwards. But it might come too late to save his job. In a salary cap world, a player like Gaunce will always make more sense than Beagle.
At some point Jimbo is going to understand that you can't dole out big money and term for bottom-six forwards. But it might come too late to save his job. In a salary cap world, a player like Gaunce will always make more sense than Beagle.
wavaxa2
Registered User
- Sep 24, 2010
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Not that it changes your argument that much, but Juolevi is 21 now. Pretty sure this was mentioned before.
Chuck Feathers
Registered User
- May 2, 2019
- 47
- 15
You've got to look beyond points... it's hardly as if Beagle was brought in for his offense, it was very specifically stated that he was signed to take the defensive load off of others... hence the 82% D zone starts, impressive he managed as many points as he did.
And PK, faceoffs, blocked shots etc are far from "intangibles".
And PK, faceoffs, blocked shots etc are far from "intangibles".
Chuck Feathers
Registered User
- May 2, 2019
- 47
- 15
Doesn't change the argument at all, so why not respond to it instead of the red herring?
sn
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