Breakthrough season for Eichel

[Voodoo Child]

Screed...

Guy, no one's saying Eichel is a bad player, they're saying he's a very good one who could be but isn't yet a great one.

And what would trouble me is that people are saying the same things they've been saying for the last four years.

- Inconsistent shift to shift intensity.
- Still can't win face offs.
- Doesn't shoot enough.
- Questionable IQ.
- Inconsistent 200 foot effort.

And while I personally don't have an issue with it, some people are rubbed the wrong way by his 'attitude'.

McDavid is McDavid. He's in a class of his own, but saying there's some sort of massive gulf between him and the next three is something Oilers fans cling to because their team has him and still sucks. He isn't going to win all the trophies every year.

Then Matthews, Barkov and MacKinnon in whichever order you prefer.

I like Matthews here as he's the youngest by two years (and was better younger than those two), and for my money he's both the second best U23 forward offensively and defensively (hands down the best goal scorer) behind McDavid and Barkov respectively. He has absolutely put a considerable amount of distance between him and Eichel.

Then MacKinnon and Barkov, flip a coin. Barkov's game is so refined its scary, but MacKinnon has one in a million physical gifts. Flipping a coin, I would probably rate Mack a small notch higher.

Then a drop to the next tier which I would place Eichel in, with Draisaitl, Laine, Barzal and Marner.

Then another drop - Rantanen, Pastrnak, Keller and Aho.

Then another drop - Nylander, Larkin, Point, Ehlers and Boeser.

And finally another drop - M. Tkachuk, PLD, Debrincat and Mantha.

And so on and so on. If anybody was going to penetrate that second tier, I'd bet on Barzal, Marner and Laine before Eichel (Laine actually once was in that tier but he's far too streaky).

 

[tsujimoto74]

Because MacKinnon always had absolutely insane skills and he constantly destroyed the WHC so it felt like something was holding him back, which it was.

Eichel just doesn't have the pure skill that MacKinnon does. Therefore such a breakout with everything clicking is unlikely.

lol what. There are lots of hot take in this thread, but this one's just absurd. Eichel has an extraordinary natural talent and athleticism.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

At first I thought this was a parody of some sort...but, no...it’s sadly real. They should put warnings before Buffalo Sabres games, since I know the guy who does the “Sabres Hockey is brought to you by” I should tell ol’ Ralph to add a disclaimer “WARNING: Watching your team lose for decades can cause delusional behaviour and misplaced anger, viewer discretion is advised”.

Tell me? How many wins does ROR have?

Evander Kane?

They both went to better teams and don’t have as many wins as a team captained by Jack Eichel.

Your not actually blaming the best player we’ve had in 20 years since HASEK who dances by every teams best d-men every game with ease and producers multiple glorious scoring chances a night are you? What about the others who aren’t producing? Goalless Sam? Housley for not playing Skinner with Eichel and giving up on that idea after one game we lost 4-0 which I I KNEW was more of an indication where the bruins were (5-1) then we probably were. As the records here indicate thus far (3-3). They did just come off a 7-0 loss and had a chance to get the taste out of their mouths 24 hours later.

People can say what they want but Eichs always been our leading scorer no matter how many games he plays, he’s our best forward in twenty five years since lafontaine and has had multiple chances every game. Some of them are ridiculously close that I can’t help but think would be goals on any other first line, Sheary fanning on an empty net tap in, Sam “I forget the season starts in October” Reinhart hitting how many posts fed to him by Eichel now? Is it four? Or just three? Seriously these aren’t just chances but would be goals, and has caught bad breaks like the “GOAL” he created through the legs he set up against the avs that was called a goal three times only for the fourth time to be said, nah that doesent count. The NHL needs to change that setup by the way. I’ve seen other fans complain but when it happens to you, yeah it’s annoying.


You talk about Mackinnon and Matthews and McD, yeah these guys are on an absolute tear, I agree that’s hard to watch at times even though I like mcdavid and the oilers but your looking at three teams here 27 other teams don’t he those guys either. We got an amazing franchise center who a lot of teams would want as the Third guy said.

He generates just as much offense or near it as all these other guys you named besides mcdavid and just because he doesn’t have a rantanen, marner, or nugent-Hopkins doesent make him less great. I wouldn’t even defend Eichel if he wasn’t all these things and I’d be right there with ya. He ain’t perfect man. But he’s far from the issue, he’s still just 22 after all .....and I’ve seen improvement in his maturity and leadership. Even his defensive game on some nights, no reason to think the other stuff Wont come.

This is about as misguided as the Edmonton journalists suggesting to trade mcdavid when they started 0-2. It’s called sticking with your team. Go for a run or something man. Blow off some steam, lol.









You clearly haven’t warned him play...like ever.....

Not close to Mackinnon? Lol he outscored Mackinnon year before last despite missing an entire two months nd playing the whole year get as a 20 yr old kid. Matthews? He had a higher points per game then Matthews since Auston entered the league until just two weeks ago (0.94>>>0.88) and that’s despite going up against the legues top checkers, and coming off two sprained ankles. (While having to play two different and bad coaching systems)

I have no problem with anyone saying he’s not as good as them presently but saying he’s not evenose? That’s beyond ridiculous and would only come from someone who hasn’t watched him play the game, or hasn’t some agenda, or both. And deep down, you know that too. I wouldn’t even waste my time defending him if this wasn’t true.






Are you kidding right now?

Trying to get eichel and then saying “botch another trade” you do realize Eichels averaged more points per game then auston Matthews since auston arrived in the NHL just until two weeks ago right?




He has a motor it’s just not channeled correctly. I’ve seen eichel turn it on so many times only for a dimwit to shoot the puck into the mesh, go offside, make a pass to far, fan on a tap in, etc


Your really not giving him enough credit here, he generates so much offense every game it isn’t even funny. Kessel use to flat out take games off and not care. Eichel cares more thn anyone on the team.

Matthews doesn't play with Marner unless it's a PP, otherwise He's with Kapanen and Marleau

 

[sr edler]

Does he play like a center? I haven't watched him much since some clips before and right after he was drafted.

And the question isn't does he play center, because I know he does and anyone can technically appear anywhere, but does he play like a center, because what I saw back then regarding body language, skating lanes, etc. was relatively reminiscing of a winger.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Matthews doesn't play with Marner unless it's a PP, otherwise He's with Kapanen and Marleau

I’m well Aware of that.

I was just pointing out the powerplay. Which he’s getting lots of time on now. Point wasn’t really about Matthews no need to defend him no ones saying he’s worse then anyone. Marleau is a future hall of famer too.

I’m not saying Matthews depends on Marleau that’s ridiculous but it helps, just a little when you get a nylander or a Marleau or PP time with marner tavares and Reilly.

We get skinner and housley s too inept to put him with Eichel after one game where they were hust getting there legs going. One game. The bruins were going to beat anyone that night I’ve said that the day it happened and we win the net two with Eichel playing with Sheary so he’s just kept it that way. Apparently reinhart forgets when the season starts every year. Looks nothing like the guy who had 37 pts in 39 games and I’m about done with him. It’s way too early Christ, if he didn’t have 5 pts in 6 games and the team was 0-6 instead of 3-3 how much worse would it be on here.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Guy, no one's saying Eichel is a bad player, they're saying he's a very good one who could be but isn't yet a great one.

And what would trouble me is that people are saying the same things they've been saying for the last four years.

- Inconsistent shift to shift intensity.
- Still can't win face offs.
- Doesn't shoot enough.
- Questionable IQ.
- Inconsistent 200 foot effort.

And while I personally don't have an issue with it, some people are rubbed the wrong way by his 'attitude'.

McDavid is McDavid. He's in a class of his own, but saying there's some sort of massive gulf between him and the next three is something Oilers fans cling to because their team has him and still sucks. He isn't going to win all the trophies every year.

Then Matthews, Barkov and MacKinnon in whichever order you prefer.

I like Matthews here as he's the youngest by two years (and was better younger than those two), and for my money he's both the second best U23 forward offensively and defensively (hands down the best goal scorer) behind McDavid and Barkov respectively. He has absolutely put a considerable amount of distance between him and Eichel.

Then MacKinnon and Barkov, flip a coin. Barkov's game is so refined its scary, but MacKinnon has one in a million physical gifts. Flipping a coin, I would probably rate Mack a small notch higher.

Then a drop to the next tier which I would place Eichel in, with Draisaitl, Laine, Barzal and Marner.

Then another drop - Rantanen, Pastrnak, Keller and Aho.

Then another drop - Nylander, Larkin, Point, Ehlers and Boeser.

And finally another drop - M. Tkachuk, PLD, Debrincat and Mantha.

And so on and so on. If anybody was going to penetrate that second tier, I'd bet on Barzal, Marner and Laine before Eichel (Laine actually once was in that tier but he's far too streaky).

This isn’t about him being a bad player. It’s ludicrous to suggest he’s just “good”. He’s done nothing but play like a total superstar and is getting better and better each game. Your grasping and reaching with the criticisms, face offs? He went 57 percent the other night. Who cares about that he’s the only great center we got and forced to take more now that the best center in the NHL isn’t on the team. Tell you what, if he gets 70ish pts or less this season and plays a full year, then I will come out and say yeah he’s GOOD. That won’t happen though, if he plays a full year he’s getting 80 if his team starts to play with him he’s getting 90. Because he’s great.

Questionable hockey IQ, taking shifts off, all of this crap doesn’t even describe eichel and you clearly don’t watch him at all. You proved that when saying he doesent shoot enough yet he’s always top ten to fifteen in shots when healthy before going down You’ve conjured up some narrative that doesent even make sense that only leaf fans seem to want to believe. I don’t know who you cheer for but if it’s toronto I’m not surprised in the least. Toronto fans can’t take the comparisons because the Canadian media doesent talk about eichel at all and only want to compare auston to Connor to pleSse their demographic. The fact Austons off to such a great start makes this fact even worse.

You literally have described nothing that even fits the bill. The guy has finished 11th and 21st in points per game in just his second and third season despite having no players on his line that even get fifty points. He’s done that after two surgeries from an injury that is known to linger for a very long time. He plays against all the top competition unlike barkov, and Matthews. They have at least another scoring line buffalos offense is driven through eichel. They depend on him against every top defender and you have no clue the talent eichel is. He draws up some of the smartest plays I’ve seen game per game and a lot of the team are incapable of finishing it off. His stick to stick passing happens at a pace and rate where if you blinked you’d miss it. Only elite players do it like this. Great is even arguably an understatement, he is elite.

You’re telling me a guy that’s done all that is just “Good”? Okay...

I wouldn’t even defend eichel like this if he was just good. There would be no point, if just agree with you. The ultimate irony is I watch every leaf game. I also watch every sabres game and if their on at the same time I put the other on PVR. Eichel is absolutely just as good as Matthews, not as good this season but he’s produced more then him in the 16-17 season and going into this year has averaged more points per game then Auston since he’s entered the league. Eichel is getting underrated to a ridiculous amount now. Matthews hasn’t even hit 30 assists and Eichels done that in every season he’s ever played. Two of them shorted by an injury where he was out and missed a quarter of they year. Despite that he outscored Mackinnon in one of those two years despite being younger and playing hurt afterwards. The burying is too much you guys are literally going no where with this. The agenda is clear and no one takes you seriously because you don’t say anything that’s accurate with his style of play.

Matthews is ahead of him this season but eichel does just as much every game but the finish hasn’t been there this year. He’s had goals (highlight reel goals) called off, Reinharts hit mutiple posts and he missed an empty net hat trick by An inch. Sheary fanned on an open net too. These aren’t chances these are should be goals he would have 11 pts in five games. Give it some time And you’ll see how wrong you are after he plays a full year. Which he hasn’t done in in two seasons due to fluke Injury.

Despite that had still put up 126 pts in his last 133 games when up against the leagues best competition and 22 years old, yeah just good......

11th and 21st places finishesn in his first three seasons in points per game (among players who have played half a year) and does it all by himself. Yeah that’s not great. That’s why hes Making elite money and never listed on worst contracts lists.

Sorry but someone you describe is literally nothing like eichel and that tells me you simply don’t watch him. Tell me what shifts he’s taken off. Seriously go back and tell me which ones I’d love to see them, because every time I watch eichel he does what he can to create offense but is faced against the best defenders and at times that and the goalie get the better of his line. The only thing I’d say he needs to do more is shoot. I don’t mean just shoot in general I mean shoot at the better chances he has. He at times can try and make the perfect play and then at other times when he does shoot it’s because he hasn’t got a shot in awhile durnto the fact he took the shift before cheating that great play.

He’s elite.

Someone like laine or Barzal? They seem very good. But not great, Barzal and hischier these guys are getting a taste out of what its like now to be a number one center out against the best competition. (John Hynes said he sheltered hischier to protect him in matchups last year S a rookie) something eichel has done his whole career and guess who still produces like a pro? Jack Eichel.

and now that the sabres have gotten negativity out of the room with Kane Lehner and ror (oh surprising none of those three with their new teams has as many wins as a team captained by eichel) it will only get better.

Get your shots in while you can his play has done and will continue to do the talking.

 

[biotk]

Guy, no one's saying Eichel is a bad player, they're saying he's a very good one who could be but isn't yet a great one.

And what would trouble me is that people are saying the same things they've been saying for the last four years.

- Inconsistent shift to shift intensity.
- Still can't win face offs.
- Doesn't shoot enough.
- Questionable IQ.
- Inconsistent 200 foot effort.

Several people have been saying the bolded part?

Over the last 3 years the only forwards to have more shots per game at 5v5 are: E. Kane, Skinner, Tarasenko, Bergeron and Gallagher.

I have found the opposite - too often on zone entries Eichel should make a pass but instead gets a low danger shot when being pushed to the perimeter.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Several people have been saying the bolded part?

Over the last 3 years the only forwards to have more shots per game at 5v5 are: E. Kane, Skinner, Tarasenko, Bergeron and Gallagher.

I have found the opposite - too often on zone entries Eichel should make a pass but instead gets a low danger shot when being pushed to the perimeter.

Exactly, it just goes to show they don’t know what they’re talking about. Lol

It’s like the game telephone.

One of them says something, the other what’s to believe it repeats it, then you got three leaf fans (sorry people) repeating it over and over and it doesent matter if it’s true or not.

They say he doesn’t shoot enough (he shoots too much when he shouldn’t to be honest) and then when he should he doesent, that and some back checks (which he’s getting better at) are the two biggest flaws to his game.


He’s becoming a well rounded player he just needs some help, like mcdavid but of course no one blames him. Eichels not on his level but they share similar problems.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

I’m well Aware of that.

I was just pointing out the powerplay. Which he’s getting lots of time on now. Point wasn’t really about Matthews no need to defend him no ones saying he’s worse then anyone. Marleau is a future hall of famer too.

I’m not saying Matthews depends on Marleau that’s ridiculous but it helps, just a little when you get a nylander or a Marleau or PP time with marner tavares and Reilly.

We get skinner and housley s too inept to put him with Eichel after one game where they were hust getting there legs going. One game. The bruins were going to beat anyone that night I’ve said that the day it happened and we win the net two with Eichel playing with Sheary so he’s just kept it that way. Apparently reinhart forgets when the season starts every year. Looks nothing like the guy who had 37 pts in 39 games and I’m about done with him. It’s way too early Christ, if he didn’t have 5 pts in 6 games and the team was 0-6 instead of 3-3 how much worse would it be on here.

"Matthews getting lots of PP time now...."

Matthews - 2:22/game good for 168th in the league.

Eichel - 5:13/game good for 6th in the league.

 

[613Leafer]

Eichel's PPG for his age is much better than MacKinnon's was. MacKinnon's first three seasons he had 153 points in 218 games (~58 point pace). Eichel's is 177 in 209 (~69 point pace), with his last two seasons both being just under a PPG.

Give him some decent wingers, better PMD (which he should get out of Dahlin + further development of Ristolainen), a healthy season, etc, and he could easily be a ~85+ point centre at age 22, which very very few guys have done in the last 10 or so years.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

"Matthews getting lots of PP time now...."

Matthews - 2:22/game good for 168th in the league.

Eichel - 5:13/game good for 6th in the league.

Meant lots compared to what he was used to getting. And it had nothing to do with the original point made I wasn’t bashing Matthews. Nor was I saying eichel didn’t get a lot of PP time. Don’t even compare Eichels PP to The leafs PP, that wouldn’t be kind sir Isaac.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Meant lots compared to what he was used to getting. And it had nothing to do with the original point made I wasn’t bashing Matthews. Nor was I saying eichel didn’t get a lot of PP time. Don’t even compare Eichels PP to The leafs PP, that wouldn’t be kind sir Isaac.

Lots to what he used to get?

2:09 last year.

2:22 this year.

 

[93LEAFS]

I was ready to start some discussion with you here with your “Well he WAS once an elite talent....” which sounded more like the beginning of a Eulogy then a rational argument. Lol

However I’m inclined to agree with you on all points but that, He’s still an elite talent. Just depends on what defines elite to you, to me it means top 30 Forward number one center. Would the bottom five go ten teams in this league want him as a number one center right now? If the answer is yes then he is a top 30 forward. Finished 11th and 21st in PPG for players having played at least half a year in his second and third seasons despite not having a linemates with over 50ish pts.



I do welcome posts like this what you said and I think it’s sound advice. He does need to stop wearing his emotion on his sleeve.

I’ve payed close attention to this aspect In His game in the first six games. And the sad part is I think he’s trying to improve on these things but it’s just not there text. In the first game when Boston got that whooping and we were losing 4-0 last year he would of slammed the stick on the net and stormed off. This year he looked upset but didn’t get carried away. When we won last year same thing, he’s talk about how everything’s better and bla bla, but he was well take it and we like the atmosphere here now too.”

However it’s starting to slip again. In the vegas game he started showing his frustrations and I just think after a matter of time it catches up with you. He’s still just 22. He’s making an effort as captain I’ve noticed quite a few things he’s done differently but I just think it will take more time. Something sabres fans (as you can see with this thread) cant bear, but have no choice too. I have no problem with him as our number one center. I’ve watched the games and it’s hilarious how many points he could have already this season but doesent due to the inept ability to finish off plays. These are literally tap ins I’m talking about. But the way I see it. Over an 82 game schedule? Those are going to start hitting their mark.

But will the rest of them? Who knows and either way eichel is going to get the blame, some of which may be warranted ...but some of course not. That’s the way to goes in pro sports when your the lead dog on a team that isn’t winning.

By elite talent, I was purely referring to as a draft talent. I simply meant that he was an elite talent and a great prospect, but not what he was billed or expected to be by some. The expectation that he was clearly above prospects like Tavares, Doughty, Stamkos, Hedman, Hall and MacKinnon was a bit far reaching. He belonged in the discussion with them, not clearly above. The term generational is being thrown around so much it now means basically a franchise player level talent, and not what it was meant to. He's shown that he can be an elite player in this league, but he needs to round things out. I generally stop using the word talent or prospect once a guy enters the league, at that point their a player.

 

[Royal Thunder]

Guy, no one's saying Eichel is a bad player, they're saying he's a very good one who could be but isn't yet a great one.

And what would trouble me is that people are saying the same things they've been saying for the last four years.

- Inconsistent shift to shift intensity.
- Still can't win face offs.
- Doesn't shoot enough.
- Questionable IQ.
- Inconsistent 200 foot effort.

And while I personally don't have an issue with it, some people are rubbed the wrong way by his 'attitude'.

McDavid is McDavid. He's in a class of his own, but saying there's some sort of massive gulf between him and the next three is something Oilers fans cling to because their team has him and still sucks. He isn't going to win all the trophies every year.

Then Matthews, Barkov and MacKinnon in whichever order you prefer.

I like Matthews here as he's the youngest by two years (and was better younger than those two), and for my money he's both the second best U23 forward offensively and defensively (hands down the best goal scorer) behind McDavid and Barkov respectively. He has absolutely put a considerable amount of distance between him and Eichel.

Then MacKinnon and Barkov, flip a coin. Barkov's game is so refined its scary, but MacKinnon has one in a million physical gifts. Flipping a coin, I would probably rate Mack a small notch higher.

Then a drop to the next tier which I would place Eichel in, with Draisaitl, Laine, Barzal and Marner.

Then another drop - Rantanen, Pastrnak, Keller and Aho.

Then another drop - Nylander, Larkin, Point, Ehlers and Boeser.

And finally another drop - M. Tkachuk, PLD, Debrincat and Mantha.

And so on and so on. If anybody was going to penetrate that second tier, I'd bet on Barzal, Marner and Laine before Eichel (Laine actually once was in that tier but he's far too streaky).

Wow lots to digest here but having Laine above Pastrnak and Aho, and in the same tier as Eichel and Marner, is just outrageous IMO. If Laine can't get his shot off he's a totally ineffective player. He's nowhere close to an Ovechkin-level talent.

 

[SabresSharks]

Sometimes that's very true, though. Especially when players have all the talent in the world but no results, people quickly jump to false rationalizations about hockey IQ. You heard about Nathan MacKinnon up until halfway into last season. As a Flames fan I hear about it with Sam Bennett by people who can't see past the occasional botched play, and I'm still hearing it about Micheal Ferland with appeals to buzz words like consistency.

Heck even Sidney Crosby has his local doubters at times.

People seem to overestimate the cerebral aspect of the game trying to find the next Bergeron while overlooking game breaking skill from young players and can't reconcile that a lot of these young players are not finished products and certainly not in the best position to succeed. Steve Yzerman wasn't always the Steve Yzerman that we remember either.

As a Flames fan, I have seen enough of Jack Eichel to have zero doubt whatsoever he would hands down be the best player on my team. As far as comparisions to guys like Matthews and Barkov, is there any doubt those guys have better linemates and defensemen? And chemistry isn't just automatic, sometimes even the best players need the exact Kunitz or Burrows to complete their skillset.

I'll concede that sometimes one can be too close to a situation to grasp the bigger picture, and an outsider's perspective can be invaluable.

Eichel has shown us many times the player he's capable of being, but we don't see that player nearly often enough. The question yet to be conclusively answered is "will we ever?".

 

[Ryan Michaels]

Came for the Jack Attack novel, was not disappointed. Also happy to see his boy Evander Kane still featured.

 

[X66]

Not close to Mackinnon? Lol he outscored Mackinnon year before last despite missing an entire two months nd playing the whole year get as a 20 yr old kid. Matthews? He had a higher points per game then Matthews since Auston entered the league until just two weeks ago (0.94>>>0.88) and that’s despite going up against the legues top checkers, and coming off two sprained ankles. (While having to play two different and bad coaching systems)

I have no problem with anyone saying he’s not as good as them presently but saying he’s not evenose? That’s beyond ridiculous and would only come from someone who hasn’t watched him play the game, or hasn’t some agenda, or both. And deep down, you know that too. I wouldn’t even waste my time defending him if this wasn’t true.

Are you kidding right now?

Trying to get eichel and then saying “botch another trade” you do realize Eichels averaged more points per game then auston Matthews since auston arrived in the NHL just until two weeks ago right?

.

I've seen you post this so many times, but a couple of things.

Your information has been wrong here every time you posted this...

Where do you get the 0.88 points per-game? Matthews points per-game his first two years was 0.91(combined)

The other thing is, comparing those two years is so arbitrary, comparing Matthews rookie year to Eichel's sophomore etc.

People have been pumping Matthews more than Eichel because at every comparable level he seems to come out on top.

Their draft years:

Matthews had a much better WJC-20 (compared to Eichel's draft year)
He was much better at the world championships (compared to Eichel's draft year)
He was better at the World Cup(on Eichel's team, Eichel was a sophomore)

NHL years

Matthews had a better NHL rookie year
Matthews had a better sophomore year

 

[FalcorMulch]

He had a higher points per game then Matthews since Auston entered the league until just two weeks ago (0.94>>>0.88)

You bust out this same misleading stat in every single thread you post in. It's pretty convenient for you to include Matthews' rookie season but not Eichel's. I especially like how you now have to cherry pick even harder and exclude the start of this season because your own BS stat no longer works in your favor. Your mental gymnastics are impressive.

Eichel is a great player, he'll be Buffalo's franchise C for a long time, but Matthews separated himself from him last season and he's widening the gap this season.

 

[FalcorMulch]

I've seen you post this so many times, but a couple of things.

Your information has been wrong here every time you posted this...

Where do you get the 0.88 points per-game? Matthews points per-game his first two years was 0.91(combined)

The other thing is, comparing those two years is so arbitrary, comparing Matthews rookie year to Eichel's sophomore etc.

Yep, he does it in every single thread and it's such a BS misleading stat. I believe his 0.88 is including playoff games which is an even worse stat than he normally uses because (1) no one includes playoffs in career point per game stats unless they explicitly say so, (2) Eichel doesn't have any playoff games to compare, and (3) to put the extra cherry on top he rounded down when he should have rounded up (it's 0.885).

He's the king of cherry picking numbers to suit his argument.

 

[Sypher04]

For those making the claim, I think simply saying swapping Eichel and Matthews would invert their production, individual success is a gross oversimplification.

It's a fact that the Leafs are a better team than the Sabres and that affords certain advantages but the Sabres also as constructed play a style that forces their offense through Eichel and that really shouldn't be discounted either. There are all kinds of differences in usage context between these players for and against either side. Nor do they excel at the same skills

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Lots to what he used to get?

2:09 last year.

2:22 this year.

Then what’s all this he never used to get PP time crap you would all say left right and center in every discussion. First unit? Is that the difference? I know he’s there now but I can’t remember the roster of every other teams players on their special teams in each and every season.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Guy, no one's saying Eichel is a bad player, they're saying he's a very good one who could be but isn't yet a great one.

And what would trouble me is that people are saying the same things they've been saying for the last four years.

- Inconsistent shift to shift intensity.
- Still can't win face offs.
- Doesn't shoot enough.
- Questionable IQ.
- Inconsistent 200 foot effort.

And while I personally don't have an issue with it, some people are rubbed the wrong way by his 'attitude'.

McDavid is McDavid. He's in a class of his own, but saying there's some sort of massive gulf between him and the next three is something Oilers fans cling to because their team has him and still sucks. He isn't going to win all the trophies every year.

Then Matthews, Barkov and MacKinnon in whichever order you prefer.

I like Matthews here as he's the youngest by two years (and was better younger than those two), and for my money he's both the second best U23 forward offensively and defensively (hands down the best goal scorer) behind McDavid and Barkov respectively. He has absolutely put a considerable amount of distance between him and Eichel.

Then MacKinnon and Barkov, flip a coin. Barkov's game is so refined its scary, but MacKinnon has one in a million physical gifts. Flipping a coin, I would probably rate Mack a small notch higher.

Then a drop to the next tier which I would place Eichel in, with Draisaitl, Laine, Barzal and Marner.

Then another drop - Rantanen, Pastrnak, Keller and Aho.

Then another drop - Nylander, Larkin, Point, Ehlers and Boeser.

And finally another drop - M. Tkachuk, PLD, Debrincat and Mantha.

And so on and so on. If anybody was going to penetrate that second tier, I'd bet on Barzal, Marner and Laine before Eichel (Laine actually once was in that tier but he's far too streaky).

C

Yep, he does it in every single thread and it's such a BS misleading stat. I believe his 0.88 is including playoff games which is an even worse stat than he normally uses because (1) no one includes playoffs in career point per game stats unless they explicitly say so, (2) Eichel doesn't have any playoff games to compare, and (3) to put the extra cherry on top he rounded down when he should have rounded up (it's 0.885).

He's the king of cherry picking numbers to suit his argument.

Lol cherry picking stats. I come out and say Matthews is better, I list nothing but correct numbers and have numerous leaf fans post nothing to credit Eichel, and numerous lies about him yet I actually watch both guys.

But I’m the guy who cherry picks stats or makes them up?

Iwas counting what I said I was counting. The second Matthews stepped in the league October of 16 to this season. (So that same time frame for eichel from those dates)

Obviously I’m not including this year which is why I said up until this season mainly because it’s five games in and Matthews isn’t going to average 2 pts a game all year (small sample size toronto has played easier teams too, not that I think you won’t win against great teams)

I wasn’t including playoffs either. Bu If I did include playoffs there isn’t a single season Matthews has finished with a higher points per game then eichel head to head. 0.95 for both last year (Matthews 65 in 69 and eichel 64 in 67) thats pretty simple. And in 15-16 he beat his average by 0.10 0.94 to 0.84.

So yeah I’m totally just throwing numbers around.

All I said was from the start of Matthews career head to head against eichel so head to head means the same time just so your with me here, because you can’t seen to understand it any time I say it due to eichel winning, which I know is unfathomable for anyone in Toronto but October 16 to this past summer head to head (without playoffs) Matthews had averaged 0.88 and eichel in that time during two injury shortened seasons averaged 0.94

Which means he’s up 0.6 during that span.

I’m not saying he’s better right now or getting into this again but I’m just showing you how I came to the conclusion to show you I’m not making anything up.

 

[LongWayDown37]

Not happening. Same old Jack. A fresh start, a $10M a year contract, the captaincy and it means nothing. As a lifelong Sabres fan it's not easy to accept but accept we must. Many people here and elsewhere thought he'd break out in a way similar to Nathan Mackinnon, he won't, it's not in his personality though it's not all about his makeup as a person he's also got a fairly pedestrian hockey IQ, it's Year 4, he'll be a point per game or slightly better but the McDavids, Matthews's, Mackinnons have left him in the dust. His wingman Reinhart has 0 goals. The Sabres tanked hard and deliberately for 2 seasons, their fans suffered, and the reward for that suffering was Sam Reinhart and Jack Eichel. Hard to criticize the GM's, 31 other GM's would have taken Eichel 2nd overall and probably half of GM's would have taken Reinhart.

Better coaching would help but Sabres fans who cleave to that as some magic key that unlocks his potential are dreaming. Great talent, good player but generational was a fantasy and franchise player is looking to be beyond him as well.

The Sabres are 3-3 on the season, if they had last year's tandem of Lehner and Johnson in goal they'd be 1-5 or 0-6.

WTF is this?

 

[Snippit]

WTF is this?

A knee jerk thread.

 

[Kevs Security]

This is a wild ride of a thread. As a Leafs fan I'm not here to trash Eichel, he's a super talented fella. And he could end up better than Matthews down the line, who knows. But at this point it's not unfair to Eichel to favor Matthews between them two.