Confirmed with Link: Brayden Schenn traded to St. Louis for 27th OV, Jori Lehtera, Future 1st rounder

[Patrick Division]

What difference does only long contract spanning to 2019 make versus multiple bad contracts for inferior players spanning until 2019?

How do you not get it??? He knew he had to re sign Schenn, Couturier and Voracek and needed to clear money off the books. He knew he could buy Umberger out and afford to do that. Also didn't know if he could get rid of VLC and Prongers contract. He had just taken over a **** show from Holmgren. He's done a masterful job of cleaning up Homers mess. Why do you have to be so annoying and bring this up?

 

[Redpath]

How do you not get it??? He knew he had to re sign Schenn, Couturier and Voracek and needed to clear money off the books. He knew he could buy Umberger out and afford to do that. Also didn't know if he could get rid of VLC and Prongers contract. He had just taken over a **** show from Holmgren. He's done a masterful job of cleaning up Homers mess. Why do you have to be so annoying and bring this up?

And yet here we are in 2017 having able to have re-signed all of Schenn, Couturier, Voracek, and Gostisbehere still with added wasted cap room from Hextall. I'm not sure what you don't understand. I suppose it is because only Holmgren made mistakes and we can never acknowledge any wrongdoings Hextall does.

 

[Striiker]

What difference does only long contract spanning to 2019 make versus multiple bad contracts for inferior players spanning until 2019?

Because at the time the trade was made 2019 wasn't only two years away...

Just like there would be a difference in risk between Filppula's contract ending in 2019 vs it ending in 2025.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I understand its a defense mechanism to automatically revert to any "negative" impact a player brings after they were traded (Hartnell's penalties, Schenn's inconsistency/PP specialist) but you're kidding yourself if it wasn't bad asset management for a player with value, especially when the rationale for the trade has now been debunked.

I'm not kidding myself about anything, bud. I know exactly who and what he is and I like my hockey players to have at least an iota of functioning grey matter. If it was bad asset management (it wasn't), it's over and hasn't hurt us at all - we got smarter collectively the moment he walked out the door. I will fully admit to being the least pro-Hartnell Flyers fan in the world - while I appreciated his effort and everything, I never liked him as a player. But I don't think that is clouding my judgement - this was addition by subtraction IMO. We could have used his goals the last few seasons, no question - but can you imagine the strain all of his terrible penalties would have put on our terrible penalty killing units? At worst, this move is a total non-issue at this point.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

And yet here we are in 2017 having able to have re-signed all of Schenn, Couturier, Voracek, and Gostisbehere still with added wasted cap room from Hextall. I'm not sure what you don't understand. I suppose it is because only Holmgren made mistakes and we can never acknowledge any wrongdoings Hextall does.

If it was wrongdoing - and it wasn't - what is the point of bringing it up now? Why on Earth would we need Scott ****ing Hartnell moving forward? Maybe go look at the prospect poll and then tell me what there is to be dissatisfied with. We are so ****ing golden, bud. Look ahead, not back. You'll save yourself a fortune in Tums.

 

[Patrick Division]

And yet here we are in 2017 having able to have re-signed all of Schenn, Couturier, Voracek, and Gostisbehere still with added wasted cap room from Hextall. I'm not sure what you don't understand. I suppose it is because only Holmgren made mistakes and we can never acknowledge any wrongdoings Hextall does.

Because hindsight is 20/20. At the time things weren't this clear. The Hartnell trade is one of the lamest argument's on this board. Congratulations!!! I'd honestly rather read about DFF being unconvinced about Philippe Myers than this.

 

[Redpath]

Because at the time the trade was made 2019 wasn't only two years away...

Just like there would be a difference in risk between Filppula's contract ending in 2019 vs it ending in 2025.

But since the time of the trade we've gone Umberger>Umberger's buyout/Filppula>Lehtera. The goal was allegedly to clear up cap space from the duration of Hartnell's contract at the cost of not getting any value for him, and yet since they we've just added unhelpful contracts that would have spanned Hartnell's contract duration anyway.

I'm not kidding myself about anything, bud. I know exactly who and what he is and I like my hockey players to have at least an iota of functioning grey matter. If it was bad asset management (it wasn't), it's over and hasn't hurt us at all - we got smarter collectively the moment he walked out the door. I will fully admit to being the least pro-Hartnell Flyers fan in the world - while I appreciated his effort and everything, I never liked him as a player. But I don't think that is clouding my judgement - this was addition by subtraction IMO. We could have used his goals the last few seasons, no question - but can you imagine the strain all of his terrible penalties would have put on our terrible penalty killing units? At worst, this move is a total non-issue at this point.

Well if that is how you truly felt about Hartnell I'm not going to convince you otherwise, hell I was never even his #1 fan, but if you can't see a positive impact he brought even in relation to his stupidity, especially in comparison to RJ Umberger, I'm not sure what to tell you.

 

[Striiker]

But since the time of the trade we've gone Umberger>Umberger's buyout/Filppula>Lehtera. The goal was allegedly to clear up cap space from the duration of Hartnell's contract at the cost of not getting any value for him, and yet since they we've just added unhelpful contracts that would have spanned Hartnell's contract duration anyway.

Not just clear cap space, clear a contract that had the potential to be unmovable.

If Hartnell had regressed, as was fairly likely, then we'd have been screwed. The cap space wasn't just to make sure we can keep all our players, it was to fill holes, like Filppula does.

 

[Redpath]

If it was wrongdoing - and it wasn't - what is the point of bringing it up now? Why on Earth would we need Scott ****ing Hartnell moving forward? Maybe go look at the prospect poll and then tell me what there is to be dissatisfied with. We are so ****ing golden, bud. Look ahead, not back. You'll save yourself a fortune in Tums.

I never said we need Hartnell now, just pointing out that it was ultimately a bad trade and bad asset management, which we have established that you don't agree with.

Because hindsight is 20/20. At the time things weren't this clear. The Hartnell trade is one of the lamest argument's on this board. Congratulations!!! I'd honestly rather read about DFF being unconvinced about Philippe Myers than this.

It isn't hindsight, from the moment the trade happened Hextall added a bad contract in return and has done so twice more on his own choice.

It is actually astounding to see how bent out of shape people get at pointing out a flawed move by Hextall. I'm on board with the rebuild overall, but the guy walks on water in this forum.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Well if that is how you truly felt about Hartnell I'm not going to convince you otherwise, hell I was never even his #1 fan, but if you can't see a positive impact he brought even in relation to his stupidity, especially in comparison to RJ Umberger, I'm not sure what to tell you.

Of course I saw his positive aspects too, but I just never felt like they compensated for the negatives. I liked the trade because of the benefits and I never minded the fact that Hexy didn't make the best deal - the positives outweighed the negatives for me in that situation. But more than anything, I can never understand why this matters so much to people. I have never seen people talk about losing the vast bulk of Scott Mellanby's career - which is a much more understandable thing to rue - the way they talk about Hartnell. Of course Hartnell was much more recent and I'm like the only person still alive who watched Mellanby play, but it's still baffling to me. Especially right now when we have just added even more good young kids to the pool. Hartnell would be the Baby Ruth in that pool - not actually a turd, but really, really looks and floats exactly like a turd.

 

[Patrick Division]

I never said we need Hartnell now, just pointing our that it was ultimately a bad trade and bad asset management, which we have established that you don't agree with.



It isn't hindsight, from the moment the trade happened Hextall added a bad contract in return.

It is actually astounding to see how bent out of shape people get at pointing out a flawed move by Hextall. I'm on board with the rebuild overall, but the guy walks on water in the forum.

We had 2 great days on this board. So much good stuff. So many great thing's!! Then you come along being lame. Bringing up the lamest old dead argument and lame it all up. Good job lame-o. If there was the lame ass of the day award I would nominate you for digging this old lame dead trade back up and arguing it. Good job. Keep up the good work!!

 

[Redpath]

Not just clear cap space, clear a contract that had the potential to be unmovable.

If Hartnell had regressed, as was fairly likely, then we'd have been screwed. The cap space wasn't just to make sure we can keep all our players, it was to fill holes, like Filppula does.

Even if it does prove to be unmovable, we are sitting on Lehtera's practically equivalent cap until 2019.

 

[Curufinwe]

It'll be cool to see where Frost and Vorobyov come in the prospect polls.

On some teams they would be their two best center prospects.

 

[Redpath]

Of course I saw his positive aspects too, but I just never felt like they compensated for the negatives. I liked the trade because of the benefits and I never minded the fact that Hexy didn't make the best deal - the positives outweighed the negatives for me in that situation. But more than anything, I can never understand why this matters so much to people. I have never seen people talk about losing the vast bulk of Scott Mellanby's career - which is a much more understandable thing to rue - the way they talk about Hartnell. Of course Hartnell was much more recent and I'm like the only person still alive who watched Mellanby play, but it's still baffling to me. Especially right now when we have just added even more good young kids to the pool. Hartnell would be the Baby Ruth in that pool - not actually a turd, but really, really looks and floats exactly like a turd.

Again, we just disagree on Hartnell's negative vs positives. For awhile I could at least stomach the trade for the cap clearance purposes even if I thought Hextall was undervalued in the trade, but now we've gone and used cap space on questionable contracts anyway.

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To anyone upset with me having a different opinion than you on a bad trade, I am sorry. As a forum we should make sure to never consider anything in the Hextall era that doesn't immediately priortize 5 years from the current date.

 

[Patrick Division]

Again, we just disagree on Hartnell's negative vs positives. For awhile I could at least stomach the trade for the cap clearance purposes even if I thought Hextall was undervalued in the trade, but now we've gone and used cap space on questionable contracts anyway.

----------------

To anyone upset with me having a different opinion than you on a bad trade, I am sorry. As a forum we should make sure to never consider anything in the Hextall era that doesn't immediately priortize 5 years from the current date.

We're all very proud of you!!!

 

[flyersfan187]

I like what Hextall has done for the forward/d group for now and the future.

 

[Striiker]

Even if it does prove to be unmovable, we are sitting on Lehtera's practically equivalent cap until 2019.

And the team is in a different situation now versus then. A short contract like that isn't going to hurt us, no matter what the cap is. If it were more than two years it could be an issue, but it isn't, so it's not.

You have to realize that the unknown of it is a big factor here. It's east to predict our contract situation in one or two years, it's tougher the further you go.

 

[tade]

Umberger's contract (had it not been bought out) would be expiring this season, Vinny's next. If the Hartnell trade was done because fear of a cap crunch with Vinny and Hartnell on the books as we needed to sign the kids, that would mean the focus was to make sure Ghost needed to be signed in 2017. Even if Hextall knew Ghost would have emerged the way he did, he was still able to sign him with dead space on the books, be it Vinny, Lecavalier, Umberger's buyout, Filppula, or Lehtera.

You also dont understand that Filppula and Lehtera are significantly better players compared to likes of Umberger and Lecacalier in their tenures with the Flyers, so this comparison is way off. Very confident that both will help us to be better and deeper team next season. No reason to not think so. Umberger and Lecacalier were done.

This is why your opinion that the purpose of Hartnells trade was lost is nonsense.

+ as was mentioned these are short-term contracts for Filp and Lehtera, they are absolutely not a problem and totally different situation.

Hartnell's contract was highly risky back then, so it was smart move to trade him, the fact that the value was not good at the time is a different thing...

 

[The Madrigal]

I can't believe St. Louis sees Schenn as a center and wants to play him there.

 

[kudymen]

What I will miss for sure is Schenn's adamantium skull, impossible to concuss with anything less than a sledgehammer

 

[BackWithaVengeance]

I can't believe St. Louis sees Schenn as a center and wants to play him there.

But how fitting would it be if he now gets it and leads their first line.

 

[Winston Wolf]

Giroux
Voracek
Simmonds
Couturier
Patrick
Provorov
Gostisbehere
Gudas

Those guys to me are objectively much more important to this team next year. In the very near future, I think there's a great chance that Sanheim, Konecny, and possibly Lindblom will have more importance to this team than Schenn. For those of you that think this was a terrible trade, please explain to me how it is reasonable to pay your 11 or 12th most valuable player $5.125M a year in a league with a salary cap of ~$75M? Yeah, they could've afforded to keep him for the next 2-3 years, but he was gone as soon as Provorov and Konecny needed new deals. Hextall was smart to trade him after a "good" season while his value was high. Plus, the first rounders that Hextall received for Schenn will be entering the league on cheap ELCs in the same time frame that Provorov and Konecny are getting new expensive deals.

Hextall is trying to follow the Chicago model, not the LA Kings model of being overly loyal to players and turning what should be a contender into a dumpster fire.

 

[OzFlyers]

But how fitting would it be if he now gets it and leads their first line.

Stanley Cup for St Louis guaranteed now!

 

[healthyscratch]

I can't believe St. Louis sees Schenn as a center and wants to play him there.

I told a Blues fan not to expect to hear "what a setup by Schenn" too often next season.

Having said that, maybe it was our system, maybe it was his line mates, or a combo of both and he'll prosper at center in St Louis. I wish him luck and hope he succeeds.

 

[healthyscratch]

And OMG we're talking Hartnell again?!? I can't wait until June 2020 when we rehash this Schenn trade.