Confirmed with Link: Brayden Schenn traded to St. Louis for 27th OV, Jori Lehtera, Future 1st rounder

[TheKingPin]

I thought Schenn was fine, as a RW.

Problem was he and the team thought he was a center, which is a mistake, he's neither a playmaker nor a good enough skater to be a two way centerman like Couts and Patrick.

As a goal scoring RW who brings physical play he's a solid player, but it's hard to argue with 2 1st rd picks for a guy who's replaceable. Trading Schenn allows Konency to move to RW, to be replaced by Lindblom, which makes it a wash. I think Lindblom will be a better winger than Schenn in two years.

I also think that Weise finally getting comfortable was an influence on this trade, Weise has been a 25 point ES guy when he plays with the right linemates (29, 21 ES points before last season).

Schenn has averaged 13-18 31 at ES.
So Hextall probably thought he wouldn't take an ES hit trading Schenn, and that he had options on the PP to replace his scoring.

Lindblom - G - Simmons
Weise - Couts - Voracek
Filpulla - Patrick - Konency
Laughton - Lehtera - Raffl/Read
or switch Weise and Raffl

I like those lines. I'd prefer Laughton at center unless lehtera is good at face offs. Either way his lack of speed would be concerning there.

I'd also like the non protected pick in 2019. The blues have the better chance of a poor season there relative to 2018. Obviously that thinking negates the 2019 pick. Why I wish they didn't have this pick protected. They aren't finishing bottoms 10 two seasons in row. Likely not at all.

As usual I agree with jonesy. Schenn biggest issue was his smarts followed by his lack of accuracy. He could have had 10 more goals last year with a good shot. He was always out in a good position to succeed. Gifted chances on the PP. he will be motivated on the blues which may help him equal his production here. I like this trade more and more.

 

[healthyscratch]

Just a thought I had, if the Devs take Nolan and we take Hischier, do we trade Schenn?

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Just a thought I had, if the Devs take Nolan and we take Hischier, do we trade Schenn?

I can't think of a really good reason that would have effected anything.

 

[Johnk0728]

I thought Schenn was fine, as a RW.

Problem was he and the team thought he was a center, which is a mistake, he's neither a playmaker nor a good enough skater to be a two way centerman like Couts and Patrick.

As a goal scoring RW who brings physical play he's a solid player, but it's hard to argue with 2 1st rd picks for a guy who's replaceable. Trading Schenn allows Konency to move to RW, to be replaced by Lindblom, which makes it a wash. I think Lindblom will be a better winger than Schenn in two years.

I also think that Weise finally getting comfortable was an influence on this trade, Weise has been a 25 point ES guy when he plays with the right linemates (29, 21 ES points before last season).

Schenn has averaged 13-18 31 at ES.
So Hextall probably thought he wouldn't take an ES hit trading Schenn, and that he had options on the PP to replace his scoring.

Lindblom - G - Simmons
Weise - Couts - Voracek
Filpulla - Patrick - Konency
Laughton - Lehtera - Raffl/Read
or switch Weise and Raffl

I agree with your assessment of Schenn but I do not believe Dale Weise had any influence on Hextall's decision. and I do not see him as a top 6 forward....at least I hope not. I don't expect the Flyers to make the playoffs next year but that's not as important as watching the kids develop. If Weise is getting top 6 minutes; than goals will be even tougher to come by than I thought. And I do not see that 2nd line as happening. Just my opinion....

 

[deadhead]

Top 6, top 9 are meaningless on this team, the talent is spread too evenly right now.

What Weise provides was another credible scoring winger, much like Raffl and Read when they were younger, not great players, but guys who could give you 20-30 ES points on a regular shift.

Read 1st 3 years - 15-14 29; last 3 7-12 19
Raffl 4 years - 12-10 22
Weise 2 year - 11-14 25

Point is while they're not as good at scoring at ES as Schenn, the gap isn't that large, so when you add Lindblom and give Konency more PT at RW, there isn't going to be a dropoff at ES. And they're all better possession wingers (CorsiRel) than Schenn and better defensively.

So all you have to do is replace Schenn's PP production, from Konency, Lindblom or Patrick.

 

[renberg]

Jonesy on WIP this morning, they spoke about the Schenn trade for a second. Jonesy ripped Schenn, saying his hockey IQ is lower than Herrera's batting average and that the organization tried everything to "unlock" his talent, but couldn't. Moved him around the lineup, put him on the 1st line, tried him @ 2C, then got forced to wing. Also took a shot at him for how he only scores on the power play, and some pretty awful players have more even strength goals than him. It was pretty good rip and Jonesy wasn't trolling, he was a little annoyed maybe at Angelo ripping the trade (Angelo was clearly being hyperbolic though) and said these things rather forcefully.

Apparently, I'm not alone in thinking Schenn is a blockhead.

I can't see anyone taking issue with what Jonesy brought up. I'm glad that he told it like it is. Getting two #1s for him is a steal even if the Flyers had to take back a weak contract.

 

[hatcher]

I can't see anyone taking issue with what Jonesy brought up. I'm glad that he told it like it is. Getting two #1s for him is a steal even if the Flyers had to take back a weak contract.

Wonder why he wouldn't want a younger roster player though. 2 late firsts that chances are don't make the team even isn't that great of a trade. Hexy in his trades though always brings roster players back though. Gudas,Umberger,Filp and Lethera.

 

[deadhead]

Umberger, Filppula and Lehtera are all salary dumps.

It's how Hextall gets more value out of trades, using cap room (a la Hinkie) to get teams to sweeten the deal (instead of spending it on overpriced and overly long FA contracts).

Hopefully Filpulla and Lehtera will provide more value than Umberger, but in any case, both contracts are gone in two years.

 

[hatcher]

Umberger, Filppula and Lehtera are all salary dumps.

It's how Hextall gets more value out of trades, using cap room (a la Hinkie) to get teams to sweeten the deal (instead of spending it on overpriced and overly long FA contracts).

Hopefully Filpulla and Lehtera will provide more value than Umberger, but in any case, both contracts are gone in two years.

I know they are dumps but why not drop the Hammer on all of it though. G,V,Simmonds? Hoping all these prospects hit isn't a good move but Hexys thinking it will. 2 late 1sts for schenn isn't that good.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Making a trade because of Dale Weise.

 

[Flyotes]

Yeah, I've been confused about that part of the condition. Can the Blues defer the pick to 2020 if it's both a top ten pick in 2018 & 2019? I've seen that listed as a condition in some places but not others.

If they can't defer to 2020, just think of it: the Blues hand Schenn the first line center spot. On his very first preseason shift, he accidentally runs right into Tarasenko, injuring him for the year. The Blues are devastated and finish out of the playoffs and with the # 10 pick in hand, choose to defer to 2019. In Sept. 2018, the Blues, having learned their lesson or so they thought, decide against letting Schenn on the ice at the same time with Tarasenko and suit him up at RW on the second line. On his very first shift of preseason, he accidentally runs into Pietrangelo, injuring him for the year. On the way back to the bench, a deeply ashamed Brayden Schenn isn't paying attention and accidentally runs into Tarasenko who is just jumping off the bench, injuring him for the year again. This Schenn-caused catastrophe leads the Blues to put up the worst season in their history. HFboards collectively loses their minds when on lottery night it is revealed that the 2019 President's trophy winning Flyers, led by sophomore sensation Nolan Patrick and Norris candidate Ivan Provorov, are awarded the top pick in that years draft.

What? It could happen...

Schenn is rarely injured. He runs into everything and pops right back up all the time. Freakishly. Otherwise, I'm on board.

 

[Lindberg]

In a vacuum I'm not sure how this trade will go. Late 1st rounders go on and don't do much or vice versa. Not that I have the slightest clue about what was out there but if Hextall could have gotten a prospect back I think that would have been a better return.

I'm not particularly high on B Schenn but this trade could turn out ugly for the Flyers if the prospects don't pan out. Schenn was quite a blockhead but at least you know what he was. His production this year does seem to be replaceable and wasn't the best fit for the flyers.

Here's to hoping I guess.

 

[Ruck Over]

Yeah, I've been confused about that part of the condition. Can the Blues defer the pick to 2020 if it's both a top ten pick in 2018 & 2019? I've seen that listed as a condition in some places but not others.

If they can't defer to 2020, just think of it: the Blues hand Schenn the first line center spot. On his very first preseason shift, he accidentally runs right into Tarasenko, injuring him for the year. The Blues are devastated and finish out of the playoffs and with the # 10 pick in hand, choose to defer to 2019. In Sept. 2018, the Blues, having learned their lesson or so they thought, decide against letting Schenn on the ice at the same time with Tarasenko and suit him up at RW on the second line. On his very first shift of preseason, he accidentally runs into Pietrangelo, injuring him for the year. On the way back to the bench, a deeply ashamed Brayden Schenn isn't paying attention and accidentally runs into Tarasenko who is just jumping off the bench, injuring him for the year again. This Schenn-caused catastrophe leads the Blues to put up the worst season in their history. HFboards collectively loses their minds when on lottery night it is revealed that the 2019 President's trophy winning Flyers, led by sophomore sensation Nolan Patrick and Norris candidate Ivan Provorov, are awarded the top pick in that years draft.

What? It could happen...

There was that time Hatcher ran into Carter, trying to hit Crosby or someone else I think. Totally plausible.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

There was that time Hatcher ran into Carter, trying to hit Crosby or someone else I think. Totally plausible.

I think that was Lupul.

Doesn't matter, but just saying!

 

[Johnk0728]

Top 6, top 9 are meaningless on this team, the talent is spread too evenly right now.

What Weise provides was another credible scoring winger, much like Raffl and Read when they were younger, not great players, but guys who could give you 20-30 ES points on a regular shift.

Read 1st 3 years - 15-14 29; last 3 7-12 19
Raffl 4 years - 12-10 22
Weise 2 year - 11-14 25

Point is while they're not as good at scoring at ES as Schenn, the gap isn't that large, so when you add Lindblom and give Konency more PT at RW, there isn't going to be a dropoff at ES. And they're all better possession wingers (CorsiRel) than Schenn and better defensively.

So all you have to do is replace Schenn's PP production, from Konency, Lindblom or Patrick.

I respect your opinion and your organized thoughts. But you are simplifying way too much. Read, Raffl, Weise are bottom forwards. And are not be relied on for anything but energy and puck retrieving and receiving checks from bad contracts.

-Read is a shell of his younger self now and will be fighting for playing time. His NHL career is at a crossroads and is about to face a series of one-year deals or camp invites after this year.
Raffl- I am not getting into it on this site. But see Read...same thing.

Weise- What is he? Is he the healthy scratch who was invisible last year or is he the sandpaper player that ticked off Lucic? Either way he needs to be on the 4th line. Because that means the Flyers are good. If he is in the top 9; then they are not. its that simple.....he is a grinder with a long face. But could help the team in a limited role.

And everyone keeps saying all you have to do is replace Schenn's PP output.... no you need more! The Flyers were not a playoff team an struggled to score goals last year.
The Flyers are probably not going to make the playoffs next year...but who gives a ****. I just want to see as many kids get time to learn and develop at the NHL level. Maybe, the kids develop quickly and they fight for a playoff spot down the stretch....that experience would be invaluable.
Moral of the story is that Matt Read, Michael Raffl and Dale Weise are afterthoughts now and soon the prospect pool will rake over and we never have to speak of them again.

 

[TheKingPin]

In a vacuum I'm not sure how this trade will go. Late 1st rounders go on and don't do much or vice versa. Not that I have the slightest clue about what was out there but if Hextall could have gotten a prospect back I think that would have been a better return.

I'm not particularly high on B Schenn but this trade could turn out ugly for the Flyers if the prospects don't pan out. Schenn was quite a blockhead but at least you know what he was. His production this year does seem to be replaceable and wasn't the best fit for the flyers.

Here's to hoping I guess.

I think first rounders are currently worth more than you think. We got two for schenn and a little bit of a push because they were done with lehtera, but still more than the islanders got for a pretty valuable ssset at a great cap hit.

 

[mja]

Schenn is rarely injured. He runs into everything and pops right back up all the time. Freakishly. Otherwise, I'm on board.

You misread. Of course Schenn isn't going to be injured, what with his adamantium skeleton, but the speculative collisions would be devastating for Pietrangelo & Tarasenko. Who knows if they'd even survive, let alone play hockey at a high level ever again.

 

[Lindberg]

I think first rounders are currently worth more than you think. We got two for schenn and a little bit of a push because they were done with lehtera, but still more than the islanders got for a pretty valuable ssset at a great cap hit.

I meant there are quite a few former first rounders who don't amount to much. I'd venture to guess the Blues will be back in the playoffs next year and the flyers will pick somewhere around 20. The flyers really need to pick the right players to really bring back the value here.

On the flip side two first round picks could become home runs but I don't think that is very likely.

I'm just not sold on the value there and think there is a bit of over valuation of picks vs players. I'd venture to guess Schenn not sticking at center probably hurt his value a bit.

 

[deadhead]

I respect your opinion and your organized thoughts. But you are simplifying way too much. Read, Raffl, Weise are bottom forwards. And are not be relied on for anything but energy and puck retrieving and receiving checks from bad contracts.

I don't expect them to replace Schenn's production, I expect Lindblom to replace Schenn (with Konency moving to RW).

I expect Weise, Raffl and Read to supply solid depth to the bottom six and providing additional ES production. And to buy time for the young forwards to develop over the next 2-3 years. They will gradually be phased out and young players moved into the lineup.

My point was simply that Schenn wasn't an elite scorer at ES, 31 points a season is solid production, but not irreplaceable.

As far as the value of 2 1st rd picks, with Holmgren in charge, decent, with Hextall in charge, the sky's the limit.

 

[cheesesteak]

The trade actually makes some sense. Schenn wasn't a part of Hextalls long term plan. He could have tried to wait for a better deal to come around but I think Hextall doesn't see him getting much more. So he wants to get out in front of it. He gets to draft 2 prospects of his choice, start developing one, and they should be peaking with our young core. Maybe that was more appealing to him than being at the mercy of what teams offer.

 

[Johnk0728]

The trade actually makes some sense. Schenn wasn't a part of Hextalls long term plan. He could have tried to wait for a better deal to come around but I think Hextall doesn't see him getting much more. So he wants to get out in front of it. He gets to draft 2 prospects of his choice, start developing one, and they should be peaking with our young core. Maybe that was more appealing to him than being at the mercy of what teams offer.

Hextall has now traded Brayden Schenn twice. You could tell both Hakstol and Hextall weren't exactly huge fans of him. And the quote that Hextall wasn't shopping him is pure bull. Schenn's time as Flyer was shaky and Hextall pulled the trigger at his highest value.

 

[Ruck Over]

The trade actually makes some sense. Schenn wasn't a part of Hextalls long term plan. He could have tried to wait for a better deal to come around but I think Hextall doesn't see him getting much more. So he wants to get out in front of it. He gets to draft 2 prospects of his choice, start developing one, and they should be peaking with our young core. Maybe that was more appealing to him than being at the mercy of what teams offer.

If anything, this is how GMs should behave, rather than Sakic and the Duchene situation. Come to a decision, make it, live with it, move on. Hextall judged this to be a good time to trade him, and he's gone. Duchene is probably going to start the year in Colorado and it's garbage, for all involved (except his eventual new team, they'll be happy paying a reduced rate.)

 

[Beef Invictus]

Can anyone name a Stanley Cup winning team that had nobody over 30 years old?

Yes, I can. 1932 Maple Leafs.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Yeah plus they get a third rounder in 2019.

Edit: Actually capfriendly changed the conditions.

Old Description:

Condition: If the 2018 draft pick becomes a top 10 pick, Blues have the option to move the pick to 2019. If it is a top 10 pick in 2019, Blues have the option to move the pick to 2020. If the pick is moved to 2019 or 2020, the Flyers will also receive a 2019 3rd round pick.

New Description:

Condition: If the 2018 draft pick becomes a top 10 pick, Blues have the option to move the pick to 2019. If the pick is moved to 2019, the Flyers will also receive a 2020 3rd round pick.

The bolded is how Doug Armstrong explained the trade at his draft day interview. I'm not sure how Capfriendly got confused. The Blues do not have an option to defer the pick in 2019. And they do not automatically defer in 2018 if its top 10, just have the option to do so (which adds the 2020 3rd).

Looks like a win-win trade from here. I hate not having a 1st rounder next year, but getting 2 picks this year assuages a lot of that. The Blues are in a win-now mode.

I love these predictions of a Blues Cup. But you have to realize the huge inertia of the universe against that happening.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The bolded is how Doug Armstrong explained the trade at his draft day interview. I'm not sure how Capfriendly got confused. The Blues do not have an option to defer the pick in 2019. And they do not automatically defer in 2018 if its top 10, just have the option to do so (which adds the 2020 3rd).

Looks like a win-win trade from here. I hate not having a 1st rounder next year, but getting 2 picks this year assuages a lot of that. The Blues are in a win-now mode.

I love these predictions of a Blues Cup. But you have to realize the huge inertia of the universe against that happening.

Yeah pick protection just started getting big in the NHL recently. But I don't think I've seen one that extends like that yet. It seems like in most deals where they're used you only get chance to potentially save your *** if something bad happens.

I expect us to get the pick next year though. I don't see you guys picking in the top 10 unless you guys get some top players hurt for extended periods of time. I ultimately expect it to be somewhere in the 20's.