Player Discussion: Brayden Point - Part 2

Status
Not open for further replies.

DaBolts

Stanley Cup Boat Parades ROCK
Feb 3, 2015
15,131
10,775
If Point decides to hold out, his agent should be fired because that is horrid advice.
 

TheDaysOf 04

[ 2 6 ] [ 4 ]
Jun 23, 2007
53,081
22,913
NJ
We offered Point roughly 7% of the current cap. I think it was smart for JBB to make the offer mind you, and smart to just leave it there, but I don't think anybody realistically expects Point to be the first 90 point scorer to sign for such a small percentage. Unless I'm forgetting somebody.

And I mean, we can point to his winger all day, but the reality is pretty much everybody who EVER has a big season does it because of good chemistry. And Kucherov jumped 28 points over his career high playing with Point, so it's not like it wasn't a two-way street.
If my math is correct, Kuch's bridge deal was like 6.4% of the cap at that time, so we're in the right ballpark. It can be argued if what Kuch was offered was fair, but in the end he took it. Time will tell what Point does, but the good thing about starting low is we can always come up some and still not be hurting.
 

DFC

Registered User
Sep 26, 2013
47,184
23,316
NB
If my math is correct, Kuch's bridge deal was like 6.4% of the cap at that time, so we're in the right ballpark. It can be argued if what Kuch was offered was fair, but in the end he took it. Time will tell what Point does, but the good thing about starting low is we can always come up.

Again though, Kucherov hadn't just scored 90 points. He scored 66, which is what Point did LAST year. This is a very different circumstance. Asking him to take 5.7, unless I'm forgetting someone, is unprecedented. Which is why I think we don't really expect him to take it. And that's to say nothing of the new culture of RFAs getting paid, which goes far beyond Dubas.
 

DaBolts

Stanley Cup Boat Parades ROCK
Feb 3, 2015
15,131
10,775
Again though, Kucherov hadn't just scored 90 points. He scored 66, which is what Point did LAST year. This is a very different circumstance. Asking him to take 5.7, unless I'm forgetting someone, is unprecedented. Which is why I think we don't really expect him to take it. And that's to say nothing of the new culture of RFAs getting paid, which goes far beyond Dubas.

I would offer him 7.5 x3 IF he accept the NMC/NTC (limited) not going into effect until year 3 of the contract. We may need some flexibility and if he performs like he did last season, the haul we would get for Point (God forbid we'd have to trade him) would be massive. If he stays steady or improves then his next contract would be more than worth 10.5x6 or 7.
 

DFC

Registered User
Sep 26, 2013
47,184
23,316
NB
I would offer him 7.5 x3 IF he accept the NMC/NTC (limited) not going into effect until year 3 of the contract. We may need some flexibility and if he performs like he did last season, the haul we would get for Point (God forbid we'd have to trade him) would be massive. If he stays steady or improves then his next contract would be more than worth 10.5x6 or 7.

We can't give him a NTC on a RFA deal. It's not a factor.
 

Flat Ronnie

Registered User
Feb 11, 2014
5,585
2,979
I'm getting so tired of hearing about what Brayden Point wants on his freakin RFA deal...
 

DFC

Registered User
Sep 26, 2013
47,184
23,316
NB
"Villifying?" Lol

Yup. We're seeing that a lot in this thread. Or posts that he should be grateful to take 5.7. I think we're belittling his accomplishments a lot because it's convenient when he's up for a contract. He's probably going to sign for a loooot less than his peers.
 

LightningStrikes

Champa Bay Lightning
Nov 24, 2009
26,259
10,125
If it’s gonna be a bridge 3x7 ish sounds fair to me. Prove to us that last season wasn’t a fluke. Keep the group together, ideally win a Cup during that time. Door open for a big raise afterwards (Lightning have always delivered on that, see Kuch).
 
  • Like
Reactions: TeslaCoilFan

Krewe

Registered User
Mar 12, 2019
1,676
1,917
Yup. We're seeing that a lot in this thread. Or posts that he should be grateful to take 5.7. I think we're belittling his accomplishments a lot because it's convenient when he's up for a contract. He's probably going to sign for a loooot less than his peers.
I think most people here are saying JBB should offer more. Though tbf if he decided to take 3x5.7M I won't complain if he never scores 90 again
 

Flat Ronnie

Registered User
Feb 11, 2014
5,585
2,979
Yup. We're seeing that a lot in this thread. Or posts that he should be grateful to take 5.7. I think we're belittling his accomplishments a lot because it's convenient when he's up for a contract. He's probably going to sign for a loooot less than his peers.
He has peers on his own team as well.
 

HoseEmDown

Registered User
Mar 25, 2012
17,470
3,690
When was the last time a guy with 90 points, under any circumstance, signed a deal that low, percentage-wise?

This wasn't a slap in the face, but only because it wasn't a real offer.

Lebanc didn't score 90 but he just came off of 56 and took a 1M deal. He's the same age as Point.
 

DFC

Registered User
Sep 26, 2013
47,184
23,316
NB
He has peers on his own team as well.

Yeah, and we have to balance that against what's going on league-wide. We can't just pretend it's not happening.

Even so, Point stacks up pretty well with those peers. A lot better than 5.7.
 

HoseEmDown

Registered User
Mar 25, 2012
17,470
3,690
Again though, Kucherov hadn't just scored 90 points. He scored 66, which is what Point did LAST year. This is a very different circumstance. Asking him to take 5.7, unless I'm forgetting someone, is unprecedented. Which is why I think we don't really expect him to take it. And that's to say nothing of the new culture of RFAs getting paid, which goes far beyond Dubas.

And that 66 points led the team, Point didn't lead the team in scoring. He wasn't even the second highest scorer on the team. We scored 95 less goals that season too.
 

DFC

Registered User
Sep 26, 2013
47,184
23,316
NB
I think most people here are saying JBB should offer more. Though tbf if he decided to take 3x5.7M I won't complain if he never scores 90 again

LOL If he takes 3 x 5.7m I will personally sacrifice a goat to JBB.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zwui21

DFC

Registered User
Sep 26, 2013
47,184
23,316
NB
And that 66 points led the team, Point didn't lead the team in scoring. He wasn't even the second highest scorer on the team. We scored 95 less goals that season too.

Okay. So, still, find me a guy who scored 90 points or more, maybe even 80, who signed for 7% of the cap. What's the point of looking at all the side factors if that's the one that's unprecedented?
 

TheDaysOf 04

[ 2 6 ] [ 4 ]
Jun 23, 2007
53,081
22,913
NJ
Again though, Kucherov hadn't just scored 90 points. He scored 66, which is what Point did LAST year. This is a very different circumstance. Asking him to take 5.7, unless I'm forgetting someone, is unprecedented. Which is why I think we don't really expect him to take it.
That whole 2019 season though is hard to judge. I'm not trying to diminish what Point did but it's difficult to say if that year was an aberration or not. Like I don't think we can realistically expect Kuch to hit 120 points again. And that's why a bridge deal is needed. Another year or 2 would help give us a better idea what player he is going forward. Is he closer to a 60 pt guy or a 90 pt guy? What will be his norm? Like I said before though too, I have zero problem with moving up from $5.7 M. I doubt we're drawing a line in the sand at 5.7.
And that's to say nothing of the new culture of RFAs getting paid, which goes far beyond Dubas.
That new culture though is made off of bad moves. Like Hose said, there's no reason we need to be apart of a trend that doesn't make sense. One bad contract has led to others for Dubas because of where he set the bar in Toronto. I understand where Marner's camp is coming from because if I'm Marner, I'd argue hard too that I deserve to be paid in comparison to Tavares and Matthews. But Point can't really do that here in Tampa.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Felonious Python

DFC

Registered User
Sep 26, 2013
47,184
23,316
NB
That whole 2019 season though is hard to judge. I'm not trying to diminish what Point did but it's difficult to say if that year was an aberration or not. Like I don't say we can realistically expect Kuch to hit 120 points again. And that's why a bridge deal is needed. Another year or 2 would help give us a better idea what player he is going forward. Is he closer to a 60 pt guy or a 90 pt guy? What will be his norm? Like I said before though too, I have zero problem with moving up from $5.7 M. I doubt we're drawing a line in the sand at 5.7.

It is diminishing what he did though. When has a player said, "I scored 90 points, but scoring is up, so pay me like a 60 point guy." Not in the history of never.

But here's the thing about Point. All the talk about him being on Kucherov's wing... Well, he put up exactly 7 more 5v5 points this year than last year. Kucherov's 5v5 points, playing with Point, jumped 16.

Point was our 2nd best 5v5 scorer last year, 3rd the year before (without Kucherov).

In the past TWO seasons, he has 73 total goals (for context, Stamkos has 72), and 45 goals at ES, which is second behind only Kucherov in both cases.

The big difference is we played him on the PP this year, and that's where most of those extra points came from. But it's not like this is a player who doesn't deserve PP time and won't be getting it from here on out.

The idea that this season might be a fluke is kind of crazy, considering the big difference is PP time, not Point's performance. (His performance improved a little, but not massively--he just got more opportunity.)

That new culture though is made off of bad moves. Like Hose said, there's no reason we need to be apart of a trend that doesn't make sense. One bad contract has led to others for Dubas because of where he set the bar in Toronto. I understand where Marner's camp is coming from because if I'm Marner, I'd argue hard too that I deserve to be paid in comparison to Tavares and Matthews. But Point can't really do that here in Tampa.

Let's forget Dubas, because this didn't start with him. It started with Draisaitl and Eichel, both of whom signed for bigger money than Point after seasons that weren't as good. We can't just pretend it's not happening, not if we want anybody to play for us.

You can consider the moves bad if you want. Unfortunately, they're becoming the norm. We're lucky that we don't have to follow the trend completely, but it's silly to think we're going to be the one team that ignores it altogether and just forces our RFAs to play for a fraction of what their peers are making.
 

JoVel

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Jan 23, 2017
19,510
26,946
But here's the thing about Point. All the talk about him being on Kucherov's wing... Well, he put up exactly 7 more 5v5 points this year than last year. Kucherov's 5v5 points, playing with Point, jumped 16.
It was definitely Kucherov who got the bigger boost when he got put with Point, rather than the other way around. Point was hands down our best forward to start the season, without Kucherov. Kuch didn't find his game until he got put with Point.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad