Player Discussion: Brandon Tanev

[AKAChip]

I wouldn't say ignore. I'd say measure with a grain of salt. I'll still listen to their opinions but with a degree of skepticism.

I think when it comes to hfboards, you should take everyone's opinions with a grain of salt.

 

[KingBogo]

The failures of Dano and/or Petan have absolutely no bearing on this issue. Despite the fact that Dano and Petan both play an entirely different game to Tanev, a reasonable argument could still be made that Tanev was afforded greater opportunity than both of them. Even if you say that Tanev is having a good year, which is fair, most people would agree that he struggled through his first couple seasons. Dano and Petan have been given opportunity, but not to the extent that even a less effective version of Tanev did.

Regardless, being wrong about the future success of a player does not preclude you from having an opinion on another.

Tanev wasn't given greater opportunity than Dano or Petan. He was given less actually, he just took advantage of the opportunity he did have and proved he had value to the team with his play.

 

[AKAChip]

Tanev wasn't given greater opportunity than Dano or Petan. He was given less actually, he just took advantage of the opportunity he did have and proved he had value to the team with his play.

I mean, this is just plain untrue. In 2016-17, his first full year after being signed, Tanev played in 51 games. Dano played in 38 (cut short by injury) and Petan played 54. Now after contributing four points in those 51 games, the following year Tanev played in 61 games. That same year, Dano played in 23 games and Petan played in 15. The 2015-16 was the only year that Dano and Petan were Jets property while Tanev wasn't (though Tanev was signed at the end of that season) and Dano played in 21 games after the TDL and Petan played in 26 games. At the bare minimum, it's impossible to say he got less opportunity than Dano or Petan. Most undrafted college free agents don't get to have a 51 game season scoring four points and then come back for another full season of opportunities.

 

[ffh]

Tanev wasn't given greater opportunity than Dano or Petan. He was given less actually, he just took advantage of the opportunity he did have and proved he had value to the team with his play.

what they mean by not given equal opportunity is dano and petan were not played on 1st or 2nd lines but the 4th line and had to play with players inferior to them like tanev. and as long as they played on bottom 6 they were perceived to not have been given a fair shake.

 

[AKAChip]

what they mean by not given equal opportunity is dano and petan were not played on 1st or 2nd lines but the 4th line and had to play with players inferior to them like tanev. and as long as they played on bottom 6 they were perceived to not have been given a fair shake.

Both Petan and Dano, despite their warts, put up better numbers than Tanev in 2016-17. None of them were playing heavy minutes. Yet the following year, Tanev was a regular and the other two were not. Forget about whether Dano or Petan are good or not, it's still irrelevant. Tanev was given a ton of time where he was objectively bad to work out the kinks.

And besides, any reasonable fan of Tanev's would agree that even if they consider him to be great in his role, he was never going to be a top six player. If Petan or Dano were going to succeed, it was going to be in a scoring-type role. What would seeing them play on the fourth line with limited minutes accomplish?

 

[KingBogo]

I mean, this is just plain untrue. In 2016-17, his first full year after being signed, Tanev played in 51 games. Dano played in 38 (cut short by injury) and Petan played 54. Now after contributing four points in those 51 games, the following year Tanev played in 61 games. That same year, Dano played in 23 games and Petan played in 15. The 2015-16 was the only year that Dano and Petan were Jets property while Tanev wasn't (though Tanev was signed at the end of that season) and Dano played in 21 games after the TDL and Petan played in 26 games. At the bare minimum, it's impossible to say he got less opportunity than Dano or Petan. Most undrafted college free agents don't get to have a 51 game season scoring four points and then come back for another full season of opportunities.

This pretty much proves what I said. They were all bottom of the roster players when they started out. Petan got PP time and both him and Dano got games further up the lineup. Tanev just kept revving the engine and when he didn't produce he gave the coach a reason to keep playing him with his work ethic. When he developed his game to the point of producing on top of the tenacious play he moved past Petan and Dano. Now he has moved well past them and has developed into a player we hope we can hold on to.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Both Petan and Dano, despite their warts, put up better numbers than Tanev in 2016-17. None of them were playing heavy minutes. Yet the following year, Tanev was a regular and the other two were not. Forget about whether Dano or Petan are good or not, it's still irrelevant. Tanev was given a ton of time where he was objectively bad to work out the kinks.

And besides, any reasonable fan of Tanev's would agree that even if they consider him to be great in his role, he was never going to be a top six player. If Petan or Dano were going to succeed, it was going to be in a scoring-type role. What would seeing them play on the fourth line with limited minutes accomplish?

Yep and Petan wasn't going to beat out Ehlers for a spot.
Only reason why I'd compare a Lemieux or Tanev vs Petan is everyone says Petan has better stats because he has better advanced stats but I prefer past success indicators like goals than expected goals. I'd take 15 goals over 20 expected goals.

 

[ps241]

This pretty much proves what I said. They were all bottom of the roster players when they started out. Petan got PP time and both him and Dano got games further up the lineup. Tanev just kept revving the engine and when he didn't produce he gave the coach a reason to keep playing him with his work ethic. When he developed his game to the point of producing on top of the tenacious play he moved past Petan and Dano. Now he has moved well past them and has developed into a player we hope we can hold on to.

It also speak to how PMo sees the NHL. For better or worse he sees the 3rd line as checking unit and the 4th line as an energy unit. He is still a top 6 bottom 6 coach. Time will tell if his approach works.

 

[KingBogo]

It also speak to how PMo sees the NHL. For better or worse he sees the 3rd line as checking unit and the 4th line as an energy unit. He is still a top 6 bottom 6 coach. Time will tell if his approach works.

But he will play talent on the 4th when he has enough at his disposal. Last year in the playoffs we pretty much ran MP-L-A as our 4th.

 

[ps241]

But he will play talent on the 4th when he has enough at his disposal. Last year in the playoffs we pretty much ran MP-L-A as our 4th.

Yea his hand was forced when Paul arrived and our forward group got really healthy.

 

[KingBogo]

Yea his hand was forced when Paul arrived and our forward group got really healthy.

Interesting us of words PS. I've always seen Maurice as someone who doesn't get forced into anything. A competing theory is that like all coaches he will employ 4 skill lines if he has enough talent at his disposal. But in a 31 team league with a hard cap having 12 forwards that fit this description is a very rare occurrence. So the fall back (common) lineup is to concentrate the skill on 2 lines, employ a 3rd line in a checking role so you can shut down another team's skilled players while freeing up your own. And a 4th line of guys that can minimize damage with sheltered/limited minutes. This usually takes the form of an "energy" crash and bang line. The vast majority of coaches set their lines up similarly. And we have seen in the past Maurice will add elements of skill to the 4th but maintains the usage when he has a surplus of talent, like when he has dropped MP to the 4th. And he will go to all skill when the rare opportunity presents itself. Like last year when we got Stastny, Kind of why I want us to be a buyer at the deadline.

And since we are in a thread about Tanev, he like MP is such a value because they are the rare players that can fit seamlessly into multiple roles

 

[ps241]

Interesting us of words PS. I've always seen Maurice as someone who doesn't get forced into anything. A competing theory is that like all coaches he will employ 4 skill lines if he has enough talent at his disposal. But in a 31 team league with a hard cap having 12 forwards that fit this description is a very rare occurrence. So the fall back (common) lineup is to concentrate the skill on 2 lines, employ a 3rd line in a checking role so you can shut down another team's skilled players while freeing up your own. And a 4th line of guys that can minimize damage with sheltered/limited minutes. This usually takes the form of an "energy" crash and bang line. The vast majority of coaches set their lines up similarly. And we have seen in the past Maurice will add elements of skill to the 4th but maintains the usage when he has a surplus of talent, like when he has dropped MP to the 4th. And he will go to all skill when the rare opportunity presents itself. Like last year when we got Stastny, Kind of why I want us to be a buyer at the deadline.

And since we are in a thread about Tanev, he like MP is such a value because they are the rare players that can fit seamlessly into multiple roles

Watching Maurice over the years I feel like he has always felt most comfortable having a guy like Thor, Tanev, Hendricks, or another bruisers and a collection roll players on the 4th line playing 5 or less minutes a night bringing energy and adding toughness. Not saying that is right or wrong because coaches have won cups with that approach. On occasion he has deviated like when Perreault came off injury last year and PMo started him on the 4th line (I think it was with Armia and someone else). That 3b line dominated other teams bottom six match up and our team seemed to take off. Why did we go away from that do you recall? Perhaps it was Scheifele’s injury and the need to pull MP up?

I guess we will see how the post TD roster shapes up this year maybe we pick up a key asset and we have to juggle lines and push talent down.

 

[ffh]

Watching Maurice over the years I feel like he has always felt most comfortable having a guy like Thor, Tanev, Hendricks, or another bruisers and a collection roll players on the 4th line playing 5 or less minutes a night bringing energy and adding toughness. Not saying that is right or wrong because coaches have won cups with that approach. On occasion he has deviated like when Perreault came off injury last year and PMo started him on the 4th line (I think it was with Armia and someone else). That 3b line dominated other teams bottom six match up and our team seemed to take off. Why did we go away from that do you recall? Perhaps it was Scheifele’s injury and the need to pull MP up?

I guess we will see how the post TD roster shapes up this year maybe we pick up a key asset and we have to juggle lines and push talent down.

any coach will play who he thinks gives him the best chance to win. why Thorburn tanev and Hendricks. cause his choice was them or petan and dano. thats an easy choice. just like he is playing Appleton and Lemieux over those two now. and if armia and statsny was still here then Lemieux and Appleton would be out of line up. so its not a question of wanting bruisers over skill. its a questions who he thinks helps the team.

 

[garret9]

the undrafted player is being asked to play against some of the best wingers in hockey on most nights and still is on pace to score between 15-20 goals. a 3rd 4th liner playing against some of the most offensively gifted players in the world on most nights and the difference according to you is .01 worse defensively. I see why Maurice likes him.
edit: what would that gap be if he was playing against 3rd and 4th liners most nights.

The -0.01 *per hour* isn't great. It's better than Myers, Kulikov, Chiarot, Morrow, Lemieux, Connor, and Laine... but isn't good. At least Connor and Laine have true finishing talent, other than Tanev who is on a sh% spike that will come down.

RAPM accounts for who you play against and with. So that gap is in theory EXACTLY the same if he was playing a sheltered role.

Also, QoC typically isn't as big of an impact as QoT. QoT on average is 10x the impact of QoC. Who you play with matters more than who you play against. This is because everyone tends to still play a lot against everyone, but you tend to play only with certain people.

 

[Upperdeckjet]

Chart analysis aside, I believe one of the unmeasurable factors that brings value to a team is the heart and soul of the player. When combined with a legitimate amount of skill, it brings an energy that other players feed off and rivets our attention to the play on the ice.

This is what Tanev has, Dano did not show and Petan has not shown to date.

I hope we can sign him for 3 more years at 1.5-2m per year.

 

[ps241]

Chart analysis aside, I believe one of the unmeasurable factors that brings value to a team is the heart and soul of the player. When combined with a legitimate amount of skill, it brings an energy that other players feed off and rivets our attention to the play on the ice.

This is what Tanev has, Dano did not show and Petan has not shown to date.

I hope we can sign him for 3 more years at 1.5-2m per year.

Tanev is having a career year coming into free agency. Some GM is going to overpay and I pray to god it’s not us. Tanev is a warrior but he’s easily replaceable.

 

[pateramus]

I think part of the reason for Tanev getting the edge is what lets call the "Tanev effect". He is worth more than his actual points because he is always going at 110%, You can easily see he is putting it all out there all the time. This Motivates and rubs off on other players so everyone else on the team keep up their high pace. Similar effect as to when you know you have big Buff on the back end, everyone feels a little bigger.