F A N
Registered User
- Aug 12, 2005
- 18,773
- 5,985
now what looks like a high 2nd round pick.
How do you figure? The Canucks are currently ranked 12th in the league. If you are looking at things NOW it looks like a low 2nd round pick.
now what looks like a high 2nd round pick.
I'm liking what Sutter has been bringing so far in terms of PK work and his goal scoring.... but he has to be the softest player on the team when it comes to battling along the boards. Still looks like a smaller, slightly faster Matthias out there. Or a taller, center version of Mason Raymond that falls down less. Just getting rubbed out or bouncing off guys.
The contract is still horrible
How do you figure? The Canucks are currently ranked 12th in the league. If you are looking at things NOW it looks like a low 2nd round pick.
This makes no sense, Bonino is being deployed as close to any player we've seen to prime Malhotra currently. He absolutely is being utilized as a shutdown player currently stop pretending that your opinion triumphs objective information. You clearly don't seem to understand the concept of how defensive players are deployed compared to offensive ones so there's no point even trying to arguing here.
Sutter had a hot start, but really is exactly what Pens fans described to us, would still take Bonino over him, especially when factoring contracts and now what looks like a high 2nd round pick.
What? He's being deployed as a defensive shut-down guy, but let's not be ridiculous. Malhotra's offensive zone start % in 2011 was an insane 13.2, Bonino's is currently at 23.5%.
It's like darts, the more darts you have the better chance you have. This example has been made with Chicago and Brandon Saad, they had 5 picks in the first 2 round that year. They chose 3 players over Saad, but finally took the risk on him because they accumulated enough picks to go for a boom/bust guy. If Chicago was so good at drafting, wouldn't have they picked up Saad earlier knowing full and well at how good he was going to be?
You clearly didn't read that properly, maybe try again?
Why pick saad earlier when they could get him later
Huh? You stated he's being deployed as close as any player to Malhotra in 2011, which isn't really true.
Okay so which player has been deployed closer to Malhotra? You have me with Marcus Kruger, anyone else? Point still stands. He's being deployed with some of the hardest minutes in the league, it's hard to suggest he's playing bad, especially when you're just reading hockeydb.
How did they know they could pick him later? He was pegged to go in the first round..
Important pieces are relative. A 2nd pairing defender that tremendously helps your special teams, or greatly improves possession and ga/60 for your 2nd pairing, is an extremely beneficial thing. Might not be a top player, or 'foundational' player , but the team becomes much better.
You can't just look at these players in a vacuum, you have to look at the domino effect they have on the team's play as a whole.
We didn't pay a "big hand". We slightly overpaid to get a better fit for this team. Let's say Bonino and Sutter are a wash, so we traded an extremely mediocre prospect, and downgraded a few spots in the draft. I'm sorry, I just don't view that as some massive overpayment. It's extremely trivial.
Actually I was off with Bonino, behind the net has him at 33.7.
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...5&c=0+1+3+5+63+67+57+58+59+60+61+62+64+65+66#
There are lots of centres this year over the past 4 years that have had a lower oz%.
He's being deployed as a shutdown guy, but again, it's ridiculous hyperbole to state that he's being deployed like Malhotra in his prime.
How does this relate to sutter?
We traded a similar package, we traded Kesler for. A draft pick that is slightly worse is the difference. How is that not a big hand? Say what you want about clendening, I will pull the sbisa card.
I never said he was deployed like prime Malhotra, I said he was deployed as close to anyone since prime Malhotra.
Have any of the guys who started 30 ish % of their shifts in the offensive zone also play similar competition? how productive were they?
Except he didn't go in the first round
Which is completely, utterly false. Funny that you are calling out other posters regarding advanced stats yet seem to have a fairly tenuous grasp on them.
Yes, many of them have played tougher competition than Bonino. He isn't playing that hard competition. He isn't being deployed as this extreme shut-down C. If anything he's being deployed only slightly more defensively than he was here last year.
I wasn't going to create a gigantic research for something that's beside the point I made. The point trying to get across is Bonino isn't playing "terribly" he's being deployed as a tough minute player, and you can't proclaim he isn't playing good because you look at his hockeydb. If you're going to try and debunk what I said than answer my question and tell me how productive the players who were utilized and deployed similarly produced.
Create a list of players who have started ~30% of their shifts in the offensive zone and had a CorsiRelQoc of around 1.0, I'd assume the list isn't that long. Sorry for not devoting half an hour of research on something that's really beside the point.
Huh? What does Sbisa have to do with this?
Bonino's production suffering due to him playing somewhat challenging minutes isn't what I was refuting - it's the fact that you went to such ridiculous hyperbole to try to make that point.
It's actually fairly easy to look up all that, but you seem quite intellectually lazy so I'll do it for you.
First of all a CorsiRelQoc of 1.0 isn't particularly difficult minutes, and Bonino's isn't 1.0, it's actually a bit higher.
Of the centres who have both lesser oz% and a higher CorsiRelQoc
Gaustad
Mitchell
Horcoff
Kruger
Desjardins
There are also players such as Stoll, Boyd, Gordon, Letestu who have a substantially lower oz% but only a marginally lower CorsiRelQoc. Or vice-versa, players with a high CorsiRelQoc such as Cogliano, Couturier, Bozak, Plekanec, Bergeron and a host of others.
Again, he isn't playing particularly hard minutes. But speaking of the he's playing such hard minutes which is why his production suffered - his minutes aren't that hard and his production should not be suffering to the point where he's only pace for 22 points this year. I like Bonino and defended him frequently, but it's quite obvious he's having a disappointing season thus far.
Bonino, Sbisa and a 1st
vs
Bonino, Clendening and a 2nd
The value isn't really very far off.
and if you make it bonino, forsling and a 2nd, it might actually be the better package
Especially when you consider how high the 2nd rounder looks right now.
Of course there's still a ton of time for Anaheim to recover, but I remember being told the pick was basically a third rounder.