Brandon "Meat & Butter" Sutter

[Intangibos]

Does everyone agree that Sutter is faster than Bonino? Does everyone agree Sutter is a right handed center?
Benning has said he wants the team to be faster and harder to play against.
Trading slow players for fast players is a great way to do this.
So even if Bonino is even or better with Sutter perhaps Sutter is better for Vancouver.

Can we agree than Sutter is better than Jordan Stall as well what happened to that guy?

Oops Jared McCann thread. He is our most confident young player since Kesler which is a good thing. Prust worked well with him because Prust is a good passer. Think he needs guys who look for him and get him the puck.

Grabner is faster than Burrows or Higgins, but guess which one I'd take? What about (post injury)Booth or Higgins/Burrows? Raymond? Hell, I even think Raymond is underrated and very solid defensively, and would be fine on a 3rd line. I'd still take Higgins, though. It's funny because I feel like Sutter is a Raymond who plays C. They're both tall guys who are soft along the boards, skate fast, very solid defensively and don't use their teammates effectively. If Raymond's last name was Sutter he'd probably be on a 3rd line somewhere.

I don't think Sutter's better skating ability makes him worth double what Bonino is worth when he isn't using that skating to be much more effective than Bonino. Since Sutter is around the same level of effectiveness as Bonino, based on all available evidence, he must be much weaker than Bonino in another area while he is much stronger in skating. Either he has a lower hockey IQ than Bonino, or less skill, and I value those traits just as much as I do skating. Bonino was a weak skater but had enough to be just as effective as Sutter when on the ice.

I feel like there's almost no difference between Bonino and Sutter. It's not worth talking about much at all. Sutter offers more speed; they can both shoot the puck; they're both inconsistent. I don't think we would feel any better if Bonino received the same contract. In fact, we'd probably feel exactly the same. The difference between them is minuscule.

This, if we paid Bones what we pay Sutter, I'd be upset. And we wouldn't have even had to give up any extra assets to get that contract.

 

[Rex Banner]

McCann > Bonino + Sutter

 

[opendoor]

McCann > Bonino + Sutter

It'll be interesting to see how things shake down with McCann's emergence and the fact that the Canucks have Sutter locked in for the next 6 years. Unless someone moves to the wing, one of Horvat, Sutter, and McCann is going to be on the 4th line as long as the Sedins are here and that's not a good situation for any of them.

If McCann is the real deal, it's starting to look more like a stopgap player would've made much more sense than blowing the bank on a "foundational" player.

 

[Scurr]

It'll be interesting to see how things shake down with McCann's emergence and the fact that the Canucks have Sutter locked in for the next 6 years. Unless someone moves to the wing, one of Horvat, Sutter, and McCann is going to be on the 4th line as long as the Sedins are here and that's not a good situation for any of them.

If McCann is the real deal, it's starting to look more like a stopgap player would've made much more sense than blowing the bank on a "foundational" player.

That's a great position for the team to be in, both in terms of depth and the salary committed. IDK why anyone would think 4 quality NHL centres are too many, especially when the group is affordable.

 

[polarbearcub]

Just hope mccanns dad doesn't pull a hosgson

 

[Drop the Sopel]

It'll be interesting to see how things shake down with McCann's emergence and the fact that the Canucks have Sutter locked in for the next 6 years. Unless someone moves to the wing, one of Horvat, Sutter, and McCann is going to be on the 4th line as long as the Sedins are here and that's not a good situation for any of them.

If McCann is the real deal, it's starting to look more like a stopgap player would've made much more sense than blowing the bank on a "foundational" player.

Having 4 top 9 centremen is a great thing, not a problem. Teams like the Sharks have been so tough to match up against up front because they have 2 centremen on each of their top 2 lines a lot of the time.

You can roll 4 good lines, bump Sutter to RW or McCann to LW. That depth allows you to stay competitive when one of your centres goes down to injury as well. Not to mention the Sedins aren't going to be around forever...

Again, having a 26, 20 and 19 year old trio of quality down the middle is a great thing. Teams are built up the middle of the ice and the Canucks are in a good position long term here. As much as I want to take a negative out of that, I'm just not willing to do it.

Edit- beaten to the punch by Scurr. Bang on there.

 

[Intangibos]

Having 4 top 9 centremen is a great thing, not a problem. Teams like the Sharks have been so tough to match up against up front because they have 2 centremen on each of their top 2 lines a lot of the time.

You can roll 4 good lines, bump Sutter to RW or McCann to LW. That depth allows you to stay competitive when one of your centres goes down to injury as well. Not to mention the Sedins aren't going to be around forever...

Again, having a 26, 20 and 19 year old trio of quality down the middle is a great thing. Teams are built up the middle of the ice and the Canucks are in a good position long term here. As much as I want to take a negative out of that, I'm just not willing to do it.

Edit- beaten to the punch by Scurr. Bang on there.

Having 4 top 9 centres is absolutely a luxury. The problem is fitting them under contract. Luckily McCann and Horvat are on NTCs and I don't think they get new contracts until Hank is gone. I'd still rather have like a 2M 4C and spend the other 2M+ elsewhere, though.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

If I'm JB im exploring what Horvat is worth on the open market.

 

[sting101]

It'll be interesting to see how things shake down with McCann's emergence and the fact that the Canucks have Sutter locked in for the next 6 years. Unless someone moves to the wing, one of Horvat, Sutter, and McCann is going to be on the 4th line as long as the Sedins are here and that's not a good situation for any of them.

If McCann is the real deal, it's starting to look more like a stopgap player would've made much more sense than blowing the bank on a "foundational" player.

I don't see this as a problem.
Sutter has shown to be a good RW. And he can shift back in a couple more years after this if the Sedin's move on.

The whole Sutter bad contract vs Bonino thing is overblown IMO.

I'm of the opinion that having a solid 26 yr old multi faceted player that can get us 20 goals locked up for 6 yrs is a good thing.

Bonino may be a way cheaper player currently, but he is a UFA after next season and will be after a similar contract to Sutter and re signing at 29.

If his skating is an minor issue currently it has the potential to be a disaster not too far down the road. This is where the difference between the 2 will be a lot more than marginal IMO.

I think our center ice position as long as McCann and Horvat can assimilate to a Krecji Bergeron like duo with Sutter in the mix will give us a chance to contend.

Obviously that's a lot of forward progress for a 19 and 20 yr old. But they certainly have the pedigree and potential. I really like the Center position for us present and future.

 

[alternate]

It'll be interesting to see how things shake down with McCann's emergence and the fact that the Canucks have Sutter locked in for the next 6 years. Unless someone moves to the wing, one of Horvat, Sutter, and McCann is going to be on the 4th line as long as the Sedins are here and that's not a good situation for any of them.

If McCann is the real deal, it's starting to look more like a stopgap player would've made much more sense than blowing the bank on a "foundational" player.

Blowing the bank though.

If I'm JB im exploring what Horvat is worth on the open market.

Just so he can laugh and hang up right.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

If I'm JB im exploring what Horvat is worth on the open market.

No reason to move Horvat, unless of course he could be the centrepiece in a deal for Ryan Johansen. If that's possible, it's something to pursue.

Henrik, Johansen, Sutter and McCann down the middle and this team might even be able to make some noise in the West.

 

[Intangibos]

I don't see this as a problem.
Sutter has shown to be a good RW. And he can shift back in a couple more years after this if the Sedin's move on.

The whole Sutter bad contract vs Bonino thing is overblown IMO.

I'm of the opinion that having a solid 26 yr old multi faceted player that can get us 20 goals locked up for 6 yrs is a good thing.

Bonino may be a way cheaper player currently, but he is a UFA after next season and will be after a similar contract to Sutter and re signing at 29.

If his skating is an minor issue currently it has the potential to be a disaster not too far down the road. This is where the difference between the 2 will be a lot more than marginal IMO.

I think our center ice position as long as McCann and Horvat can assimilate to a Krecji Bergeron like duo with Sutter in the mix will give us a chance to contend.

Obviously that's a lot of forward progress for a 19 and 20 yr old. But they certainly have the pedigree and potential. I really like the Center position for us present and future.

The thing is Bonino should have been able to fetch us quite a bit at the deadline due to his low cap. Lots of contending teams would love to add a player like him at his low cap hit. For our 'drafting guru' GM, those picks could be huge. Then we sign some cheap FA center, as the free agency pool has never been better or cheaper (for depth guys)

 

[Addison Rae]

If I'm JB im exploring what Horvat is worth on the open market.

glad you're not then

 

[timw33]

If I'm JB im exploring what Horvat is worth on the open market.

A GM should always really have a pulse on that though. And if there's a deal that makes sense—and there will always be a deal that makes sense, they just don't come up frequently—then we should be doing it (IE Johansen or another core sub 25 centrepiece)

 

[F A N]

Grabner is faster than Burrows or Higgins, but guess which one I'd take?

The issue isn't that Sutter is faster, it's that Bonino was slightly too slow to the point he proved to be a liability in the playoffs.

It's funny because I feel like Sutter is a Raymond who plays C. They're both tall guys who are soft along the boards, skate fast, very solid defensively and don't use their teammates effectively. If Raymond's last name was Sutter he'd probably be on a 3rd line somewhere.

Mason Raymond a tall guy? Not in the NHL! He's 6'0" and doesn't have a particularly long stick. Have you ever watched Mason Raymond play? Raymond is a totally different player from Sutter. Were you not around for the Mason Raymond years?

Since Sutter is around the same level of effectiveness as Bonino, based on all available evidence, he must be much weaker than Bonino in another area while he is much stronger in skating.

Wow. How logical. If player A is a better skater than player B and they are around the same effectiveness, it must mean that player A is much weaker than player B in another area while player A is much stronger in skating.

 

[IComeInPeace]

If I'm JB im exploring what Horvat is worth on the open market.

Dear God, no.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

The thing is Bonino should have been able to fetch us quite a bit at the deadline due to his low cap. Lots of contending teams would love to add a player like him at his low cap hit. For our 'drafting guru' GM, those picks could be huge. Then we sign some cheap FA center, as the free agency pool has never been better or cheaper (for depth guys)

You are looking for ways to max team's asset value they are looking to build a winning team

 

[Diamonddog01]

You are looking for ways to max team's asset value they are looking to build a winning team

Yup. Many can't grasp this concept.

 

[coldsteel79]

Bo has become a core member he won't be traded he exhibits everything the Canucks want in a young player, hardworking, highly competitive, defensively sound, and a good guy.

 

[racerjoe]

You are looking for ways to max team's asset value they are looking to build a winning team

Yup. Many can't grasp this concept.

To build a winning team you need to maximize your assets to aquire the bigger ticket items.

Every team will have players that are Sedin like in price and to some degree effectiveness. To afford more of these you need to look where it is best to spend your assets on.

 

[Diamonddog01]

To build a winning team you need to maximize your assets to aquire the bigger ticket items.

Every team will have players that are Sedin like in price and to some degree effectiveness. To afford more of these you need to look where it is best to spend your assets on.

No, to build a winning team you need to...build a winning team. You find the right mix of players that complement one another. Think Malhotra in 2011. That was a UFA signing but you get the idea.

Which is distinct from maximizing your assets. Here's another (admittedly simple) example.

Your team has a surplus of LH defenceman. Let's say random team has too many defenceman - they have another lefty who costs a 2nd round pick. They have a righty who costs two 2nd round picks, but is an ideal fit for the team - this player balances out the pairings beautifully and complements two of the LH shots nicely in terms of playing style. Both players are about equal in skill level, salary, etc.

According to you, and many others on here, the team should target the lefty because of 'maximizing assets, cost acquisition, etc'. That gives us an extra 2nd, sure. In terms of building the best team however it's obvious that the RH shot is a better fit. More expensive, sure, but he makes the team better.

If maximizing assets were how to build a winning team the best trading GM's would build the best teams. That simply is not the case.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

I've never heard "that team has one too many talented centres" ever being a problem for any hockey team ever.

 

[Pip]

You are looking for ways to max team's asset value they are looking to build a winning team

Of course there are exceptions when you want to forgo maximizing assets to get the right guy, but by and large it is important to maximize all of your assets because it leads to a winning team.

I don't think Sutter is that guy and since being moved from the Sedin line hes been as advertised. A non-physical, Low IQ defense-first player with good wheels and a decent shot.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Of course there are exceptions when you want to forgo maximizing assets to get the right guy, but by and large it is important to maximize all of your assets because it leads to a winning team.

I don't think Sutter is that guy and since being moved from the Sedin line hes been as advertised. A non-physical, Low IQ defense-first player with good wheels and a decent shot.

Nope. You can have all the assets in the world and win each and every trade - doesn't 'lead' to a winning team.

 

[GetFocht]

I would explore trading Horvat for Johansen as the center pieces.

Sedin-Johansen-McCann-Sutter would be amazing. Two left hand centers and two right hand centers at our disposal.