Player Discussion Brady Tkachuk (LW) - Part XI

[NyQuil]

But also, Brady fans can't be overly sensitive when some fans want it to be a bit more about performance from a guy who is into his 4th year now

He's 22 years old.

It was Mark Stone's first season in the league at that age.

We aren't winning the Cup this year so some fans have to relax.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

To be fair, he's the highest paid player on the team and the captain. The expectations should be extremely high, no? It's no longer about potential, it's about performance.

Technically he only has the highest cap hit. In actual salary this season Tkachuk is only making $4M. He is actually tied for the 6th highest paid player on the team. By salary the rank for this season is the following:
1. Thomas Chabot ($7M)
2. Matt Murray ($6M)
3. Colin White ($4.75M)
4. Nikita Zaitsev ($4.5M)
5. Chris Tierney ($4.2M)
6. Brady Tkachuk ($4M) and Connor Brown ($4M)
Ottawa Senators Salary Cap, Draft Picks, and Player Contracts - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[bicboi64]

Zaitsev making that much...always stings to see

 

[BankStreetParade]

Technically he only has the highest cap hit. In actual salary this season Tkachuk is only making $4M. He is actually tied for the 6th highest paid player on the team. By salary the rank for this season is the following:
1. Thomas Chabot ($7M)
2. Matt Murray ($6M)
3. Colin White ($4.75M)
4. Nikita Zaitsev ($4.5M)
5. Chris Tierney ($4.2M)
6. Brady Tkachuk ($4M) and Connor Brown ($4M)
Ottawa Senators Salary Cap, Draft Picks, and Player Contracts - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

So he gets a pass because he decided to defer most of his salary to the latter part of his contract due to heavy escrow currently in place?

But when people were criticizing Murray's poor play last year relative to his contract I didn't see anyone saying "well, technically, he's only making $4 million this year". It seems to be an argument of convenience, more than anything else.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Zaitsev making that much...always stings to see

Ya but there’s no Conor Brown without taking on Zaitsev and Brown has been solid.

 

[BankStreetParade]

When you hand out a 7 year contract to a 22 year old, a lot of it is still going to be about potential.

How do you figure that? Do the Sens have a clause in the contract that reduces the cap hit or salary if Brady doesn't meet certain performance markers? You give a guy a 7 year contract, you're not paying for potential you're paying for them to perform a certain way. And with the cap hit he has, he's getting paid to perform like the best player on the team. This really isn't that wild of a statement to make. Bridging him would have been about potential because you'd be saying "let's see if he'll become what we think he might become and then sign him long term".

 

[NyQuil]

How do you figure that? Do the Sens have a clause in the contract that reduces the cap hit or salary if Brady doesn't meet certain performance markers? You give a guy a 7 year contract, you're not paying for potential you're paying for them to perform a certain way. And with the cap hit he has, he's getting paid to perform like the best player on the team. This really isn't that wild of a statement to make. Bridging him would have been about potential because you'd be saying "let's see if he'll become what we think he might become and then sign him long term".

His salary is much lower than his cap hit right now.

Cap hit is irrelevant because we aren’t spending to the cap.

Our season has been ruined by a horrible start, COVID and injuries. Despite all that, he’s on pace to beat career highs in goals and points.

As a power forward, his skillset has a lot of room to develop along with his strength and frame. He’s shown a willingness to battle on behalf of his teammates.

I couldn’t be happier with his progression this year.

He just played a whale of a game. Maybe just enjoy that for a few days before getting on his back.

 

[SensontheRush]

How do you figure that? Do the Sens have a clause in the contract that reduces the cap hit or salary if Brady doesn't meet certain performance markers? You give a guy a 7 year contract, you're not paying for potential you're paying for them to perform a certain way. And with the cap hit he has, he's getting paid to perform like the best player on the team. This really isn't that wild of a statement to make. Bridging him would have been about potential because you'd be saying "let's see if he'll become what we think he might become and then sign him long term".

I feel no matter what, if we bridged Tkachuk, his next contract was going to be greater than $8.2m, no question.

His point totals could be better, but he's also the only guy on the team willing to hit Ovechkin, and when Paul was taunting Wilson to fight, Tkachuk was actually trying to butt in so HE could fight Wilson instead.

I also feel like you are more talking ideally than in practice; GMs around the league are not using your logic when they are "overpaying" their young guys.

 

[GCK]

To be fair, he's the highest paid player on the team and the captain. The expectations should be extremely high, no? It's no longer about potential, it's about performance.

This is partially true. He needs to perform but expecting him to have reached his potential already is unfair.

 

[GCK]

So he gets a pass because he decided to defer most of his salary to the latter part of his contract due to heavy escrow currently in place?

But when people were criticizing Murray's poor play last year relative to his contract I didn't see anyone saying "well, technically, he's only making $4 million this year". It seems to be an argument of convenience, more than anything else.

Murray didn’t come close to performing at a 4M level.

 

[GCK]

How do you figure that? Do the Sens have a clause in the contract that reduces the cap hit or salary if Brady doesn't meet certain performance markers? You give a guy a 7 year contract, you're not paying for potential you're paying for them to perform a certain way. And with the cap hit he has, he's getting paid to perform like the best player on the team. This really isn't that wild of a statement to make. Bridging him would have been about potential because you'd be saying "let's see if he'll become what we think he might become and then sign him long term".

All long term contracts coming out of ELC have “potential” baked in.

 

[NyQuil]

So he gets a pass because he decided to defer most of his salary to the latter part of his contract due to heavy escrow currently in place?

But when people were criticizing Murray's poor play last year relative to his contract I didn't see anyone saying "well, technically, he's only making $4 million this year". It seems to be an argument of convenience, more than anything else.

If Murray was having the best season of his career last year your point might be applicable.

 

[Micklebot]

The guy is 22 and on pace for around:

~30 goals
~65-70 pts
~300 shots
~300 hits

All that after missing camp to a contract holdout which typically has a negative impact on player's seasons.

He's also doing this on a team that's been pretty badly hit by injuries.

He's doing great. Things look very bright for him.

 

[Byron Bitz]

What I don’t understand about how Dorion structured these contracts is why he’s giving them the highest salaries during what will be key years in the window if the rebuild is successful. In the 23-24 season Murray and Tkachuk will be making a combined 18.5 mill in salary, that takes up a huge portion of the budget when they’re trying to compete for the cup.

 

[GCK]

What I don’t understand about how Dorion structured these contracts is why he’s giving them the highest salaries during what will be key years in the window if the rebuild is successful. In the 23-24 season Murray and Tkachuk will be making a combined 18.5 mill in salary, that takes up a huge portion of the budget when they’re trying to compete for the cup.

Melnyk likes to put off paying while players want to avoid escrow.

 

[Agent Zub]

Interesting that point totals have come back again after he reverted to a more simple style of game rather than the skilled puck possession and passing game he was trying to play.

Which I don't know how to feel as Brady needs to add the latter traits to his game if he is to take the next step. But he is clearly more effective playing an off puck, grinding game looking for tips, rebounds and taking shots.

 

[Alfie11]

The guy is 22 and on pace for around:

~30 goals
~65-70 pts
~300 shots
~300 hits

All that after missing camp to a contract holdout which typically has a negative impact on player's seasons.

He's also doing this on a team that's been pretty badly hit by injuries.

He's doing great. Things look very bright for him.

He is. To be honest, numbers wise 30G and 70-75Pts is what I considered to be peak for him and basically what the Sens were paying for in his prime.

Brady is not being paid because they expect 100Pts from him. He's a very good offensive player with size, strength and leadership. I don't really know what some fans from Tkachuk. He's not McDavid but he is a franchise cornerstone and he is playing like it.

 

[BankStreetParade]

His salary is much lower than his cap hit right now.

Cap hit is irrelevant because we aren’t spending to the cap.

How convenient! I wonder if other players on this team merit the same consideration.

This is partially true. He needs to perform but expecting him to have reached his potential already is unfair.

Well, when you sign a big money extension in a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately league you don't get the courtesy of "yeah but here's what we might expect down the road". Potential is great but at the end of this contract, we're going to lump all his stats together without the additional context of each individual season. That's how the NHL works and the only reason we're even having this discussion is because the guy is very popular and seems to be above criticism with this fanbase.

Murray didn’t come close to performing at a 4M level.

If Murray was having the best season of his career last year your point might be applicable.

These arguments might stand on their own if Murray's contract existed in a vacuum but you don't evaluate his performance and that year's salary relative to his peers' salaries do you? Anyway, hardly surprising for two of the biggest Murray critics on this sub.

 

[NyQuil]

How convenient! I wonder if other players on this team merit the same consideration.

Of course.

Who cares what the cap means if you're not spending to it? It's a completely pointless measure.

I judge players by their progress against their respective developmental stage.

It means that I expect different things from Tkachuk, Batherson, Norris than I do from Zaitsev, Brown and Ennis.

As others have said, a long contract to a young player is a down payment on future value. A long contract to a player in his prime is a tax to be paid against his future decline.

Well, when you sign a big money extension in a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately league you don't get the courtesy of "yeah but here's what we might expect down the road". Potential is great but at the end of this contract, we're going to lump all his stats together without the additional context of each individual season. That's how the NHL works and the only reason we're even having this discussion is because the guy is very popular and seems to be above criticism with this fanbase.

Great, we can reconvene in seven years and add up all the stats you want.

I'm not sure why you're losing your shit about a sample of 42 games into that contract where he's not even doing that badly considering we've had the evil eye on our franchise seemingly from Day 1 of the season.

When I criticize him, it's based on my expectations of his play at his current age and developmental stage. Not some arbitrary slice of a pie that we aren't even consuming.

Do I think Tkachuk is overpaid? Sure, to the tune of about $700K to a million bucks. In the end, Dorion caved to keep his Captain. Thankfully, Batherson's contract balances it out.

These arguments might stand on their own if Murray's contract existed in a vacuum but you don't evaluate his performance and that year's salary relative to his peers' salaries do you? Anyway, hardly surprising for two of the biggest Murray critics on this sub.

Murray played like shit last year for all kinds of reasons - some because of the team, and the early composition, and some because of him. He's playing much better this year since being recalled.

As far as goalies are concerned, whoever is playing the best should play - clearly that's Murray of late.

I'm not understanding your Murray comparison.

Either he's on a shitty contract and clearly not living up to it (e.g. apply your Tkachuk logic to his performance over the all of the stats being lumped together without additional context) or you think there does have to be additional context levied for Matt which makes me wonder why you won't extend Brady the same courtesy.

Ironically, Murray has played almost exactly the same number of games on his contract as Tkachuk has on his, only he's 27 years old with two Cup rings under his belt.

The fact of the matter is that his contract was backloaded just as Tkachuk's was, and it makes sense as he becomes more important to the team as the team becomes more competitive, and his stats should reflect that as well.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

So he gets a pass because he decided to defer most of his salary to the latter part of his contract due to heavy escrow currently in place?

But when people were criticizing Murray's poor play last year relative to his contract I didn't see anyone saying "well, technically, he's only making $4 million this year". It seems to be an argument of convenience, more than anything else.

When a team is near the cap floor then a player's cap hit for that given season is far less important than their actual salary. Given the fact that the Senators are a budget team, salary is an important factor because their are limits on spending and therefore the return on each dollar spent (or performance of players relative to actual salary) needs to be far more scrutinized.

It is fine to judge Tkachuk's performance on his cap hit than his actual salary but that also means that during the portion of his contract where his actual salary exceeds his cap hit that the same standard needs to apply. Therefore arguments about his performance cannot be measured against his actual salary in the future, only his cap hit.

With that said, what are your expectations for Tkachuk this season? From what you have stated it seems like you are suggesting that he is failing to live up to certain expectations. Therefore it would be helpful to to have a clear understanding of what your expectations are.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

The guy is 22 and on pace for around:

~30 goals
~65-70 pts
~300 shots
~300 hits

All that after missing camp to a contract holdout which typically has a negative impact on player's seasons.

He's also doing this on a team that's been pretty badly hit by injuries.

He's doing great. Things look very bright for him.

Another thing worth noting is his improved defensive play. He is one of the best backcheckers on the team and has made some very impressive defensive plays this season.

 

[DJB]

Another thing worth noting is his improved defensive play. He is one of the best backcheckers on the team and has made some very impressive defensive plays this season.

Its the biggest improvement in his game so far this year after many on here were critical of that portion of his game.

Seems the negative Nancy's have quieted for now

 

[BankStreetParade]

When a team is near the cap floor then a player's cap hit for that given season is far less important than their actual salary. Given the fact that the Senators are a budget team, salary is an important factor because their are limits on spending and therefore the return on each dollar spent (or performance of players relative to actual salary) needs to be far more scrutinized.

It is fine to judge Tkachuk's performance on his cap hit than his actual salary but that also means that during the portion of his contract where his actual salary exceeds his cap hit that the same standard needs to apply. Therefore arguments about his performance cannot be measured against his actual salary in the future, only his cap hit.

With that said, what are your expectations for Tkachuk this season? From what you have stated it seems like you are suggesting that he is failing to live up to certain expectations. Therefore it would be helpful to to have a clear understanding of what your expectations are.

Sure, I'll play along. At $4 million, we're getting A+ value out of him. No question. Why don't you tell me what your expectations will be for him when he's making $10.5 million? Give me a realistic measuring stick for his performance that eclipses his current performance at $4 million per year.

 

[Agent Zub]

Its the biggest improvement in his game so far this year after many on here were critical of that portion of his game.

Seems the negative Nancy's have quieted for now

This type of thinking is so weird.

Some people comment that Brady's defensive game is lacking, they get lots of pushback for some reason. Later he improves on it and everyone agrees he improves on it, proceed to call out people out who said his defensive game and effort needed improvements in the first place like it wasn't true. while also acknowledging that there was a big improvement. ???

Nothing negative Nancy about it. Just people commenting on the play of a hockey player.

 

[aragorn]

So he gets a pass because he decided to defer most of his salary to the latter part of his contract due to heavy escrow currently in place?

But when people were criticizing Murray's poor play last year relative to his contract I didn't see anyone saying "well, technically, he's only making $4 million this year". It seems to be an argument of convenience, more than anything else.

What do you mean he gets a pass? What exactly is he not doing that he should be doing more? IMO he comes exactly as advertised & he's playing without his regular linemates & still contibuting? What is Stutzle doing? Chabot hasn't scored on the PP in forever, what is it you are looking for from Tkachuk?