Confirmed with Link: Boyle is a Leaf (2nd, Froese going to TBL)

[darrylsittler27]

It depends on the draft.

Option one Boyle resigns allowing Toronto to trade Bozak,a big win. Option 2 Boyle doesn't resign, ok that is bad except this draft sucks. I doubt whoever they pick ever becomes a player of significance but Boyle can help the kids before they develop JVR/Bozakitis(I like long summers!). A second rounder in this draft would be a 3rd or a 4th in the last 2 drafts.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

I hope we can re-sign him after the expansion draft.

Matthews, Kadri, Boyle, GOAT is a contender like center group

Fixed

 

[GoonieFace]

So basically this started as a 5 year build till we could consider this team a real contender. So year 1 we perform well above most rational people's expectations, and decide to part with an extra asset for some short term help and people are losing their s$&t. This is why most people think Leafs are morons. But I'm guessing anyone questioning the trade isn't much of a fan or has no knowledge of hockey.

 

[ponder]

I'm a bit negative on the trade, but not massively so.

Not sure why people keep bringing up Bozak - Boyle is a 4C, not a top-3 C, he isn't competing with Bozak for a spot. He's been pretty exclusively a 4C throughout his career, and is playing 4C for us right now. He's competing with other 4Cs like Gauthier and Ben Smith. If we deal Bozak, we'll likely move Nylander to C (his natural position), and go with Matthews/Nylander/Kadri as our top 3 Cs - Boyle isn't in the picture for these spots IMO.

At 4C, Boyle is definitely an upgrade on Gauthier this year, and probably next year too, if we re-sign him. Gauthier might pass him in a few years - Gauthier is 21, while Boyle is 32. However, no matter what, we're still just looking at a small-ish upgrade at the 4C position, which is simply not a very high impact spot. Is that worth a 2nd round pick? Even in a weak draft, I'd say no, it's fairly poor value for us, ESPECIALLY if Boyle ends up being just a rental. Still, a bit of bad value isn't the end of the world, and if Babs/Lou want him around for his impact on the kids, I'm cool with that. Hence "a bit negative on the trade, but not massively so."

 

[Xscout*]

Seeing a lot of labels.
What would one consider the atoi for a "#4 C" ?
I'd say around 10 mins, no? Maybe 12 w/ some special teams?

Boyle this year averaging 13:37 atoi so far.
Seems like more ice than a "#4 C" should get.

Very down to re up Boyle & deal Bozak at the draft, personally.

 

[The Caveman]

Boyle-Goat -Martin would make a very good 4th line and give us flexibility with respect to having extra centres on the roster.

 

[Pookie]

The mistake some make is thinking that a smart management team like ours would blindly stick to a rudimentary fan fantasy "plan" over actual on ice success and hockey moves. This idea that they would just keep blindly selling every year until they were suddenly a cup caliber team was always a dumb one.

The team went with the kiddie core this year. It was up to them to sink or swim. If they sank, they would have been sellers, since they swam, we're buyers. That was always the plan. The plan didn't change.

I mean we gave up much more future for andersen.

Hey zeke. Long time no direct talk.

When I posted this question in the playoff thread on Jan 4:

Natural to want them to win. Get in the playoffs and anyone can win.

The bigger question to grapple with is if it meant the Leafs turning down offers at the trade deadline in order to qualify, would that be the best thing for the franchise?

You replied

I still think we should trade the handful of vets at the deadline if we can get something for them.

We have a few kids on the marlies who have probably earned a look

Can you believe that you and I were actually on the same page, before you moved the goalposts to "dumb" and "blindly selling?"

 

[Superstar]

Moved.

 

[Pookie]

Moved.

To...?

 

[zeke]

kind of amazing how much better he makes the 4th line.

if we make the playoffs, he'll be a key reason.

 

[darrylsittler27]

I'm a bit negative on the trade, but not massively so.

Not sure why people keep bringing up Bozak - Boyle is a 4C, not a top-3 C, he isn't competing with Bozak for a spot. He's been pretty exclusively a 4C throughout his career, and is playing 4C for us right now. He's competing with other 4Cs like Gauthier and Ben Smith. If we deal Bozak, we'll likely move Nylander to C (his natural position), and go with Matthews/Nylander/Kadri as our top 3 Cs - Boyle isn't in the picture for these spots IMO.

At 4C, Boyle is definitely an upgrade on Gauthier this year, and probably next year too, if we re-sign him. Gauthier might pass him in a few years - Gauthier is 21, while Boyle is 32. However, no matter what, we're still just looking at a small-ish upgrade at the 4C position, which is simply not a very high impact spot. Is that worth a 2nd round pick? Even in a weak draft, I'd say no, it's fairly poor value for us, ESPECIALLY if Boyle ends up being just a rental. Still, a bit of bad value isn't the end of the world, and if Babs/Lou want him around for his impact on the kids, I'm cool with that. Hence "a bit negative on the trade, but not massively so."

We can still get a 2nd for Bozak by eating some contract. Nylander is our 3rd C next year.

 

[number72]

can I change my vote?

 

[Slyfox]

Boyle-Goat -Martin would make a very good 4th line and give us flexibility with respect to having extra centres on the roster.

Zero offense on that line. 4th lines on cup contending teams have players whom can score.

 

[Slyfox]

So basically this started as a 5 year build till we could consider this team a real contender. So year 1 we perform well above most rational people's expectations, and decide to part with an extra asset for some short term help and people are losing their s$&t. This is why most people think Leafs are morons. But I'm guessing anyone questioning the trade isn't much of a fan or has no knowledge of hockey.

Why throw assets away when the goal is to let the rookies learn? People are complaining because Boyle is taking time away from Gauthier who needs to play to get better. Also, we aren't a 4C from winning the cup so why throw a second round pick for free?

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Why throw assets away when the goal is to let the rookies learn? People are complaining because Boyle is taking time away from Gauthier who needs to play to get better. Also, we aren't a 4C from winning the cup so why throw a second round pick for free?

Gauthier has 9 goals in 111 pro games. He can learn in the AHL. But throwing away picks for marginal upgrades doesn't make sense when the team is far from done rebuilding.

 

[Slyfox]

Gauthier has 9 goals in 111 pro games. He can learn in the AHL. But throwing away picks for marginal upgrades doesn't make sense when the team is far from done rebuilding.

I hope this trade isn't a sign of more hastily moves like this.

 

[The Caveman]

For those who believe that management have deviated from "the plan," we have yet to see what Lou and gang will do before July 1. There were no significant "hockey trades" at the TDL because of expansion. Taking on a higher price tag player like JVR or Bozak, who would have gone to a good team, would have protection slot implications for whoever traded for him. If Lou wanted a D in return, nobody wants to part with a roster player if they were in the hunt.

Before judging wether or not they "deviated" from the plan, lets wait until after July1. It's only fair.

But bringing in Boyle and not doing a veteran sell-off does in fact fit with another tenet of "the plan," which is to "over-ripen" players in the AHL. Again. we can argue about the benefits/negatives of that, but sending Freddy back and not bringing up young D who are not ready are examples of that.

Acquiring (keeping) draft choices is one aspect of the rebuild, and we have as many coming out of the TDL as we had going in though the 2nd is now a 4th. Experience and mentorship for our players is another important part of it as well.

 

[BlueBaron]

I'm a bit negative on the trade, but not massively so.

Not sure why people keep bringing up Bozak - Boyle is a 4C, not a top-3 C, he isn't competing with Bozak for a spot. He's been pretty exclusively a 4C throughout his career, and is playing 4C for us right now. He's competing with other 4Cs like Gauthier and Ben Smith. If we deal Bozak, we'll likely move Nylander to C (his natural position), and go with Matthews/Nylander/Kadri as our top 3 Cs - Boyle isn't in the picture for these spots IMO.

At 4C, Boyle is definitely an upgrade on Gauthier this year, and probably next year too, if we re-sign him. Gauthier might pass him in a few years - Gauthier is 21, while Boyle is 32. However, no matter what, we're still just looking at a small-ish upgrade at the 4C position, which is simply not a very high impact spot. Is that worth a 2nd round pick? Even in a weak draft, I'd say no, it's fairly poor value for us, ESPECIALLY if Boyle ends up being just a rental. Still, a bit of bad value isn't the end of the world, and if Babs/Lou want him around for his impact on the kids, I'm cool with that. Hence "a bit negative on the trade, but not massively so."

You are probably right, if you ignore intangibles. In terms of leadership, size, playoff experience, face offs,and defense he is a massive upgrade. We have to extend him for this to be an unquestionable win but even if we do not, it's not a bad investment.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

You are probably right, if you ignore intangibles. In terms of leadership, size, playoff experience, face offs,and defense he is a massive upgrade. We have to extend him for this to be an unquestionable win but even if we do not, it's not a bad investment.

How is this move worthwhile at all if the Leafs don't make the playoffs and Boyle walks as a UFA?

As an even worse scenario, imagine that Boyle gets re-signed at $2.5M+/year and the Leafs end up committing $6M on a fourth line for no discernible reason.

I hope this trade isn't a sign of more hastily moves like this.

It fits a discouraging pattern with the Martin signing and Andersen trade/signing.

 

[Critical13]

How is this move worthwhile at all if the Leafs don't make the playoffs and Boyle walks as a UFA?

As an even worse scenario, imagine that Boyle gets re-signed at $2.5M+/year and the Leafs end up committing $6M on a fourth line for no discernible reason.



It fits a discouraging pattern with the Martin signing and Andersen trade/signing.

The Andersen signing doesn't fit this pattern. We traded for a good, young #1 goalie. A late first is market value.

Trading for Boyle was a risky move of a high end asset for an expiring contract 4th liner.

 

[ARoggy94]

Really hope Martin gets picked up by Vegas

 

[Slyfox]

How is this move worthwhile at all if the Leafs don't make the playoffs and Boyle walks as a UFA?

As an even worse scenario, imagine that Boyle gets re-signed at $2.5M+/year and the Leafs end up committing $6M on a fourth line for no discernible reason.



It fits a discouraging pattern with the Martin signing and Andersen trade/signing.

I 100% agree with the bolded. I'm worried they are already jumping ship. Martin has been horrible and imagine we had Leivo in his place we would be a much better team. Andersen was another weird trade esp now considering how he hasn't played as well as we hoped. This summer is when we see the true colours of the Leafs organization. Do they want to do a proper rebuild or are they willing to skip steps.

 

[Slyfox]

Really hope Martin gets picked up by Vegas

Horrible signing. Hated it when they signed it and now hate it more esp since Leivo (9pts in 12 games ) has to sit for this plug.

 

[Carl33]

Originally Posted by ARoggy94 View Post

Really hope Martin gets picked up by Vegas

Horrible signing. Hated it when they signed it and now hate it more esp since Leivo (9pts in 12 games ) has to sit for this plug.

I'm not a leaf fan, Martin is overpay, but as a 4rth line player, he's fine and I think useful, when crosby came to the ligue, Pittsburg hired Andre Roy and Eric Cairns....2 guys worst than Martin...to protect Crosby....Edmonton Hire Gryba, Kassian, Hendricks to protect Mcdavid....Toronto hire Martin...

Martin is a protectior with the leafs Young kids, the kids are probably confident that if they get hit hard, Martin will go after the guy ...and Martin is relatively able to play, so its not as bad as it look, its just the money he get...Clutterbuck earn 3,5M...

Leivo need to play, 100% agree, should play with Kadri, The produce good number together....how kadri production goes since leivo is out?

 

[White Shadow]

I 100% agree with the bolded. I'm worried they are already jumping ship. Martin has been horrible and imagine we had Leivo in his place we would be a much better team. Andersen was another weird trade esp now considering how he hasn't played as well as we hoped. This summer is when we see the true colours of the Leafs organization. Do they want to do a proper rebuild or are they willing to skip steps.

Both Martin and Freddie have been as advertised. The Leafs are getting a good return on both those contracts.

Martin has brought his shot suppression prowess with him and continues to hit everything that moves. He keeps the flies off the young guys while filling a role defensively on what has become a solid 4th line.

Freddie has played to a near identical career save percentage while playing more games than he has ever played before in a season and doing so behind an incredibly porous defense.

Forwards and goaltending are not areas of concern for this team.