Confirmed with Link: Boyle is a Leaf (2nd, Froese going to TBL)

[Daisy Jane]

quite frankly, and I've said this a lot -

I don't think anyone expected everyone to be this good. now a bit has to do with our division being very wonky this season - but if the Leafs were clearly out of it. the lineup decisions would be a LOT different and the decisions made would have been a lot different. (maybe. because there is still expansion to consider).

but Lou et.al had been saying from when Nylander + friends came up around this time last year. They do not want to let the future of this team mire in constant losing. No one is to come here and assume anything. that they have a position, that they're got ice time, that they've got PP/PK time, and that being "mediocre" is acceptable. so I always thought they'd do something to keep the Leafs toes to the fire and help them play meaningful games.

it's just that "meaningful games" in this regards - means nailing down a playoff spot - not making the surge to try and claim one. this is also part of the rebuilding process, and can not be ignored. It would mean one thing had they hadn't been consistent about this since when we were trying to be dead last. this isn't something new for Shanahan and everyone.

so if we draft 15th instead of 10th, or that pick is gone - you have to weigh that to what it means to Nylander, Marner, Matthews, etc, that management trusts them enough to give them a boost to do something people didn't expect them to do. And if they get there, what they could figure out and learn and add to their arsenal. and if they miss - it can crystialize what Babcock has been preaching all season about being more hard defensively (to get more offense) - as well as locking down games, so they don't have to feel like pants next April should they miss.

all Kadri, Jake and Rielly (parts of our core) - have ever known - is what it is like to collapse, and lose, and be out of it by this time. why the everloving heck people want that for Nylander, Matthews and company so we can draft someone in the 2nd round is beyond me. trust Lou to try to either A: get that asset back somehow or B: get someone via free agencies (which there are several) or off waivers to compensate.

The big picture. let's try looking at it.

 

[Stephen]

i think we just need steady, dependable people.

like. I'm sorry. a good chunk of this team has only known how to crash this time of year. and even when they did make it there - they blew up in game seven.

having more capable people isn't bad.
having people who have won and was a part of it is a good thing
and obviously having more talented pieces help this out too.

Not disagreeing, but you need to have the lead dogs in place to make it all work.

You put Rielly in a leading role on the defense, he's terrible. If you played him in a lesser role like Hunwick or Gardiner's with the right people ahead of him? He shines.

Same with adding other top four defensemen by committee. Francois Beauchemin was a steady capable defenseman everywhere except when he gets to Toronto and they want to use him like Ray Bourque. He didn't have Pronger or Niedermayer anymore.

Think of Rielly like a Kadri. When he's thrust into a leading role it's not pretty. Slot him properly and he'll be an asset.

 

[diceman934]

Not disagreeing, but you need to have the lead dogs in place to make it all work.

You put Rielly in a leading role on the defense, he's terrible. If you played him in a lesser role like Hunwick or Gardiner's with the right people ahead of him? He shines.

Same with adding other top four defensemen by committee. Francois Beauchemin was a steady capable defenseman everywhere except when he gets to Toronto and they want to use him like Ray Bourque. He didn't have Pronger or Niedermayer anymore.

Think of Rielly like a Kadri. When he's thrust into a leading role it's not pretty. Slot him properly and he'll be an asset.

One legged Rielly has struggled....but his partner more so, hence the move to the second pair. Rielly played that lead role on two different teams this past summer and was excellent and will be again. He needs a partner who can play with him and we will find that player, but make no mistake Rielly is going to be good.

One last thing.....forwards count as part of team defensive and we will be better next year with the experience gleamed from this season along with the continued purged of players who are not that good in that aspect next season.

 

[Stephen]

One legged Rielly has struggled....but his partner more so, hence the move to the second pair. Rielly played that lead role on two different teams this past summer and was excellent and will be again. He needs a partner who can play with him and we will find that player, but make no mistake Rielly is going to be good.

One last thing.....forwards count as part of team defensive and we will be better next year with the experience gleamed from this season along with the continued purged of players who are not that good in that aspect next season.

I'm a Rielly fan, but each player needs to be evaluated for what they do and not place blame on their partners, etc. He would do very well with sheltered minutes and if he had a better veteran partner, but he's also got to be accountable for what he does.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

One legged Rielly has struggled....but his partner more so, hence the move to the second pair. Rielly played that lead role on two different teams this past summer and was excellent and will be again. He needs a partner who can play with him and we will find that player, but make no mistake Rielly is going to be good.

One last thing.....forwards count as part of team defensive and we will be better next year with the experience gleamed from this season along with the continued purged of players who are not that good in that aspect next season.

He already is good. He is just not that poised. Thats not a poke at him, just the way he is. Even Marner and Matthews are not poised. For example: if Marner was more poised in front of the net(he rushes shots for some reason) he would have maybe a dozen more goals. The teams problem in defending and controlling third period leads all comes down to poise on a entire team level.

Someone needs to tell them how good they are and not how new and young and unexpected they have been. If they were poised it would mean they are confident. Why aren't they all confident and poised in defending enough to do what they do best, play offense?

This is a damn good team already but have a terrible failure complex. Rielly is not different than many. They need to get some swagger that fits being good.

 

[Superstar]

quite frankly, and I've said this a lot -

I don't think anyone expected everyone to be this good. now a bit has to do with our division being very wonky this season - but if the Leafs were clearly out of it. the lineup decisions would be a LOT different and the decisions made would have been a lot different. (maybe. because there is still expansion to consider).

but Lou et.al had been saying from when Nylander + friends came up around this time last year. They do not want to let the future of this team mire in constant losing. No one is to come here and assume anything. that they have a position, that they're got ice time, that they've got PP/PK time, and that being "mediocre" is acceptable. so I always thought they'd do something to keep the Leafs toes to the fire and help them play meaningful games.

it's just that "meaningful games" in this regards - means nailing down a playoff spot - not making the surge to try and claim one. this is also part of the rebuilding process, and can not be ignored. It would mean one thing had they hadn't been consistent about this since when we were trying to be dead last. this isn't something new for Shanahan and everyone.

so if we draft 15th instead of 10th, or that pick is gone - you have to weigh that to what it means to Nylander, Marner, Matthews, etc, that management trusts them enough to give them a boost to do something people didn't expect them to do. And if they get there, what they could figure out and learn and add to their arsenal. and if they miss - it can crystialize what Babcock has been preaching all season about being more hard defensively (to get more offense) - as well as locking down games, so they don't have to feel like pants next April should they miss.

all Kadri, Jake and Rielly (parts of our core) - have ever known - is what it is like to collapse, and lose, and be out of it by this time. why the everloving heck people want that for Nylander, Matthews and company so we can draft someone in the 2nd round is beyond me. trust Lou to try to either A: get that asset back somehow or B: get someone via free agencies (which there are several) or off waivers to compensate.

The big picture. let's try looking at it.

Always a breath of fresh air, Daisy.

 

[diceman934]

He already is good. He is just not that poised. Thats not a poke at him, just the way he is. Even Marner and Matthews are not poised. For example: if Marner was more poised in front of the net(he rushes shots for some reason) he would have maybe a dozen more goals. The teams problem in defending and controlling third period leads all comes down to poise on a entire team level.

Someone needs to tell them how good they are and not how new and young and unexpected they have been. If they were poised it would mean they are confident. Why aren't they all confident and poised in defending enough to do what they do best, play offense?

This is a damn good team already but have a terrible failure complex. Rielly is not different than many. They need to get some swagger that fits being good.

We are on our way to being a very good team and need to continue to upgrade our players, We have 3 forwards who this year have been as close to useless as you can get and they play key roles currently. We also need a couple of D man as well.

Leo has been horrible this year, JVR looks like he is ready to move on and Bozak is Bozak who usually plays uninspired hockey. We have upgrades coming as well as trades this summer coming. We have a lot of depth in forwards and need to acquire some more D depth this summer and I think we will.

Babs has been grooming our core players this year and has been slowly putting them into more key roles and it will pay off come next season. We need to be able to compete for the cup in two years as cap crunch will happen sooner than most think.

We are playing like a young team....the expectations some on here place on this team is crazy as we are playing more rookies this year then any team has every has and we are playing reasonable well which bodes well for the future.

We are simply put a young team, I disagree with us being a terrible failure complex team...it is age and inexperience that is the issue.

 

[Egghead1999]

I'm not sure anyone saying it doesn't matter, but in this case it was the cost to obtain and the amount of time here. If it's just 20 games, I don't think it was worth the cost.

I hope he re-signs - then I can see why they did it
JVR and Bozak are not leaders. Although babs did give Bozak the 'A' did he not? And Hunwick?

Shanahan and co. wanted to identify all fair weather players and trade them away. Boyle trade helped leafs to fast track their goal quickly

 

[A1LeafNation]

I hope we can re-sign him after the expansion draft.

Matthews Bozak Kadri Boyle is a contender like center group

 

[Egghead1999]

I hope we can re-sign him after the expansion draft.

Matthews Bozak Kadri Boyle is a contender like center group

Bozak will be traded before the next season deadline

 

[Pookie]

quite frankly, and I've said this a lot -

I don't think anyone expected everyone to be this good. now a bit has to do with our division being very wonky this season - but if the Leafs were clearly out of it. the lineup decisions would be a LOT different and the decisions made would have been a lot different. (maybe. because there is still expansion to consider).

but Lou et.al had been saying from when Nylander + friends came up around this time last year. They do not want to let the future of this team mire in constant losing. No one is to come here and assume anything. that they have a position, that they're got ice time, that they've got PP/PK time, and that being "mediocre" is acceptable. so I always thought they'd do something to keep the Leafs toes to the fire and help them play meaningful games.

it's just that "meaningful games" in this regards - means nailing down a playoff spot - not making the surge to try and claim one. this is also part of the rebuilding process, and can not be ignored. It would mean one thing had they hadn't been consistent about this since when we were trying to be dead last. this isn't something new for Shanahan and everyone.

so if we draft 15th instead of 10th, or that pick is gone - you have to weigh that to what it means to Nylander, Marner, Matthews, etc, that management trusts them enough to give them a boost to do something people didn't expect them to do. And if they get there, what they could figure out and learn and add to their arsenal. and if they miss - it can crystialize what Babcock has been preaching all season about being more hard defensively (to get more offense) - as well as locking down games, so they don't have to feel like pants next April should they miss.

all Kadri, Jake and Rielly (parts of our core) - have ever known - is what it is like to collapse, and lose, and be out of it by this time. why the everloving heck people want that for Nylander, Matthews and company so we can draft someone in the 2nd round is beyond me. trust Lou to try to either A: get that asset back somehow or B: get someone via free agencies (which there are several) or off waivers to compensate.

The big picture. let's try looking at it.

I think this nailing down a playoff spot to teach them something is HUGELY overstated.

It's a feeling. Not a fact.

Clearly, to be winners you need to actually win. Cups get awarded to actual wins.

If a Cup is the goal, winning in the playoffs is key.

But it's not key this year. Or next. Or even key to the mental and physical development of the players.

Penguins went 22-46-14 and 29th overall in Crosby's first NHL season.

It was also Fluery's first NHL season in goal and he went 13-27-6 that year with an .898 save percentage.

Other pieces of their puzzle including drafted players like Armstrong, Orpick and Whitney were along for that ride as well.

Duncan Keith and Brent Seabrook played a full season for the Hawks while they posted a 26-43-13 record. And followed up that campaign with another fun 31-42-9. Cam Barker, Byfgulien and Ruutu were also around for that fun.

Losing now doesn't scar players for life.

And in your opening statement, no one expected them to be here. Which means losing was anticipated. Were they doomed to mediocrity? Or course not.

You learn and grow from adversity. Something this participation ribbon society could take a lesson from.

 

[Slyfox]

This trade is looking worse and worse by the day.

 

[ACC1224]

This trade is looking worse and worse by the day.

Boyle's looked great to me.

 

[Slyfox]

Boyle's looked great to me.

Could had him for free next year. Why give up a valuable second round pick for 9th place finish?

 

[ACC1224]

Could had him for free next year. Why give up a valuable second round pick for 9th place finish?

Read the thread from the beginning, it's been explained 100's of times.

 

[Field of Dreams]

Read the thread from the beginning, it's been explained 100's of times.

This was a poor decision, regardless of how some people spin it.

 

[Pookie]

Boyle's looked great to me.

It was sold as helping the team win.

So in that sense, 1 out of 6 possible points is bad.

I don't care about that personally. It was more about the direction and missed opportunity cost

 

[Leafidelity]

Boyle's looked great to me.

Yeah, I hope he re-signs here. The 4th line is playing good hockey now, a vet down the middle was much needed.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Should have picked up Iginla. A real pro to help the kids learn

 

[ACC1224]

Yeah, I hope he re-signs here. The 4th line is playing good hockey now, a vet down the middle was much needed.

Yep, it's like night and day. They were certainly one of the better lines last night.

 

[Jack Bauer]

I'm a Rielly fan, but each player needs to be evaluated for what they do and not place blame on their partners, etc. He would do very well with sheltered minutes and if he had a better veteran partner, but he's also got to be accountable for what he does.

Yes he should be accountable but how much do you punish the guy for playing through an injury to try and show the younger guys what leadership means in the NHL. Is he as good? Of course not. But is he better then our #7? Yes. Hell banged up Rielly is better then our #4 so when playing against some of the biggest and best forward groups in the league on a tough road trip a few bad nights might be the kind of things that the entire group learn from as they progress through their Leaf careers.

I think we all, for the most part, see Rielly the same way as a guy who can play top pairing minutes but will be at his best when he has a pillar to play with and rely on either in terms of someone on his other side or to lead a pair with someone else and make Rielly a dominant 2nd pairing guy.

Those kind of defencemen cost a lot. I think we're all wondering when is the time to make a move like that as timing is important but you also need to strike when certain players are available in todays NHL where everyone is scared of making a mistake and usually internal disagreements or contract issues are what force 90% of the movement it feels like.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Should have picked up Iginla. A real pro to help the kids learn

If he could play down the middle I bet we would have. Move some of the depth at wing and an Iginla as a 12th/13th forward would be a great off season addition on a cheap 1 year deal.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I was being facetious but wow how quickly things have changed from how important every pick is to stockpile, to trading picks for aging rental vets for character building.

Having said that, Boyle does address a need down the middle and if he re-signs then it will make sense to me.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I was being facetious but wow how quickly things have changed from how important every pick is to stockpile, to trading picks for aging rental vets for character building.

Having said that, Boyle does address a need down the middle and if he re-signs then it will make sense to me.

one pick doesn't change that mentality though.
and considering how weak our centre depth is (for the 4th line options) it was a move we had to do.

Honestly that game vs. Montreal should have been crystalized for people.
and while it is simple as "we could have moved Nylander to the centre" that would have created another deficit offensively, because who plays on wing? (because Leivo was playing that night, and Kappy/Leipsic weren't skating then).

it's better for Gauthier to play more minutes. he's not getting that being sheltered up here.
Ben Smith should NOT be on the ice at all.

so if Boyle doesn't re-sign (or wasn't trading for) would everyone be aces with Smith having more playing time? (I am going to assume the answer is a big fat n.o. on that score).

 

[taurine330]

I hope we can re-sign him after the expansion draft.

Matthews Bozak Kadri Boyle is a contender like center group

Bozak needs to be gone.