Prospect Info: Bowen Byram - Canada’s Savior - Thread 2.0

[Pierce Hawthorne]

@Pierce Hawthorne Further to the conversation above here's some analytics that support exactly what I was saying earlier about Timmins and Girard struggling a lot off the puck together.

Bednar is very much into data as well, and this is likely why Timmins was taken off the pairing with Girard, and then subsequently scratched.

Btw, compare where Graves + Girard (27+49) appear on that graph, to where Timmins + Girard (22+49) appear. Night and day. Even if Graves had a shocker last night he's still done better on paper next to Girard than Timmins has.

View attachment 387392

Honestly could not care less what the stats say. Its been 5 freaking games and the pairings have hardly played together in any capacity due to the constant rotation of players.

Not to mention Timmins is still only 10 games into his NHL career.

Long term, they're a good fit for each other. Simple as that.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Lol, Byram's like "Mackinnon who?! Just get outta my way"

Complete contrast to Makar who would have likely deferred to Mackinnon. Byram being the cocky hot shot rookie he is couldnt care less to look off the MVP. I loved it. I wish Makar was more like that instead of always looking for big brother Nathan

 

[tigervixxxen]

Yeah I don’t think Byram’s IQ and vision got enough hype. He has an amazing ability to read the play.

On the PP discussion, I’d try Girard on the top unit if you want to make a big change. I’ve been pounding that idea forever lol. What’s making the second unit go is Girard, I think he has the primary play on four of their five goals. His play from that left side is a relevation and if you couple that with Makar up high on the right, could be magic. Yeah PP1 has a few goals but a lot came in the StL blow out and we’ve already seen PP1 drying up for the entirety of a close game. Having a productive PP2 is nice to have in your back pocket but the bulk of your ice time and talent goes into PP1. If they want to make a small change I agree see if Nuke and his big rear can help out net front on PP1.

Byram will get PP looks in due time, Bednar said he was going to sit in on all the special teams meetings. So for this year unless there’s an injury need I don’t think he sees PP1 and that’s ok. Even if he starts working on pp2 that’s cool.

 

[LTC Pain]

Smoke'em BB!

 

[Avs9296]

Ya I'm about ready for going 2 D on both PP units.

Kadri can control PP2 since he does absolutely zero on PP1. Also that takes off Donskoi or Compher from PP2 who should not be anywhere near a powerplay.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Ya I'm about ready for going 2 D on both PP units.

Kadri can control PP2 since he does absolutely zero on PP1. Also that takes off Donskoi or Compher from PP2 who should not be anywhere near a powerplay.

The reason why most teams go with 1 dman on the PP is because they only have 1 or 2 capable dman who can QB and those dman get split between the units. The Avs have 3 dman who can legit run a PP and 4 if you include Byram. You wont be losing offense by having Bo, Makar on one unit and Girard and Toews on another which I imagine is the fear with having 2 dman on the PP.

 

[McJedi]

Girardo was sick last night. His assist was nearly as good as Byrams. all three of our goals last night were really scored by the defenders that did 80+% of the work/skill.

I’m so damn impressed by Sam. He’s found a new level to his game. His passing has been sublime.

if our middle six forwards get their ish together at some point, we’ll be insanely good.

 

[hockeydog23]

There's a huge talent discrepancy between the two units. Nuke, Donskoi and Compher generating as much offense as MacK, Rantanen and Landeskog isn't exactly a positive. That top unit isn't crap, but it's never been as dangerous as the talent would imply it should be.

Nuke, Donskoi and Compher have 1 ppg between them, compared to 5 by the top line forwards, reflecting the talent discrepancy you're talking about. Seems like everyone on here needs to keep some perspective on the Avs power play. It's killing it so far. Their depth forwards non-existent 5 v 5 production is what's worrisome.

 

[AvsFan29]

Nuke, Donskoi and Compher have 1 ppg between them, compared to 5 by the top line forwards, reflecting the talent discrepancy you're talking about. Seems like everyone on here needs to keep some perspective on the Avs power play. It's killing it so far. Their depth forwards non-existent 5 v 5 production is what's worrisome.

The powerplay has been good for sure, but if you drop Kadri to PP2, and add Byram, it will be better. Kadri would also bump Compher which is another plus.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Yeah, the power play will only be able to carry production for so long.

Once it falls off the Avs need their 5v5 play to be much better. I have a hard time believing that some of those guys in the bottom-9 will continue to be so bad.

 

[Richard88]

Nuke, Donskoi and Compher have 1 ppg between them, compared to 5 by the top line forwards, reflecting the talent discrepancy you're talking about. Seems like everyone on here needs to keep some perspective on the Avs power play. It's killing it so far. Their depth forwards non-existent 5 v 5 production is what's worrisome.

The 2nd PP unit is ALL Girard and Toews. The other guys are just manikins.

That said, the PP2 unit will look a whole lot more dangerous soon once Byram is added to the PP units

------------------ Nichuskin -----------
Byram/Kadri ------------ Burakovsky
--------- Girard --------- Toews -------

Either Byram bumps Kadri off PP1, or he takes a place on PP2. Either way, Compher/Donskoi shouldn't see much PP time from now on with a healthy lineup.

 

[Matt Roberts]

Nuke, Donskoi and Compher have 1 ppg between them, compared to 5 by the top line forwards, reflecting the talent discrepancy you're talking about. Seems like everyone on here needs to keep some perspective on the Avs power play. It's killing it so far. Their depth forwards non-existent 5 v 5 production is what's worrisome.

But the unit has been equally productive. And that's because Girard and Toews have been more active, with Nuke screening in front creating scoring chances. If they'd utilize the first unit in the same (or similar) way, there's a good chance they would be more effective too.

 

[hoserthehorrible]

If Byram goes on the 1st PP unit it obviously wouldn't be to play the net-front role.

Right now we have Kadri and Landeskog in the slot area, and since the net front responsibility is split between them neither of them actually does that job the same way Nichuskin does.

What adding Byram for Kadri does is that it forces Landeskog to be less involved in the actual passing plays, and instead makes him the sole net front presence so that he focusses 100% on that instead of trying to play pitch-and-catch with Mackinnon.

Parking Landeskog in front would also create more freedom for Rantanen to move around more. Right now the tendency is for Landeskog to occupy the spot next to the net on the goalline on Rantanen's side, so that kinda forces Rantanen to be static in that position rather than roaming closer to the goal line. Rantanen's passing and vision from behind the net is a real weapon, but we never see it on the PP because Landeskog is there.

As an added benefit this setup with Landeskog in front of the net instead of at the goal line would mean that we never have to see that awful play Landeskog tends to do where he receives a pass from Rantanen and turns around and tries to jam it through the goalies pads. It never works.

I think we're basically saying the same thing.

Byram isn't going to be the front of the net guy himself is what I mean so they'd have to reconfigure the 1st PP. Byram and Makar on the blue line, Mac on the left side, Rants on the right side, and Landeskog in front seems like it could work well.

I suppose this might also strengthen the 2nd PP unit a bit too because Kadri could replace Compher or Donskoi. When Bura is back they could roll with Nuke in front, Bura on the right, Kadri on the left, and stay with G and Toews on D.

Two effective PP units would be a huge advantage now and in the playoffs.

 

[The Kingslayer]

The 2nd PP unit is ALL Girard and Toews. The other guys are just manikins.

That said, the PP2 unit will look a whole lot more dangerous soon once Byram is added to the PP units

------------------ Nichuskin -----------
Byram/Kadri ------------ Burakovsky
--------- Girard --------- Toews -------

Either Byram bumps Kadri off PP1, or he takes a place on PP2. Either way, Compher/Donskoi shouldn't see much PP time from now on with a healthy lineup.

Kadri in that spot simply doesnt work. It didnt work last season and it still doesnt work. Mackinnon cant pass to him in that spot and on the off chance he can Kadri flubs the shot or the puck gets lost in his feet. Colin Wilson was a MUCH better bumper player and I despised Wilson there. Adding another d man on that top unit is not going to hurt them in the least especially if it means removing Kadri off it. Landeskog can take draws on the left and Mack on the right or hell let Kadri take the draws and come off right after haha.

 

[Pokecheque]

One of the big hangups of the top unit is movement. It's what always leads to them going into prolonged droughts. When they move around and make defenses move to try and cover them, they're mostly effective. When they just stand there and pass around the perimeter, they're easy to defend.

Girard is pulling PKers toward him when he collapses down low and it's opening things up. Helps that he's been able to thread passes to guys like Toews and Donskoi almost perfectly. I don't expect that to last, at some point the opposition will figure some things out, but it's working right now.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Of course they’ll scout those plays and Girard will make a different one. The Ducks already followed Toews the other night and Girard will take what’s given and work with it. Counting on the likes of Donskoi to convert on it is the part that won’t last lol

 

[Richard88]

Of course they’ll scout those plays and Girard will make a different one. The Ducks already followed Toews the other night and Girard will take what’s given and work with it. Counting on the likes of Donskoi to convert on it is the part that won’t last lol

It's reminiscent of how teams were going to eventually figure out how to deal with Girard's spin move.

 

[McMetal]

It's reminiscent of how teams were going to eventually figure out how to deal with Girard's spin move.

They literally never will. I believe he actually times the spin move to coincide with a player being either midstride or leaning the wrong way, so they simply can't adjust properly. He often takes a quick shoulder check right before he pulls it just to make sure they're off balance. It's an incredible skill.

 

[Avsboy]

Girard has stronger legs this season. Not only faster, but when the opposing team players try to body him before his spin, he simply holds them off and spins anyway. Last season it was possible to body him, but now it's become more difficult.

 

[The Kingslayer]

They literally never will. I believe he actually times the spin move to coincide with a player being either midstride or leaning the wrong way, so they simply can't adjust properly. He often takes a quick shoulder check right before he pulls it just to make sure they're off balance. It's an incredible skill.

This is where him being his size works to his advantage. That puck is in tight aswell which makes it that much more difficult to defend against.

 

[Metallo]

I think PP1 should be

Mack and Mikko on the half-boards
Nuke net front
Landy bumper
Makar up top

PP2
Kadri net front
Saad and Bura on the boards
Girard and Toews up top

Maybe Kadri/Saad can switch places.

 

[AvsFan29]

I think PP1 should be

Mack and Mikko on the half-boards
Nuke net front
Landy bumper
Makar up top

PP2
Kadri net front
Saad and Bura on the boards
Girard and Toews up top

Maybe Kadri/Saad can switch places.

Forgot Byram

 

[hockeydog23]

But the unit has been equally productive. And that's because Girard and Toews have been more active, with Nuke screening in front creating scoring chances. If they'd utilize the first unit in the same (or similar) way, there's a good chance they would be more effective too.

But the unit has been equally productive. And that's because Girard and Toews have been more active, with Nuke screening in front creating scoring chances. If they'd utilize the first unit in the same (or similar) way, there's a good chance they would be more effective too.

I hope you're right about the first unit being even more effective. I just think its unrealistic to expect even the best pp in the league to be substantially better than the current ppg per game pace the second unit is currently putting up--last year the entire team didn't average a ppg per game. Second unit will come back to reality, and I'd be ecstatic to see the first unit continue to average its current ppg per game. The notion that anything is wrong with the first unit is misplaced IMO. Hope I'm wrong and we keep seeing Girard to Toews with a Nuke screen on a regular basis!

 

[hockeydog23]

Complete contrast to Makar who would have likely deferred to Mackinnon. Byram being the cocky hot shot rookie he is couldnt care less to look off the MVP. I loved it. I wish Makar was more like that instead of always looking for big brother Nathan

I also want to see Makar be more aggressive sometimes, but... deferring to Mackinnon is tough to criticize too much. Avs have too much skill for one puck! Need to zero in on finding next Tom Wilson (did I just say that, I can't stand that guy?!) in future drafts.

Watching Byram make plays in the NHL he regularly made in WHL and world juniors was a thing of beauty Friday night! Can't wait for more. Giddy.

 

[Matt Roberts]

I hope you're right about the first unit being even more effective. I just think its unrealistic to expect even the best pp in the league to be substantially better than the current ppg per game pace the second unit is currently putting up--last year the entire team didn't average a ppg per game. Second unit will come back to reality, and I'd be ecstatic to see the first unit continue to average its current ppg per game. The notion that anything is wrong with the first unit is misplaced IMO. Hope I'm wrong and we keep seeing Girard to Toews with a Nuke screen on a regular basis!

I'm not really evaluating effectiveness based on the early season sample. I'm simply trying to point out that the movement in that 2nd unit creates scoring opportunities that we often don't see in the first unit. But big picture, we've seen the PP1 become very passive and perimeter oriented at times with no adjustments. I simply want to see them adjust, find ways to create space and become even more dangerous. When you roll out possibly the most talented unit in the league 1 through 5, expectations are high. That shouldn't be viewed as a bad thing.